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Is It Time To End The Bama-UT Series?
Topic Started: May 24 2013, 07:49 AM (353 Views)
*TennesseeTuxedo
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http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2013/05/time_for_the_sec_to_take_away.html#incart_river

Is it time to end the series with Bama? Traditions have ended in Texas with Texas A&M and Texas University no long playing one another. Oklahoma and B=Nebraska no long er play one another. Pitt and Penn State stopped their series.

The Vols have to play a murderous schedule to win the SEC east. However, Georgia plays a soft conference schedule that would be the envy of every SEC team in the league.
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humbletx


TennesseeTuxedo
May 24 2013, 07:49 AM
http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2013/05/time_for_the_sec_to_take_away.html#incart_river

Is it time to end the series with Bama? Traditions have ended in Texas with Texas A&M and Texas University no long playing one another. Oklahoma and B=Nebraska no long er play one another. Pitt and Penn State stopped their series.

The Vols have to play a murderous schedule to win the SEC east. However, Georgia plays a soft conference schedule that would be the envy of every SEC team in the league.

The Alabama vs Tennessee (FWIW now days its a cross divisional game, nothing more nothing less) Losing to Alabama does impact Tennessee challenging for the SECE championship, none the less the Vols still need to beat Florida, Georgia, South Carolina.

Replace Alabama -with - you pick the team - Auburn, Ole Miss Mississippi State, Arkansas, Texas A&M, or LSU...

The ones that jump out, using historical data would be the Mississippi schools and Arkansas - LSU and then the Alabama programs. With the expanded SEC - and the dominating SECW - its almost pick your poison..

FWIW - when you've been so out in front with "expansion" toots - OU vs NU - Big 8 to the Big 12. UTA vs A&M - A&M moves to the SECW.. One word "money"

All you 2%ers need to quit whining about a game - The Ags are now a dominating program in the powerhouse SECW - soon to have the largest - and state of the art - stadium in the SEC - its a good thing.
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BJVOL III
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The SEC East was the most dominate SEC division at one time. The West is now. That will change too!
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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My belief is that you have to put a major emphasis on beating the teams in your own division. A loss in your division is like losing two games.
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humbletx


TennesseeTuxedo
May 24 2013, 08:58 AM
My belief is that you have to put a major emphasis on beating the teams in your own division. A loss in your division is like losing two games.
And that means beating Georgia and Florida - and of recent vintage South Carolina.

Missouri, Kentucky, Vanderbilt.

Cross divisional games do have impact - especially when ESPN moves the SEC to a 9 game conference schedule..
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*Zippy
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Burning Man, 2009 FOREVER

None of us old guys think it should end. Younger guys probably dont really understand why older generation(s) are so attached to it.

So short answer: maybe. It's always been a streaky series anyway.
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Tnphil


I'm a 6 decade Vol fan and I've said for the last several years we shouldn't be playing Bama every year....Right now there is a 90% chance we have to play Bama twice to win the SECC...Name another school in the country that has to do that?

Add the fact we play FL, Ga, SOS lead SC and round robin with LSU and Auburn.

The SEC is the toughest conference on the planet and we make it harder on ourselves by playing them every year....When FL, Ga, USCe start playing them every year then ok...until then we are not playing on a even playing field with the other teams in the SECE.
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humbletx


Tnphil
May 24 2013, 10:25 PM
I'm a 6 decade Vol fan and I've said for the last several years we shouldn't be playing Bama every year....Right now there is a 90% chance we have to play Bama twice to win the SECC...Name another school in the country that has to do that?

Add the fact we play FL, Ga, SOS lead SC and round robin with LSU and Auburn.

The SEC is the toughest conference on the planet and we make it harder on ourselves by playing them every year....When FL, Ga, USCe start playing them every year then ok...until then we are not playing on a even playing field with the other teams in the SECE.
Well - replace the Alabama game - with LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, Arkansas, MSU - how would things dramatically change in the win/loss column?

Specifically Tennessee needs to take both Alabama and Florida off its annual scheduling.. Now, has Florida dominated the Tennessee game since the expansion to 12 teams - going back to the decade where Tennessee was wining SEC championships - from 92 till the turn of the century - 7 losses. When Florida hasn't been good - they've found a way to win the head to head match-up - its been how many years since Tennessee beat UF?

FWIW - I'm tossing the one of the new comers from the Big 12 for a reason.

Everyone understands the SEC is the toughest conference on the face of the planet - considering the Aggies were nothing more than a .500 team in that conference. Its a tough, tough deal - going on the road week after week and playing SEC teams. Talks with a number of the players from last year - and some of the recruits from the 2013 - seems they all understand the lumps and lickings the Aggies took from the SEC teams in 2012 - and know they have to improve to be competitive in 2013 and on down the road.

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*Zippy
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Burning Man, 2009 FOREVER

Florida is a different game, they are in our division...dont have to beat them twice to win the SECC (as if that was a concern right now anyways...).

That would be my preferred solution, btw. Send Georgia west, and bring Alabama to the east.
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/64641/debating-cross-divisional-rivalries-in-the-sec

Chris Low feels that the rivalry will be saved. If you read the boards of the newcomers, A&M, and Mizzou, they are not happy about those rivalries being saved.

It is a shame that under the current format that we could only see some teams in Neyalnd Stadium, once ever 20 years or so.
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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Quote:
 
Tony Barnhart ‏@MrCFB 1h
LSU athletic director Joe Alleva says he will keep fighting to eliminate permanent crossovers in SEC. "I'm just fighting for fairness."
LSU has been belly-aching because they have to play Florida every year as a crossover rival game. wimps.
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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http://mrsec.com/2013/05/schedule-debate-even-recent-history-shows-you-cant-predict-schools-future-success/
Quote:
 
Last week, we called the chatter to dump permanent cross-division rivals in the SEC “shortsighted.” Aside from Joe Alleva and Les Miles at LSU, most everyone else clamoring for a change in the SEC’s scheduling format has been doing so based on recent history and the belief that we all know who’s going to be good and who’s going to be bad from year to year.

Specifically, Tennessee — one of the 10 winningest programs in college football history — was targeted as being such a lame duck that it’s permanent rival, Alabama, is guaranteed a conference cakewalk each and every season moving forward.

We attempted to show everyone that league records have varied greatly over the last 20 years, but some still refused to buy into the logic we were selling. So we’ve decided to dig a little deeper. This time, we focused only on the last 10 SEC football seasons (which is really as far back as you need to go to realize none of us have any idea of who’ll rise or fall in a given season). Here’s what we found:



* Over the last 10 years (2003-2012), only four schools have finished 6-2 or better in league play at least half the time: LSU eight times, Georgia seven times, Alabama and Florida five times

* Of those four schools, each finished with a losing conference mark at least once during the last 10 years

* Not a single SEC school has finished with a winning conference record in each of the last 10 seasons

* Not a single SEC school has finished with a losing conference record in each of the last 10 seasons

* Over the last five years (2008-2012), not a single SEC school has finished 6-2 or better in all five years

* Only one SEC school (Alabama) even finished with a winning record in each of the last five SEC seasons

* Only one SEC school (Kentucky) finished with a losing record in each of the last five SEC seasons

* LSU is the only SEC school to have finished 6-2 or better in each of the last three seasons

* In the five years prior (2003-2007), only one SEC school (LSU) finished 6-2 or better in all five seasons

* Only two SEC schools (LSU and Auburn) finished with winning records in all five of those seasons

* Only one SEC school (Vanderbilt) finished with a losing record in all five of those seasons



Rise. And fall.

Fall. And rise.

If you need further proof, consider how many times over the last 10 years a school has seen its conference record jump or fall by two or more victories in back-to-back seasons:



Kentucky (2), South Carolina (3), Georgia (4), LSU (4), Mississippi State (4), Tennessee (4), Arkansas (5), Auburn (5), Vanderbilt (5), Alabama (6), Florida (6), Ole Miss (6)



Alabama and Florida — the two schools most often penciled in as consistent powers — have had more major gains and losses (along with Ole Miss) than any other SEC programs over the past decade.

Let’s give you yet another way of looking at things. Over the past 10 years, here’s how many times a school finished with the same exact conference record in back-to-back years:




Alabama twice (8-0 in 2008 and 2009, 7-1 in 2011 and 2012)

Arkansas once (6-2 in 2010 and 2011)

Auburn never

Florida never

Georgia twice (6-2 in 2003, 2004 and 2005, 7-1 in 2011 and 2012)

Kentucky twice (1-7 in 2003 and 2004, 2-6 in 2010 and 2011)

LSU once (6-2 in 2006 and 2007)

Mississippi State once (1-7 in 2005 and 2006)

Ole Miss never

South Carolina twice (3-5 in 2006 and 2007, 6-2 in 2011 and 2012)

Tennessee once (1-7 in 2011 and 2012)

Vanderbilt once (1-7 in 2003 and 2004)



Out of 108 opportunities for schools to finish with the same record in back-to-back years, it happened just 13 times. So you still think the team that’s good this year will be just as good next year?

There’s perception and there’s reality.

The perception is that certain SEC schools are always good and the schedule should be adjusted to reflect the current steady state of the league.

The reality is that there are many more ups and downs across the entire SEC than we choose to admit and it would be utter folly to attempt to reconfigure the schedule based on three-, five-, or even 10-year cycles.

The safest bet is to base the schedule — meaning permanent cross-division rivals — on college football history. In this case, a 100-year sample is much more accurate than a short-term sample. Of course, that’s exactly how the SEC office and the league presidents matched up the current cross-division rivals back in 1992.

The bottom line is that there aren’t going to be enough votes in Destin this week to do away with permanent rivalries. Recent history dating back to 2008, 2003 or the early 199os shows why that’s a good and wise development.

LSU — and any schools backing the Tigers — will simply be jousting at windmills.
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*Zippy
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Tux: all of that is true, but somewhat misleading. I mean...it's prima facie that it is easier to have, say, Ms State as your cross division rival than Alabama; or Florida rather than Kentucky, etc. Which is the point here: it's not a question of complete fairness, it's whether or not the historic rivalries are important enough to offset the inherent unfairness to the somewhat random 'cross division rivals'.

For my part, I'd just as soon keep Alabama every year as not...but I'm not sure it's really important going forward. Particularly so if we end up with 'super conferences' outside the NCAA or something.
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*TennesseeTuxedo
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Myself, I couldd care less if ewe played Bama every year. Since we are playing divisional play, winning within your division is more important than anything else. Florida, South Carolina, Georgia are far more important than playing Alabama.
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Tnphil


humbletx
May 25 2013, 10:17 AM
Tnphil
May 24 2013, 10:25 PM
I'm a 6 decade Vol fan and I've said for the last several years we shouldn't be playing Bama every year....Right now there is a 90% chance we have to play Bama twice to win the SECC...Name another school in the country that has to do that?

Add the fact we play FL, Ga, SOS lead SC and round robin with LSU and Auburn.

The SEC is the toughest conference on the planet and we make it harder on ourselves by playing them every year....When FL, Ga, USCe start playing them every year then ok...until then we are not playing on a even playing field with the other teams in the SECE.
Well - replace the Alabama game - with LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, Arkansas, MSU - how would things dramatically change in the win/loss column?

Specifically Tennessee needs to take both Alabama and Florida off its annual scheduling.. Now, has Florida dominated the Tennessee game since the expansion to 12 teams - going back to the decade where Tennessee was wining SEC championships - from 92 till the turn of the century - 7 losses. When Florida hasn't been good - they've found a way to win the head to head match-up - its been how many years since Tennessee beat UF?

FWIW - I'm tossing the one of the new comers from the Big 12 for a reason.

Everyone understands the SEC is the toughest conference on the face of the planet - considering the Aggies were nothing more than a .500 team in that conference. Its a tough, tough deal - going on the road week after week and playing SEC teams. Talks with a number of the players from last year - and some of the recruits from the 2013 - seems they all understand the lumps and lickings the Aggies took from the SEC teams in 2012 - and know they have to improve to be competitive in 2013 and on down the road.

When Texas plays someone worth a shit other than Ok get back with me.
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