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What's your opinion about this presentation?; Mark Basile presents his scientific examination
Topic Started: Apr 11 2011, 03:10 PM (2,104 Views)
Partizan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ7hXrmMRPc


Brokenstyx?
Shure911?

What's your opinion about this?
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shure
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What's your opinion?

Partizan?



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Partizan

My opinion? It's disappointing that he couldn't get an access to DSC...

but it needs more attention from other scientists; "skeptics" should do these experiments for themselves; needs more verification.
All in all, M.Basile should publish his results in a respected scientific journal.
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shure
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I haven't had a chance to take a look at the video yet, but I will ;)
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A Storm is Coming

It's boring but educational

At 6:46, he states that the iron spheres could easily be caused by an electrical discharge but not by a fire

(Same as what I have been saying for years now)

So if there was aluminum in the paint on the beams, then the electrical short circuit caused by the plane slamming into the building and knocking out all the circuit breakers would have sent a buttload of current up through the beams, causing a thermitic reaction across the surface of each beam that the current flowed through and was also covered in Aluminum based paint

Now, Here is the test for you

paint a steel beam with Aluminum based paint and send 480 Volts AC through it while raising the current untill you see Iron Spheres created at the surface

Now measure that current and tell us how much lower it was than the buttload going through the beams at the WTC

;)

Its funny that he used an electrically heated metal strip to ignite the chip in his video because he may have recreated the actual conditions that caused the thermitic reactions at the WTC without even realizing it

:)
Edited by A Storm is Coming, Apr 12 2011, 03:21 PM.
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broken sticks
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Partizan
Apr 11 2011, 03:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ7hXrmMRPc


Brokenstyx?
Shure911?

What's your opinion about this?
i'll take a look partizan :)
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broken sticks
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First of all, the comparison to the "non-collapse" of the Windsor Tower, Madrid. This 29-storey building (not 47-storey as Mark Basile say, a possible confusion with WTC7?) was constructed completely differently to the WTC towers. The majority of the building had core columns encased in concrete. The section on top WITHOUT the concrete DID collapse. The majority of the building (with concrete-encased columns) did not.

Microspheres! Cool! Iron microspheres could have come from the welding together of the towers during their construction. (here is some welding to watch - note all the crap coming from the welder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p4tUj0EOGg). They could have come from the concrete (sounds strange, but look up fly-ash and its in there). They could have come from a thousand different natural sources in the contents of the towers. Steven Jones (whose work is cited here by Mark Basile) does nothing but cite the elements found in the dust. He does not compare these elements to elements found in other building fires and collapses.

He talks about the molten metal pouring from the impact floors of WTC2. We all know there was a UPS room there. It could have been the batteries from the UPS room. More likely though is that it is molten aluminium debris from the plane that would have gathered there from the crash. Basile states "molten metal doesn't glow yellow" but it does! See this graph: Posted Image

They haven't found thermite. They've found many elements that should have been found, and they never demonstrate that these elements shouldn't have been found.

The collapses started at the impact floors. Thermite here would have gone off prematurely, but it didn't. The inward-bowing of the perimeter at the impact level is the key to what happened. The steel trusses holding the floors up heated and sagged, pulling in the outer columns. When the connections gave way, the floor collapsed, and took out the floor below, and so on, and so on, and so on. The floors did NOT bear the weight of the building above, they merely held the columns together. No floors = nothing holding the columns in place = no structural rigidity. Once the floors started collapsing, the building was doooooomed.



So what did i make of the presentation? Not much dude. I thought the presentation itself was unorganised and if i was new to the subject it wouldn't have been very easy to follow. Given that i DO know a fair bit about the subject, i just think he's wrong in his beliefs and had a good go at sharing it with the public. It won't go very far, because people have worked out that all Steven Jones research has done is demonstrate various elements were in the dust. So what? He never compares his results to thermite, or nanothermite, or even dust from other natural building fires and building demolitions. He just says "hey, there's aluminium here! and iron! IT MUST BE THERMITE!" but science doesn't work like that in the real world.
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Matt
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Thanks for the video link. I liked seeing the alleged thermite/thermate chip ignite, at 41:40.

Brokensticks
 
Basile states "molten metal doesn't glow yellow"

At 22:15 he said, "it doesn't glow yellow. Molten aluminum doesn't glow yellow." Despite his photograph, I wonder. I also wondered about lead or other contents of the UPS batteries... see a thread on The 9/11 Forum. Summed up, molten lead can be ruled out.

I liked the detail he provided about the iron microspheres' chemical composition, at around 35:10, about the lack of manganese showing the vaporized iron in "the vast majority" of his samples was not from A36 structural steel. He is keen to point out that not all the steel in the towers was A36.

Yet this is A36:

Posted Image
That could have happened before or after the collapse.

Also fascinating was the detail of silicate spheres - glass - but magnetic. 32:20. I wondered about the lack of glass in the debris pile, and the 40% glass content of the WTC dust, myself....

About fly ash and welding arguments about microspheres, here's a debate: http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=70&MMN_position=186:186. That's what's called a shadow of a doubt.... What is interesting is that there were so many of these iron spheres in the dust that it became a matter of concern. Example, 9/13/2001 on ABC News.

Posted Image
- Steven Jones, et. al., "Extremely high temperatures during the World Trade Center destruction"

Posted Image

Thanks again for the video link.
Edited by Matt, Apr 12 2011, 10:29 PM.
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broken sticks
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Matt
Apr 12 2011, 10:27 PM
Brokensticks
 
Basile states "molten metal doesn't glow yellow"
oops, that should have said aluminium, not metal...
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Partizan

There was no microspheres before the DSC (ignition) test. After ignition test there was Fe-rich spheres (Fig. 21 Active thermitic.. paper)). How it is possible?
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A Storm is Coming

Partizan
Apr 15 2011, 04:38 PM
There was no microspheres before the DSC (ignition) test. After ignition test there was Fe-rich spheres (Fig. 21 Active thermitic.. paper)). How it is possible?
Phoney paper?

Who knows?

If its that important to you, figure it out

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broken sticks
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Partizan
Apr 15 2011, 04:38 PM
There was no microspheres before the DSC (ignition) test. After ignition test there was Fe-rich spheres (Fig. 21 Active thermitic.. paper)). How it is possible?
Apparently there are quite a variety of microspheres in the WTC dust. But then, 220-storeys of concrete, metal, wall, fireproofing, etc etc etc collapsed. Enormous amounts of this stuff got turned to dust when 30 storeys of building fell on one floor (did you know the floors didn't take the weight of the building at all? that was the columns' job - the floors just keep the columns rigid!), and then that floor just got crushed, then 31 storeys of building fell on the next floor but even quicker because it had lost almost no momentum from the previous floor. This happened for another 80 floors. Every ten floors or so massive sections of columns had nothing holding them in place and literally flop off the side of the building that is being completely smashed inside it. Some column sections were trapped by incredible forces and, like squeezing a toothpick between your finger and thumb, pinged out laterally.

Anyway, lots of stuff got smashed to dust. And a lot of building materials are only ever made out of dust in the first place. Enter: lots of elements you never knew was in s*** like drywall, insulation, fireproofing for all steel members, that kinda stuff. Even lightweight concrete has surprising ingredients! The fact that some of these will burn at 500 degrees or whatever Jones did in his unscientific experiment is not surprising at all. People really should be asking what Jones is comparing any of his results to. Have you seen comparisons to nanothermite? No. Have you seen comparisons to dust from other building demolitions, or even fires and/or partial collapses? No. They're not in that pay-to-peer-review paper. They've fooled a lot of people! Even if you don't believe me yet, you should remember to question the integrity of the ringleaders. Heck, question my integrity if you think i have anything riding on it! Architects & Engineers have hundreds of thousands of dollars riding on it. Maybe take the Jones paper to a specialist. I'll get round to it one day just to stop a lot of nice people getting fooled by the lies.


Err, sorry for the rant. He asked me though!
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