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To win games, UT must first win recruiting battles
Topic Started: Jul 28 2009, 07:19 AM (209 Views)
*TennesseeTuxedo
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To win games, UT must first win recruiting battles

Joe Biddle's main thrust of this column is what message boards are all about in the off-season. We must recruit well and improve the skills of the players we do get.

I have no doubt that this group of coaches will recruit well and will coach them up, as Biddle states as what they must do. So will our opponents coaching staffs.

The two questions in my mind are, "Just how deep is the hole that Phil Fulmer dug for the University of Tennessee football program?" and "How long will it take to dig out of that hole that Fulmer stuck the program in?"..
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AtlantaVol


TennesseeTuxedo
Jul 28 2009, 07:19 AM
To win games, UT must first win recruiting battles

Joe Biddle's main thrust of this column is what message boards are all about in the off-season. We must recruit well and improve the skills of the players we do get.

I have no doubt that this group of coaches will recruit well and will coach them up, as Biddle states as what they must do. So will our opponents coaching staffs.

The two questions in my mind are, "Just how deep is the hole that Phil Fulmer dug for the University of Tennessee football program?" and "How long will it take to dig out of that hole that Fulmer stuck the program in?"..
Answers:

1) Huge hole to dig out of. UT has simialr talent to kensucky, Arkansas, South Carolina, etc and a LOT less than UF, UGA, AL, LSU, etc. These teams are continueing to recruit in the Top 10 so will be hard to catch up.

2) Years- likely 3 and maybe up to 5 years. See above- the teams we are FAR behind in talent are still recruiting in the Top 10 or even Top 5. Hard to cacth up to them when they have such a huge headstart and are still recruiting well. That means UT MUST outcoach teams with better talent and win plenty of games when they have the short end of the talent stick. That is hard to consistently do and WIN games.

Bottom line is Fulmer screwed up UT FB for the foeseeable future IMO. It IS more exciting now simply because we are FINALLY fighting back against all the Fulmer doldrums but excitement is good for the fans yet doesn't win games.
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humbletx


TennesseeTuxedo
Jul 28 2009, 07:19 AM
To win games, UT must first win recruiting battles

Joe Biddle's main thrust of this column is what message boards are all about in the off-season. We must recruit well and improve the skills of the players we do get.

I have no doubt that this group of coaches will recruit well and will coach them up, as Biddle states as what they must do. So will our opponents coaching staffs.

The two questions in my mind are, "Just how deep is the hole that Phil Fulmer dug for the University of Tennessee football program?" and "How long will it take to dig out of that hole that Fulmer stuck the program in?"..
What Biddle and the babblin' horde miss - just plot the points buys...

Numbers - the top 10 recruiting states - 7 of them are easy pickin's for Tennessee - Georgia, Louisiana, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Mississippi, & Florida..

The numbers of Div1 signee's 394, 346, 295,165, & 159 - that is the top 5 states with Florida, Georgia and Ohio in the top 5..

Monitor the various instate rankings - then hone in the top 25/30.. That is where the heart of recruiting is found. How is/does Tennessee do, year in and out for the big dawgs in specific geographical regions..

Interesting note - and one IMO Tennessee should use JUCO's - California churns out the highest number of Div1 signees - 85 last year.. Its easier to sway a hired gun than a HSer and its a well established route to respectability if done correctly - al la Bill Snyder and KSU..

Another thing - schools that pulled in kids from all across the US in 09 - Boston College, Miami (Ohio), Notre Dame, Penn State, Stanford, Wyoming, Connecticut, North Carolina State, Northwestern, Colorado, Idaho, Kansas State, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, North Carolina, Oregon, Toledo, Wisconsin..


Schools that have won NC's in the 21st century - all are in states that rank in the top 10 with number of signees - Texas, Florida, California, Ohio (all are in the top 5) with Louisiana #6.

Another interesting question - what schools are considered national championship caliber - and have won NC's w/o having a huge instate recruiting base?
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gallavol
Cynical Idealist


" Another interesting question - what schools are considered national championship caliber - and have won NC's w/o having a huge instate recruiting base?"

Answer, Nebraska. They have won a number of NCs with a recruiting base much smaller than TN.
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AtlantaVol


gallavol
Jul 28 2009, 01:18 PM

" Another interesting question - what schools are considered national championship caliber - and have won NC's w/o having a huge instate recruiting base?"

Answer, Nebraska. They have won a number of NCs with a recruiting base much smaller than TN.
In no certain order:

1) TN- 1998
2) AL- bigger than TN but not a ton of talent. Was 1993 range
3) NE- several in 1990's and played for NC in 2001
4) OU- NC in 2000 range and played in several others
5) MI- 1997
6) ND- actually has been a long time

Another question is LACK of NC's despite big time recruiting base:

1) UGA- had NC way back nearly 30 years ago.
2) TX- had one a few years ago but was decades prior to that.
3) TX A&M
4) Tx Tech
5) UCLA
6) Pitt and Penn State
7) NC and NC State
8) UVA and Va Tech
9) Ga tech
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gallavol
Cynical Idealist

Ga Tech claims one in 1990 (shared with Colo). I would disagree with OU. Both OK schools have recruited Texas since the 1930s for talent, OU often has more Tx players on the roster than Ok players. They have relationships with Texas HSs that are decades old and strong.

Tn needs to establish new relationships with productive HS everywhere and improve existing one (Dallas Carter for example) if we are truely going to compete with the FLAs, UGAs, LSUs and ALAs of this world.
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AtlantaVol


gallavol
Jul 28 2009, 02:54 PM
Ga Tech claims one in 1990 (shared with Colo). I would disagree with OU. Both OK schools have recruited Texas since the 1930s for talent, OU often has more Tx players on the roster than Ok players. They have relationships with Texas HSs that are decades old and strong.

Tn needs to establish new relationships with productive HS everywhere and improve existing one (Dallas Carter for example) if we are truely going to compete with the FLAs, UGAs, LSUs and ALAs of this world.
I am not discounting the fact that TN puts out soooo few players. The points are:

1) As per the teams noted above- there is no guarantee of NC's if you are in a huge talent state nor is there an impossibility if you are in a state without much talent.

2) When you are in a state like TN that puts out MAYBE 15 quality Div 1 players a year THEN you had best get most of the Top 10 players and especially the Top 5 players. If you look at it, UT hasn't done this with TN players in MANY years under Fulmer nor did they do it this year with Kiffin. But Kiffin only had two months an he did get Gordon and Teague which the Fulmer boys would have NEVER gotten. But Jones, Allen, and Brown all went to SEC rivals and this must stop. This year we have already seen 2 of the Top 5 players commit to AL and LSU respectively. The Kiffin crew has a LOT of making up to do with the TN High School coaches who had come to really dislike the arrogance of Fulmer and crew.
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humbletx


AtlantaVol
Jul 28 2009, 02:24 PM
gallavol
Jul 28 2009, 01:18 PM

" Another interesting question - what schools are considered national championship caliber - and have won NC's w/o having a huge instate recruiting base?"

Answer, Nebraska. They have won a number of NCs with a recruiting base much smaller than TN.
In no certain order:

1) TN- 1998
2) AL- bigger than TN but not a ton of talent. Was 1993 range
3) NE- several in 1990's and played for NC in 2001
4) OU- NC in 2000 range and played in several others
5) MI- 1997
6) ND- actually has been a long time

Another question is LACK of NC's despite big time recruiting base:

1) UGA- had NC way back nearly 30 years ago.
2) TX- had one a few years ago but was decades prior to that.
3) TX A&M
4) Tx Tech
5) UCLA
6) Pitt and Penn State
7) NC and NC State
8) UVA and Va Tech
9) Ga tech
Nebraska in the 90's what a frekkin' powerhouse - now look at the area Warden Tom focused on recruiting wise that got him over the hump.

OU - better take a look at OU's recruiting base - DFW to Norman - the "cotton bowl' is just about smack dab in the middle Austin/Norman.. Also - HCBS is a mentor of B. Stoops - what worked at KSU works at OU. (OU in #12)

Alabama - comes in as #7 - solid top 10 recruiting state nationally.

Michigan - just outside the top 10 @ #11

Tennessee - #16 nationally






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humbletx


AtlantaVol
Jul 29 2009, 02:39 PM
gallavol
Jul 28 2009, 02:54 PM
Ga Tech claims one in 1990 (shared with Colo). I would disagree with OU. Both OK schools have recruited Texas since the 1930s for talent, OU often has more Tx players on the roster than Ok players. They have relationships with Texas HSs that are decades old and strong.

Tn needs to establish new relationships with productive HS everywhere and improve existing one (Dallas Carter for example) if we are truely going to compete with the FLAs, UGAs, LSUs and ALAs of this world.
I am not discounting the fact that TN puts out soooo few players. The points are:

1) As per the teams noted above- there is no guarantee of NC's if you are in a huge talent state nor is there an impossibility if you are in a state without much talent.

2) When you are in a state like TN that puts out MAYBE 15 quality Div 1 players a year THEN you had best get most of the Top 10 players and especially the Top 5 players. If you look at it, UT hasn't done this with TN players in MANY years under Fulmer nor did they do it this year with Kiffin. But Kiffin only had two months an he did get Gordon and Teague which the Fulmer boys would have NEVER gotten. But Jones, Allen, and Brown all went to SEC rivals and this must stop. This year we have already seen 2 of the Top 5 players commit to AL and LSU respectively. The Kiffin crew has a LOT of making up to do with the TN High School coaches who had come to really dislike the arrogance of Fulmer and crew.
Wrong - as usual - galla.. Tennessee does turn out enough players to develop a core for championship winning football.. Don't pull stuff outta the air - Tennessee, in 08 - 52 players signed Div1 scholarships..

What folks should do is look at the "productivity" of any schools recruiting class - 4 to 5 years down the road..

Example 2004 - X school - 19 signees
2008 5th year seniors - 8
4-year lettermen - 9
then things like top starters, all conference, all americans, etc..

Another - program - Texas Tech
2004 - 25 signees
2008 5th year seniors - 9
4 year lettermen - 9

Texas A&M - 2004 (Dennis Franchionne was the HC)
2004 - 28 signees 11 either never showed up or never lettered.

Now guarantee of NC's - how true - recruiting consistently year in and out leads to a winning program - year in and out. Tennessee has a decent top 20 in state recruiting base - compares favorably to OU. (60 from Oklahoma signed Div1 scholarships in 09 - Tennessee 52) Tennessee is borders 5 top 10 recruiting states - combined >350 09 signees... Toss in Florida and Louisiana for "cherry picking"



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gallavol
Cynical Idealist

Ah,,, not sure what you are saying I am wrong about hum. I think you are arguing with AV's Post maybe.
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