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| NLP, paradigm shift or pseudoscience? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 23 2010, 05:55 AM (700 Views) | |
| bristopen | Jul 23 2010, 05:55 AM Post #1 |
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Hello there, Recently, one of my friends told me that he’s attending some kind of NLP training program for self-improvement and so on. I remember a guy on television some years ago who made some amazing claims about what NLP can do to your brain, things that people with minimal intelligence will reject immediately! I tried to explain to the guy- who’s not an idiot – but it seems that he has been programmed! What are your opinions about NLP? Do you think it’s real science? Is it a paradigm shift in psychotherapy or an open laboratory for mind control? |
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| broken sticks | Jul 23 2010, 06:04 AM Post #2 |
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the problem for NLP as i see it is this: there's no reliable evidence that it works (conclusive studies etc). sure, it might help some people hypnotise themselves into having a happier life, but that's not how i roll. |
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| broken sticks | Jul 23 2010, 06:04 AM Post #3 |
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it also reminds me of scientology. |
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| shure | Jul 23 2010, 10:00 AM Post #4 |
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As far as I know NLP started with Richard Bandler and finds its roots in Milton Erickson hypnosis. The techniques try to access the subconscious mind to give suggestions. I believe there is something to it. A couple examples of people who use NLP are Alan Watt (cuttingthroughthematrix) and Gary Bell (A View From Space). I'm sure these type of techniques are used in the mainstream media, movies, music, etc... all the time too. Its all in the way they talk with words and phrases. |
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| bristopen | Jul 23 2010, 12:23 PM Post #5 |
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That's true, and the weird thing is that Bandler and Grinder don't bother put any references to backup what they say. They have never published any article or book in the classical scientific format to the thinking people of the scientific community. They don't like science and research for obvious reasons. And I quote from a book written by them back in 1979, entitled: Frogs to princes, which is based on edited tapes of some workshops and seminars. "Everything written in this book is explicit, and can be verified quickly in your own experience." "These are strong claims, and experienced NLP practitioners can back them up with solid, visible results." "We are not psychologists, and we're also not theologians or theoreticians. We have no idea about the "real" nature of things, and we're not particularly interested in what's "true." " "We do not test the description we arrive at for accuracy, or how it fits with neurological data, or statistics about what should be going on. All we do in order to understand whether our description is an adequate model for what we are doing is to find out whether it works or not." The mind manipulation through hypnosis and suggestion is obvious. The guys make statements such as: "Do you believe that? It's a lie, you know. Everything we're going to tell you here is a lie. All generalizations are lies. Since we have no claim on truth or accuracy, we will be lying to you consistently throughout this seminar. There are only two differences between us and other teachers: One is that we announce at the beginning of our seminars that everything we say will be a lie, and other teachers do not. Most of them believe their lies. They don't realize that they are made up. The other difference is that most of our lies will work out really well if you act as if they are true." You can't talk in such an outrageous way to people of any intelligence level unless you have conditioned them. |
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| broken sticks | Jul 23 2010, 08:23 PM Post #6 |
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wise words bristopen, and good quotes. and jeff, you're right, there is something to hypnosis. its used all the time, particularly in marketing as you say. i don't know what commercials over there are like, but here we have a lot that show a bunch of random confusing crap for 20 seconds then hit you with the logo. the confusion gets you into a semi-trance like state, and before you can work out what's happening you're hit with a big bright logo and then its over. it only really works if you're semi-paying attention, but that's how most people watch TV i think. gotta go now... for some reason i must buy coke.... |
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| YougeneDebs | Jul 24 2010, 12:10 AM Post #7 |
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Hey sticks! What about 'cleavage' in the commercials over there? Here it's ubiquitous. You can't even turn on the TV without some tits being shoved in your face! Thanks in advance, Debs |
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| broken sticks | Jul 24 2010, 04:13 AM Post #8 |
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yeah, same here debs. or legs. i've also spotted a tendency to slightly mispronounce the word "six" so that it almost sounds like "sex", to get people's attention or whatever. |
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| bristopen | Jul 24 2010, 07:07 AM Post #9 |
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Hi there, I have something really interesting for you people. In 1987, Richard Bandler -co-founder of NLP- was charged with first degree homicide, the victim was some kind of druggie prostitute. The only witness, her boyfriend cocaine dealer was on the run because he was "afraid for his life". Bandler was acquitted soon after in real strange circumstances... Titillating Trial Involves Lots of Dirt-and Mr. Clean Guru Focus of Lurid Murder Case Los Angeles Times (pre-1997 Fulltext) - Los Angeles, Calif. Date: Jan 12, 1988 [Corine Christensen], the daughter of a San Francisco policeman, and her boyfriend, ex-felon James Marino, were his suppliers, according to court documents. Marino was [Richard Bandler]'s best friend and now is the prosecution's star witness. Marino said that on the morning of the slaying, he and Bandler visited Christensen at her townhouse in Live Oak, an unincorporated area just south of Santa Cruz. After arguing with her, Bandler allegedly sawed off the top of a Mr. Clean bottle to use as a silencer on his .357 Magnum. Spilling liquid soap on himself and the gun, Bandler shot Christensen at the dining room table, where they had been drinking, Marino said. Bizarre Case Shows Flaky Underside of Santa Cruz Los Angeles Times (pre-1997 Fulltext) - Los Angeles, Calif. Author: MILES CORWIN Date: Jan 28, 1988 Cocaine had brought [Richard Bandler], [James Marino] and [Corine Christensen] together. Marino had been a drug dealer, he told authorities shortly after the killing, and, as he became a close friend of Bandler, began to supply him with free cocaine. Later, when Marino left the business, he said, Bandler bought his cocaine from Christensen. Bandler ended up swigging tequila and shouting at Christensen. Marino claimed that Bandler threatened him and would not let him out of the house. Bandler eventually resumed shouting at Christensen and as she unfolded a bindle of cocaine and began inhaling some of it, he put a .357 Magnum to her face and fired, Marino testified. A bloody straw and cocaine residue were found by authorities on the table. Bandler testified that it was Marino's idea to visit Christensen. Marino had been ranting the night before the killing about how Christensen had arranged to have him beaten, Bandler said. Because he still felt that he was in danger, Bandler said, he loaned his .357 Magnum to Marino. San Jose Mercury News (CA) - December 16, 1987 - 1B Local KEY MURDER TRIAL WITNESS TESTIFIES Saying that he was "still afraid for my life,"the key witness in the Richard Bandler murder trial testified Tuesday that he became a fugitive because "somebody wanted me dead." James Marino, 55, who testified Monday that he was at the Live Oak town house of Corine Christensen when the woman was shot to death Nov. 3, 1986, told defense lawyer M. Gerald Schwartzbach on Tuesday he fled the area because he "wasn't... San Jose Mercury News (CA) - December 4, 1987 - 1B Local TRIAL LOOKS AT AUTOPSY TESTS INDICATE BANDLER'S ROLE Lawyers in the Richard Bandler murder trial Thursday questioned the physician who performed the autopsy on the victim about "blowback"-- a phenomenon in which particles of tissue and blood explode outward from a body an instant after it is struck by a bullet. Prosecutor Gary Fry, who called Dr. Richard Mason to the stand, is attempting to show that tiny bits of blood and tissue on a T-shirt he says the defendant was wearing indicate that Bandler was the trigger... Edited by bristopen, Jul 24 2010, 07:19 AM.
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