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Carmen Taylor Answers Questions
Topic Started: Apr 23 2009, 05:01 AM (14,321 Views)
broken sticks
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is there an estimation as to how far away this camera is, seat? (or anybody?)

i haven't got to really studying CBS yet, but looking at the visible roofline of the east face of tower 2, i could have a reasonable shot at working out where the plane is
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seatnineb

dont know dude....

that camera could be zoomed in...or it could be its natural focal length.

that camera could be located somewhere in the east village

victor cruzate was a witness in the east village and here is a pic he tooK( he never saw the plane approach or hit(but he could have been looking elsewhere at the time

Posted Image
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shure
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Quote:
 
Seatninb: Am sending this image again since I can’t explain those you just provided. Simply have no answer. Try putting a compass to this image, taking my location (short arrow), allowing for me turning my head only slightly to my left to see the “small speck of a plane” (as I follow it “level to the South Tower, and then it banks and hits) and let’s see what ya’ll come up with as to its approach. Also, my first description of its approach was west, and upon later speculation, did agree that it could have been a bit north of my original direct west. Not trying to be argumentative, but so far it seems that as to location of cameraperson, we have my position pretty accurate. Tgc c


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seatnineb

shure
May 21 2009, 10:25 AM
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Seatninb: Am sending this image again since I can’t explain those you just provided. Simply have no answer. Try putting a compass to this image, taking my location (short arrow), allowing for me turning my head only slightly to my left to see the “small speck of a plane” (as I follow it “level to the South Tower, and then it banks and hits) and let’s see what ya’ll come up with as to its approach. Also, my first description of its approach was west, and upon later speculation, did agree that it could have been a bit north of my original direct west. Not trying to be argumentative, but so far it seems that as to location of cameraperson, we have my position pretty accurate. Tgc c


@Carmen

Thanks very much for info...again appreciated.

and no problem for sounding aurgumentative....it is difficult to express oneself in this medium...i am not very good at it myself!

But I constructed a little map using google maps..which might help you...it shows the tip of lower manhattan and the hudson river...i have incorporated a compass depicting N,S,E and W.

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the dotted line is the approx approach trajectory of the plane as shown in variouse videos showing it hitting the building.....

you can also see the north and south towers.

Actually Looking at it from this arial angle ....it seems that your ferry was at a diagonal in relation to direct North....i drew a red band to depict this. the ferry was probably positioned in a north west-south east direction.

I guess if you were looking at the towers and then turned your head round ..you would be facing south west or west..

But would you say that now seeing this map.......that the plane still approached from the north west?

Thanks in advance

Edited by seatnineb, May 21 2009, 05:07 PM.
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broken sticks
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carmen,

and if possible, could you try and indicate whereabouts on its path to the tower you will have first seen the plane?

thank you :)
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shure
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Looked slightly left, low on horizon saw plane and DID watch plane cross the Hudson. Think the ferry was positioned a little more like this because I remember sitting straight on my seat at the end of the ferry because I was facing nearly straight to the ferry. Other than turning my head when I heard (felt droning vibrations) and saw the plane coming in, I never changed position or turned my body.

Am also including (the 2005 ferry shot again) two pictures of me standing by a building with the ferry located just out of slight in front of the building. I’m standing as close as I could get without boarding the ferry to my 2001 position and pointing to were the towers were. See if that helps. The second picture shows the Statue of Liberty in the background and a portion of one of the posts on the far right side to help you know where the ferry is.


Do you actually know the location of the camerapersons who took video showing the path?

Also, I wouldn’t be averse to saying that the path I watched COULD have been from as far south as the yellow line, but I DID have the immediate perception of the plane coming towards me as well as from the left, hence my statement west or northwest. The yellow line simply doesn’t feel right to me,…However, angles from a non-professional of an object’s exact location, angle, altitude change, speeds, etc., could be honestly incorrect. Tgc c


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Edited by shure, May 23 2009, 03:16 AM.
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broken sticks
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hey jeff, i don't understand the diagram above the map
sorry if i'm being dumb - i'll check back thru the thread
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shure
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I don't understand it either!
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shure
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I updated the other post above with the map showing the lines. When I was getting the email it was coming out all funky.

Here it is here;

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seatnineb

Thanks Jeff + Carmen

For me personally....I would say that Carmen's testimony conforms to what we see in most of the videos...i.e the final 6 seconds or so of the approach of the plane accross the hudson from the south west/westish direction.

I think if we take perspective,perception and the shock of seeing something unexpected then I guess all those factors will be a contributing factor in that witnesses's account of when and where he/she saw that unexpected thing(the plane)

@Carmen

even though it happened very quickly....can you remember being able to discern what the colour of the underbelly of the plane was?.

being a united airlines plane it should have been dark blue....

another prominent witness who i contacted in the summer of 2007 ...called Barry Drogin.... thinks the colour of the underbelly was white(he puts it down to false memory):

I remember that the underside of the plane was white, when the video clearly shows it is not
http://www.notnicemusic.com/911idiots.html


Edited by seatnineb, May 23 2009, 04:21 AM.
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seatnineb

In addition

@ Carmen:

there are witnesses who claim that the plane flew over the statue of liberty....which is on liberty island.....we can use that island as bench mark;

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could see the rear profile with engines on both wings as it approached the statue [of Liberty]. A Boeing 737, I thought. And then it dipped. Not a graceful, gradual airliner turn like you see in commercials; this was a sharp, abrupt turn that put the plane into a forty-five-degree bank, and it flew into the shade being created by the smoke plume from the north tower...

I moved and focused the camera, placed the remote in my lap, pressed "play" and "record," and looked back up my camera monitor. It now contained the image of a huge fireball.

"Did he just...?"...

"Holy shite," Paul said calmly. "Yeah. He just hit the building!"

John Del Giorno:
Covering Catastrophe: Broadcast Journalists Report September 11



@Jeff

Think you might find del giorno's account interesting
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shure
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Underbelly of plane color? Didn’t make an impression on me at the time. Looking at my image, it looks dark, but not DARK blue, but that has nothing to do with memory. Also, what might cause confusion…clear morning, sun not up too high, but still bright, could really have washed out the blue underbelly if it reflected sun-rising brightness…just like the two sides of the tower.



Statue of Liberty flight pattern…look at the picture of me standing in front of the white building. Isn’t that the statue along the horizon of the Hudson? If so, with me sitting in my position, wouldn’t the statue be to the back of my left shoulder…making it impossible for me to see an approach from that direction?



Took pictures at my grand daughter’s graduation today…amazing how from the center of the bleachers along the basketball court, I could hold my camera left, right, angle up, down, lower my camera position and aim way up, it looked like I was all over the place. Thought about 911 while I was shooting. Tgc c


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seatnineb


@Carmen...

This is the live footage from NY1:

The arrow is pointing to the plane...

The statue of liberty is on the island to the right underneath.....if anything....judging by this video...the plane was considerable distance above the statue...

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maybe the plane appeared as a speck to you because it was still at a relative high altitude.....and from your perspective on the ground.....it may have been difficult for you to see that it was actually in a shallow dive(by the time you saw it)
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genghis6199

if the plane was a speck behind her,
then she couldn't have seen it circle round from the north west.

this is where the black low flying object
will start to appear as a different object in peoples testimony.

the people who were distracted during the process would
convince themselves that the north west bogey,
had turned into the speck from the sky,
while they seren't looking.
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shure
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Quote:
 
I agree that something coming toward a person’s line of vision could be lowering it’s altitude as well as getting closer and would be hard for someone, especially someone not familiar with the area, to not recognize that phenomena. I don’t argue with anyone’s analysis or hypostasis to a truthfully given account. All I have to offer is a truthful account to the best of my memory of that day. I can’t change what I “remember”, ie won’t “change” what I remember based on another’s fact. My memory is just that, with all its possible faults and truths and human attributes. Use my memory as a tool, a building block, nothing more or less. Tgc c


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One of the craziest things, how could I have seen and followed 175 if it were coming from behind me? It would seem, based on my position and angle I would be looking, and the fact that the Statue is more or less behind me, that I would not have been able to see 175 until it came virtually overhead, from behind me, and then into the South Tower. Strange…tgc c


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