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How Many Commitments In Class of 2014
Topic Started: Nov 11 2013, 08:47 AM (367 Views)
*TennesseeTuxedo
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It was brought up by a couple of posters on other sites that Butch may take over 40 commitments.

Of course, the SEC rule is that you can not sign more than 25 players signed between February and May and 85 total players on scholarship.

Then you have some current members of the team who may be leaving the program and some former players who have already left the program. The NCAA will allow you no more than 18 early enrollees.

We also could have a few gray-shirted prospects.

It all comes down to how many players leave the program…….

Could Orangerev or anyone else with knowledge verify if this is possible?
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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For the record, it is here say and I don;t understand how we could take that large of a class without harming the academic rating that we worked so hard to improve recently.
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el diablo
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TennesseeTuxedo
Nov 11 2013, 08:54 AM
For the record, it is here say and I don;t understand how we could take that large of a class without harming the academic rating that we worked so hard to improve recently.
They can take 30 total scholarships this year--25 this year, 5 will back count on last year. They can take 100 commits, can only except 30 scholarship players. Between not making grades, commits changing their minds and commits being encouraged to look elsewhere, it will be 30 in the end.

JCs will all be Jan admissions unless a CP shows up. It makes a big difference. I just saw our DL's SR and JR class--YIKES! That is why the JC's are so important there.

I don't know about harming academic ratings. Butch has a good record of academic achievement and Doug Matthews is very high on the new guy from Mizzou running the program. He has already made a big difference--see perfect score.
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*OrangeRev
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My math has us with 31 slots, but I believe one of those slots is going to Swafford, so that means (as El Diablo stated) that we have 30 slots.

What I think we are going to see heading into National Signing Day is many more than 30 verbal commitments. Every year, we go into NSD wondering who will be the players filling the remaining slots ... this year, I think we are going to go into NSD wondering which verbal commitments will not be signed.
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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I read somewhere that we will actually have 32 spots, as long as Swaufford gets his scholarship.
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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New this morning……
Quote:
 
So Hubbs thinks it is possible that some may not sign and LOI, but will have a spot held on the roster. Apparently this has been done on the basketball side recently.

Is it possible that some of the legacies can forgo the LOIs if they are promised a spot?

Hubbs doesn't seem to think that the 85 number will be a problem.

What some fans are referencing is that, if the players don't sign an LOI, technically there is no contract, but they can sign scholarship papers at a later date. Technically the spot isn't guaranteed. So I assume it doesn't count against your numbers.

The number to pay attention to, in that case, appears to be the AA 85 limit, which will not be a problem.
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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TennesseeTuxedo
Nov 15 2013, 09:59 AM
New this morning……
Quote:
 
So Hubbs thinks it is possible that some may not sign and LOI, but will have a spot held on the roster. Apparently this has been done on the basketball side recently.

Is it possible that some of the legacies can forgo the LOIs if they are promised a spot?

Hubbs doesn't seem to think that the 85 number will be a problem.

What some fans are referencing is that, if the players don't sign an LOI, technically there is no contract, but they can sign scholarship papers at a later date. Technically the spot isn't guaranteed. So I assume it doesn't count against your numbers.

The number to pay attention to, in that case, appears to be the AA 85 limit, which will not be a problem.
They count against the 25 for this year if they are considered an initial counter or "recruited" player. The post's below go over what is considered a recruited player.
Quote:
 
Important points:

Initial counters are capped at 25. Tennessee is going to back count 5 to last class, and will count 25 in this class. This much is, I believe, readily accepted and known.

But what is an "initial counter." Counters are normally any student-athlete who receives an athletic scholarship, partial or full. But in sports like football and basketball, counters also include any student-athlete who was recruited and who receives financial aid from the school. This is to prevent abuse by schools who might have "walk-ons" who were recruited then given "non-athletic" scholarships from the financial aid office.

So what is a recruited athlete? A recruited athlete is someone who takes an official visit to the campus, has in-person contact with a coach off-campus, or receives a National Letter of Intent or other written athletic scholarship offer. However, the following will not result in the NCAA considering a prospect a "recruited athlete": Coaches can evaluate prospects any number of times. Coaches can call prospects any number of times. Prospects can take unlimited unofficial visits to the campus. Coaches can make verbal scholarship offers to prospects. None of this would result in the athlete being "recruited."

Athletes who are not "recruited" can receive non-athletically related aid without restriction. I don't know if any of the commits can get any academic scholarships or other forms of aid, but I played a D1 sport on a full academic scholarship (actually got paid after all expenses) from the Lottery Scholarship and University Scholarship and no athletic scholarship. Who knows, with the increased cooperation between the athletic department and academics...

Another way, which I believe is the more likely way.

In football, an athlete generally counts as an initial counter in the academic year he first receives an athletic scholarship. The biggest exception is for midyear enrollees, where the school typically has some flexibility to push the initial counter back to the previous year. But there is a rarer exception that could help athletes enrolling at any time.


An athlete can be put on scholarship and not be counted as an initial counter until the following year if: He was not recruited(defined earlier) and he signs the scholarship after the start of fall practice.



The athlete would count against the limit of 85 overall scholarships that year. But he would not count against the 25 initial counters until the following year. Maybe this is why some guys are signing the financial aid agreements?



I would pay attention to any guys who don't take official visits.

More from the website athleticscholarships.net
Quote:
 
15.5.6.3.4 Nonrecruited Student-Athlete Receiving Institutional Financial Aid. [FBS/FCS] A student-athlete not recruited (per Bylaw 15.02.8) by the institution who receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) after beginning football practice becomes a counter but need not be counted as an initial counter until the next academic year if the institution has reached its initial limit for the year in question. However, the student-athlete shall be considered in the total counter limit for the academic year in which the aid was first received. (Revised: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

The question then becomes "How does Bylaw 15.02.8 define a recruited student athlete?" Here's what it says:

15.02.8 Recruited Student-Athlete. For purposes of Bylaw 15, a recruited student-athlete is a student athlete who, as a prospective student-athlete: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

(a) Was provided an official visit to the institution's campus;

(b) Had an arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with a member of the institution's coaching staff (including a coach's arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with the prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete's parents, relatives or legal guardians); or

(c) Was issued a National Letter of Intent or a written offer of athletically related financial aid by the institution for a regular academic term.


It may be important to note here that this definition was only added to Article 15 - Financial Aid in 2011. A definition already existed and is still included in Article 13 - Recruiting which appears to be much broader. Here's what it says.

13.02.13 Recruiting. Recruiting is any solicitation of a prospective student-athlete or a prospective student athlete's relatives (or legal guardians) by an institutional staff member or by a representative of the institution's athletics interests for the purpose of securing the prospective student-athlete's enrollment and ultimate participation in the institution's intercollegiate athletics program.



13.02.13.1 Recruited Prospective Student-Athlete. Actions by staff members or athletics representatives that cause a prospective student-athlete to become a recruited prospective student-athlete at that institution are: (Revised: 1/10/90, 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94, 1/10/05 effective 8/01/05)

(a) Providing the prospective student-athlete with an official visit; (Adopted: 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94)

(b) Having an arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with the prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete's parents, relatives or legal guardians; (Adopted: 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94)

(c) Initiating or arranging a telephone contact with the prospective student-athlete, the prospective student athlete's relatives or legal guardians on more than one occasion for the purpose of recruitment; or (Revised: 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94)

(d) Issuing a National Letter of Intent or the institution's written offer of athletically related financial aid to the prospective student-athlete. Issuing a written offer of athletically related financial aid to a prospective student-athlete to attend a summer session prior to full-time enrollment does not cause the prospective student-athlete to become recruited. (Adopted: 1/10/05 effective 8/1/05, Revised: 12/13/05)


The exclusion of language similar to 13.02.13 and item c) under 13.02.13.1 when determining what defines a recruited student athlete for the purposes of counter status seems significant. It appears as though an extremely carefully run recruitment with some understanding and participation by the prospect could potentially keep said prospect from being classified as a recruited student athlete under the 15.02.8 definition, thus delaying their initial counter status under 15.5.6.3.4
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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So why would the Vols take so many players in this class when we have the 2015 signing class to remember and worry about?

The thought process likely is this: Well all it does is eat into our 2015 scholarship limit of 25 and obviously they would count toward the 85 that year. But it is very likely that we are only going to be able to sign 20-22 in 2015 anyway due to the lack of seniors on next years roster.

So why not push 3 or 5 guys from this year toward that class, especially while recruiting is so hot? You can get them on roster and start developing those players.

If we bring in 30 something players this year then we can redshirt 15 or so of them and they would go towards that class anyway.
Edited by TennesseeTuxedo, Nov 15 2013, 10:04 AM.
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*OrangeRev
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I have no idea what they may do with LOIs, greyshirts, etc. ... at this point, I'm focused on the 85 limit, and we will have anywhere between 30 and 33 openings for next year.

Right now we have 82 on scholarship. (3)
We have 20 scholarships that are awarded to Seniors (20)
We have 1 Junior that will leave early, Richardson (1)
We have 5 red-shirt Juniors with scholarships that will not be back: Pair, Grieco, Toney, Clark, and Carter (5)
We have a walk-on with a complimentary scholarship that won't renew: Giampapa (1)
We average about 3 scholarship losses in the off-season: team rule violations, homesick, transfers. (3)
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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We now have 34 commitments. From the numbers that OrangRev posted, we are not going to be able to take all of them without paying some penalties.

So what happens? Do we take them all and accept penalties for oversigning? We sure could use better talent than we currently have. Are these guys worth accepting loss of scholarship penalties. I don't think so.

So what happens?

I believe that we ail see Dews gray-shirted.

There is talk of blue-shirting a couple of players. I don't know how much f that is wishful thinking and how much reality? I'm not going to put any stock in that notion anytime soon. I'll play Missouri mule on that one-show me.

The likely scenario is that we tell a few players that we are pulling our offer. That is difficult to do and it does harm your credence on the recruiting trail.

We will likely lose a player here and there who opt to go somewhere else.

We also could have a player or two not qualify and will have to go the JUCO or prep school route.
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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Here are guys that I do not see leaving the program and who's offers will stick:

* Jalen Hurd
* Todd Kelly Jr.
* Vic Wharton
* Evan Berry
* Elliot Berry
* Dillon Bates
* Neiko Creamer
* Coleman Thomas
* Daniel Helm
* Ray Raulerson
* Aaron Medley
* Dontavius Blair
* Jalen Hurd
* Derek Barnett
* Von Pearson
* Orlando Brown
* Ethan Wolf
* D’Andre Payne
* Joe Henderson
* Orlando Brown
* DaVonte Lambert
* Emmanuel Moseley
* Dewayne Hendrix
* Dimarya Mixon
* Cory Thomas
* Rashaaun Golden

The guys that concern me of recommitting, not making grades, or being recruited over include:
* Trayvon Paulk-(Gray-Shirt due to injury)
* Jerome Dews - (Gray-Shirt)
* Gavin Bryant (Grades or offer from Auburn or Bama)
* Chris Weathered - offer from Texas A&M on the table
* Cortez McDowell (Hearing he is not as firm as we would like)
* Kevin Mouhon - hearing he is not as firm as we would like
* Dominique Booth - possibly recruited over and could head elsewhere.

If we have 34 commitments and we lose the 7 players listed, it would drop us to 27 commitments.

Prospects still high on our wish list include:
* Josh Malone
* Adoree Jackson
* Charles Mosley
* Jarren Reed
* Calvin Heurtelou
* Avery Gennessey
* Darrell Williams
Edited by TennesseeTuxedo, Nov 24 2013, 08:37 PM.
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Sapientvol
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Nov 24 2013, 08:34 PM
Here are guys that I do not see leaving the program and who's offers will stick:

* Jalen Hurd
* Todd Kelly Jr.
* Vic Wharton
* Evan Berry
* Elliot Berry
* Dillon Bates
* Neiko Creamer
* Coleman Thomas
* Daniel Helm
* Ray Raulerson
* Aaron Medley
* Dontavius Blair
* Jalen Hurd
* Derek Barnett
* Von Pearson
* Orlando Brown
* Ethan Wolf
* D’Andre Payne
* Joe Henderson
* Orlando Brown
* DaVonte Lambert
* Emmanuel Moseley
* Dewayne Hendrix
* Dimarya Mixon
* Cory Thomas
* Rashaaun Golden

The guys that concern me of recommitting, not making grades, or being recruited over include:
* Trayvon Paulk-(Gray-Shirt due to injury)
* Jerome Dews - (Gray-Shirt)
* Gavin Bryant (Grades or offer from Auburn or Bama)
* Chris Weathered - offer from Texas A&M on the table
* Cortez McDowell (Hearing he is not as firm as we would like)
* Kevin Mouhon - hearing he is not as firm as we would like
* Dominique Booth - possibly recruited over and could head elsewhere.

If we have 34 commitments and we lose the 7 players listed, it would drop us to 27 commitments.

Prospects still high on our wish list include:
* Josh Malone
* Adoree Jackson
* Charles Mosley
* Jarren Reed
* Calvin Heurtelou
* Avery Gennessey
* Darrell Williams
You've got Jalen Hurd listed twice.

He could be worth two scholarships, but I would rather he just used one.

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*OrangeRev
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Again, Jerome Dews does not have a gray shirt offer. His offer is no different than any other player's offer. He specifically balked when Jones offered him a gray shirt initially, and committed only after that was removed.

Thus, Dews is either part of this class or he will be told to "look around". He will not be a gray shirt.
Edited by OrangeRev, Nov 25 2013, 09:57 AM.
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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http://s1.zetaboards.com/thevolunteeronline/single/?p=401132&t=5167803
Quote:
 
Couldn't agree more from moving on, but nonetheless, it was always a possibility he would grey-shirt, that was from the staff, there wasn't anything shady, Jerome always knew that was possible, IMO they were waiting on some others to commit which was fine, business is business, because he was not on their radar is why i think they wanted to make room for him. And him saying he is better than a grey shirt, was a kid not understanding the opportunity being afforded to him at the time, sure he has other options, options that may not mean much to some of you, but its big to him, he chose to go with the best staff/program, the best opportunity and the best situation for Jerome, whether it be 2014 or 2015, god willing, Mr Dews will be relocating to Knoxville!!!
- This is reportedly Jerome Dews father's remarks regarding gray-shirting.
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*OrangeRev
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OK ... well, let me remove internet speculation that often clouds the facts and connect you with a real reference. Here's the quote from the Washington Post that I base my opinion upon:

Quote:
 
Potomac Coach Ronnie Crump said Tennessee initially could not guarantee a slot in the 2014 class and last week had offered a grayshirt arrangement in which Dews would join the 2015 class. But on Monday night, Head Coach Butch Jones, defensive coordinator John Jancek and linebackers coach Tommy Thigpen called to assure him that a linebacker spot in the 2014 class would be available and Dews quickly accepted.








Edited by OrangeRev, Nov 25 2013, 10:35 AM.
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