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Coaching 'em Up; Let's Discuss the Best and Worst Coaching Staffs in the SEC this year
Topic Started: Nov 27 2013, 11:12 AM (272 Views)
*OrangeRev
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Tree hug'n, bleed'n heart, lazy luv'n, global warm'n token liberal

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Using the OrangeRev proprietary talent system (really just a weighted class strength from Rivals), I present to you the above graphic showing the on-the-field talent versus the standings and record of the teams. I also give you the opponent wins or losses of the Vols.

So, which coaching staffs are doing a good job with their talent? Which are doing well and which are failing ... perhaps miserably?

My observations:
  • Pinkel is coach of the year. No question. He should be 2-6 this year with his talent, yet he has eeked out 5 more wins. I remember thinking at the first of the year that this was going to be a definite win for Tennessee ... but ... nope.
  • A close second to Pinkel is Franklin, and given the fact that he has the absolute worst talent on the field in the SEC I could see him being coach of the year. Seriously, no one would blame him for being 0-8 with that talent ... yet, he has managed 4 wins, including embarrassing Florida in the swamp and Tennessee in Neyland.
  • Malzahn is doing with Auburn exactly what he should be doing ... he is not crafting miracles, but simply winning like he should because he has the 3rd best talent in the SEC. Chizik was a horrid coach.
  • No coach does less with more than Muschamp. I don't care that he has had lots of injuries, because with talent like that, his 2's and 3's are better than most team's 1's and 2's.
  • And, of course Butch Jone's staff also looks quite poor. We might blame this on first year SEC-shock, or the constant revolving door of coaches over the last few years in Knoxville, creating confusion with players. Regardless, considering his talent at hand, he should not have been the caboose of first year coaches. Jones should have been 4-4 in his first year at Tennessee.


Edited by OrangeRev, Nov 27 2013, 11:53 AM.
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BJVOL III
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Rev
Do you ever learn! Tennessee was operating with a third string quarterback who was a true freshman. Quarterback is the most important position in football. That in itself would negate talent levels. How did the other teams schedules compare with Tennessee? There are so many factors that figure in when comparing teams. How many stars players had when they entered Tennessee is immaterial now. Many didn't live up to expectations and you can't always blame the coaches. I think you're just trying to build a case against Jones.
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*OrangeRev
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Tree hug'n, bleed'n heart, lazy luv'n, global warm'n token liberal

I'm not building a case against Jones ... I am trying to understand why we are 1-6 in the SEC. I'll admit that I'm disappointed in Jones' ability to coach and scheme, but mostly because I've suffered with Dooley's ineptness in that department for years, and this was my greatest hope for Jones. Perhaps what Jones lacks in game-day coaching ability, he can make up for in team chemistry and recruiting - these seem to be major strengths with him.

Still, I think I specifically was able to articulate why Jones is where he is. But let me look more specifically at four losses that could/should be wins based on talent/coaching.

  • Missouri - Pinkel is spanking the SEC this year. He is the daddy not only of Jones, but of many other coaches ... on talent, we should have won that game, but we lost because Pinkel is a better coach (at least this year). I mean, let's call it for what it is. Pinkel is a better coach.
  • Florida - Our talent is not better Florida. The only way we win those games is if Jones out-coaches them ... and Florida didn't know how bad their coach was at the first of the year, so they still had swagger. Now, I think Jones is a better coach than Muschamp ... wait, let me rephrase that ... Jones is a MUCH BETTER COACH than Muschamp. But Jones made a crucial mistake in keeping Peterman in MUCH longer than he should have. Hopefully he won't make that mistake again. We will beat Florida next year.
  • Georgia - Our talent is not better than UGA, but we are really close. I wouldn't have expected Jones to win in his first year against Georgia simply because Richt has "his" people and a steady system in place. We are still in transition, but I think the near-even talent level and the close game tells me that Richt will be losing to Jones very shortly. I think we beat Georgia next year.
  • Vanderbilt - Franklin is a much better coach than Jones. I don't know any other way to state that, and he is recruiting at a level that tells me that the next couple of years will be losses to Vandy as well (unless Franklin bolts for a better program). Franklin can turn crap into perfume ... lead into gold ... Miley into a virgin.


That said, Tennessee should ride Kentucky this weekend like a beat mule. Stoops has not demonstrated that he can out-coach anyone.
Edited by OrangeRev, Nov 27 2013, 11:48 AM.
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Tnphil


Franklin has been there 3 years and he's a better coach than Butch???!!! Who ass-raped us last year and we had 4 NFL players playing on offense that Butch didn't have this game and thy beat us by 4? We were playing a 4th string true freshman and our best WR went out in the first quarter. Wonder how Franklin would looked if he was down to his 4th string QB and Matthews was out?????

Folks are trying to make up for supporting Dooley so long. Vandy had better beaten us this year because it's about to end real quick...When Butch gets his players it will be over.

This was the worst UT team on both sides of the ball I can ever remember...maybe...maybe the team Majors took over from Battle was worse but not by much.
Edited by Tnphil, Nov 27 2013, 12:15 PM.
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*OrangeRev
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Tnphil
Nov 27 2013, 12:08 PM
Franklin has been there 3 years and he's a better coach than Butch???!!! Who ass-raped us last year and we had 4 NFL players playing on offense that Butch didn't have this game and thy beat us by 4? We were playing a 4th string true freshman and our best WR went out in the first quarter. Wonder how Franklin would looked if he was down to his 4th string QB and Matthews was out?????

Folks are trying to make up for supporting Dooley so long. Vandy had better beaten us this year because it's about to end real quick...When Butch gets his players it will be over.

This was the worst UT team on both sides of the ball I can ever remember...maybe...maybe the team Majors took over from Battle was worse but not by much.
Dooley was a terrible game-day coach - I've never thought otherwise (though I kept hoping things would change). Franklin is a great game-day coach. Franklin was a great coach even in his first year when he took anemic talent that could only get 2 wins a year, and he took them bowling. If Franklin gets an opportunity to coach at a premier school, he will win a national championship. He is that good of a coach.

Because of Dooley, I'm not going to let my hope cloud the facts. Jones has to show me. Maybe that's unfair to Jones, but it is where I am at. We have a lot of talent on this team ... and if you cannot see that our coaching/schemes are ineffective in the SEC this year, then you aren't looking at the facts but rather at hope. This isn't merely a talent issue. We are losing to coaches with vastly inferior talent.

Perhaps Jones will demonstrate next year that he is an above average game-day coach - I have no idea what the future will look like - but there is no way in the world that the evidence on the table from the 2013 season can create optimism. A great game-day coach can do what Franklin has done at Vandy. He is doing everything right over there.
Edited by OrangeRev, Nov 27 2013, 12:36 PM.
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Tnphil


Vandy

2011 wins :Elon, losing record, UConn, losing record, Ole Miss, losing record, Army, losing record, Ky, losing record, Wake Forest, losing record.

2012 wins: Presbyterian, losing record, Mizzou, losing record, Auburn, losing record, UMass, losing record, KY, losing record, Ole Miss, .500 record, UT, losing record, Wake Forest, losing record, NCState, 7-6 record.

2013 wins: Austin Peay, losing record, Umass, losing record, UAB, losing record, Georgia, 7-4 (we know why), Florida, losing record (worst since 1979), KY, losing record, UT, losing record.....Plays Wake Forest this week, 4-7 record 2013, losing record.

And you're crowning Franklin a National Championship winning coach......O that's rich!!
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*OrangeRev
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Franklin has the weakest talent in the SEC, yet he has done something that Tennessee hasn't done since we won a national championship 15 years ago in 1998: beat both Georgia and Florida.

I don't know why you look down upon Franklin. Do you hate Vandy or giant-slayers?
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Hermitagevol


Franklin has done an outstanding job at Vanderbilt, but he inherited a roster loaded with 4-5 year players. Any coach that can have multiple winning seasons at Vanderbilt can coach. I just hate having to admit that too.
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Tnphil


OrangeRev
Nov 27 2013, 03:24 PM
Franklin has the weakest talent in the SEC, yet he has done something that Tennessee hasn't done since we won a national championship 15 years ago in 1998: beat both Georgia and Florida.

I don't know why you look down upon Franklin. Do you hate Vandy or giant-slayers?
Giant slayers??? Beating 2 teams in 3 years with a winning record is Giant slaying? So you're telling me Florida, Georgia when they beat them, the UT teams they beat the past 2 years are Giants??? :roflmao:
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Tnphil


OrangeRev
Nov 27 2013, 03:24 PM
Franklin has the weakest talent in the SEC, yet he has done something that Tennessee hasn't done since we won a national championship 15 years ago in 1998: beat both Georgia and Florida.

I don't know why you look down upon Franklin. Do you hate Vandy or giant-slayers?
Tell you what.....

Lets say Franklin is at Vandy and Butch is at UT for the next 4 years......I'll pay you $100.00 for each Vandy win in that 4 years and you pay me $100.00 for each UT win over the next 4 years.

You game?
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*OrangeRev
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Tnphil
Nov 27 2013, 03:45 PM
OrangeRev
Nov 27 2013, 03:24 PM
Franklin has the weakest talent in the SEC, yet he has done something that Tennessee hasn't done since we won a national championship 15 years ago in 1998: beat both Georgia and Florida.

I don't know why you look down upon Franklin. Do you hate Vandy or giant-slayers?
Tell you what.....

Lets say Franklin is at Vandy and Butch is at UT for the next 4 years......I'll pay you $100.00 for each Vandy win in that 4 years and you pay me $100.00 for each UT win over the next 4 years.

You game?
I think you are confusing me with someone who knows what the future will look like ... just a few posts ago, I said "I have no idea what the future will look like".

Regardless, even if Franklin optimizes Vandy, he's only good for 9-10 wins. And, who knows what Butch will do ... he just hasn't given us any indication this year that he is anything special with regard to coaching.
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BJVOL III
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Did you forget the Georgia and South Carolina games? The teams never quit in those games and he showed a lot of creativity, especially fourth downs. They had long term coaches while Joneses team was in his first year. They were someone else's players. If you think that talent and depth of Tennessee is equal to those two teams, you are mistaken. It doesn't matter how many stars these players hadwhen they entered Tennessee, they were not as talented as those two teams. Plus they were coached mostly by Dooley. There are so many factors to be taken in account when judging a first-year coach. I don't see you doing that.
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AtlantaVol


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Nov 28 2013, 07:46 AM
Rev
Did you forget the Georgia and South Carolina games? The teams never quit in those games and he showed a lot of creativity, especially fourth downs. They had long term coaches while Joneses team was in his first year. They were someone else's players. If you think that talent and depth of Tennessee is equal to those two teams, you are mistaken. It doesn't matter how many stars these players hadwhen they entered Tennessee, they were not as talented as those two teams. Plus they were coached mostly by Dooley. There are so many factors to be taken in account when judging a first-year coach. I don't see you doing that.
Rev is 100% correct here. Jones brought UT into game with Bammer, Missouri, Allbarn, and Candy that were NOT motivated and not really prepped. He had 2 weeks to get Dobbs ready to play better before the Candy game and he didn't do it. And don't go down the Drool's recruit road because Dobbs is a pure 100% Jones recruit. And don't go down the True FR road either because in the last 14 years we have see Clausen, Ainge, and Bray all play MUCH better as True FR than Dobbs did. And all of these guys were similar ratings coming out of High School. Dobbs played at a 6A GA High School which is big time High School FB. He shouldn't be playing this badly.

And then if you look at recruiting rankings then there is no way that UT should be playing for 14th place tomorrow in a 14 team league.
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*OrangeRev
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BJVOL III
Nov 28 2013, 07:46 AM
If you think that talent and depth of Tennessee is equal to those two teams, you are mistaken. It doesn't matter how many stars these players hadwhen they entered Tennessee, they were not as talented as those two teams.
I do believe our talent is on a par with USC and UGA, and I presented some slight evidence to support my position.

If you have something to the contrary, then that would be some great fuel for the discussion.

BJVOL III
 
There are so many factors to be taken in account when judging a first-year coach. I don't see you doing that.

Yes there are many factors. And, I'm not at a position of judging CBJ's effectiveness as the UT head coach yet. I am simply in a mode of disappointment about Jone's gameday and game scheming, simply because that was the main area that I was hoping to be an upgrade from Dooley.

Let me consider some other aspects of Jones, and compare that with Dooley:

Recruiting - A-
It is easy to get overwhelmed with the talent that is coming into the Vols next year and slap an A+ in this area for Jones, but many of those top notch players were legacies and had natural leans to Tennessee. I'll also admit that I'm still stinging from the critical mistake that Jones made with the top notch D-linemen that he pushed out the door with the 2012 class, and that keeps me from giving him a higher grade. Still, his 2013 class is not just highly rated, but it is addressing every deficiency to at least the 80% level. If he brings in Mosely for the O-line and Reed for the D-line, Jones hit a 99 yard TD pass with this class.

Dooley did a respectable job with recruiting as a whole, but his staff failed with multiple years at RB recruiting and linebacker recruiting ... they also took too many risks with D-back recruiting that didn't pan out. This probably goes straight to Dooley's problems with staffing.

Leadership - B
I think that Jones oozes with confidence and good leadership. I bet he puts on some great inspiring speeches to the players. I think it creates a strong bonding with the coaching staff and the players - it is contagious.

Dooley threw players under the bus, and coaches were fractured. He really failed in this area.

Staff Selection - C
I am giving Jones a grade of C here in the sense that the staff is just average, at least coming into the SEC. I think part of the problem with the staff is the laughable "best staff in America" comment he made at his intro presser. They may actually turn out to be better than a C, but so many SEC staffs are clearly better that it is hard to keep a straight face when thinking of the staff composition. At this point, I'm really impressed with S&T coach Lawson because our players look stronger than other teams in the fourth quarter. I've also been pleased with Thigpen (DB), Gillespie (RB), and Martinez (DB) based on coaching/recruiting. I'm not happy at all with Bajakian (OC), Jancek (DC), Azzani (WR) and Elder (TE/STC) ... unless Elder is the magic that turned around Palardy.

Dooley will always and forever get a failing grade in my book simply because of the Sunseri selection as a DC. I hated that decision from day 1, but never imagined it would be as bad as it was.

Game Day Coaching and Schemes - C

I don't know any better way to describe this than simply "average". The Vols staff is not getting the team to play beyond their talent level. Perhaps this will change in year 2, but right now it is just average ... ordinary ... pedestrian.

Dooley was the master of ordinary. In fact, I think his teams quit on him multiple times. Losing to Kentucky when they didn't even have a quarterback was an inexcusable failure of coaching.
Edited by OrangeRev, Nov 29 2013, 11:32 AM.
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BJVOL III
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Looks like you are endorsing Fulmer as a great motivator and a guy who upgraded high school recruits. I didn't realize that you were that high on him. Atlantavol, Rev, and Tux, perfect together!
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