If this is it...part 4 – Nazis among us—the grain of truth in the lie

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If this is it...part 4 – Nazis among us—the grain of truth in the lie
Tweet Topic Started: May 31 2010, 04:06 PM (752 Views)
Jenny	May 31 2010, 04:06 PM Post #1
Posts: 219 Group: Members Member #206 Joined: Apr 29, 2009	If this is it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLs1k7OdYEY “...Girl don't lie, and tell me that you need me Girl don't cry, and tell me nothing's wrong I'll be alright one way or another...” ~re mixed feelings about 9/11 truth Part 4 – Nazis among us—the grain of truth Its a "debunker" cliche the 9/11 truth movement is full of Holocaust deniers and Nazis. It's a lie, but a lie with a basis of truth: Nazis sure do seem to want "join up" and spread the word "the Jews did it!" I say Nazis, but this includes people who aren't actually Nazis but, either don't mind working with them, OR who share the same agenda. I should say “agendas” because where Nazis sympathies lie there appear to be several: 1: the “oppression” of the “white” race by blacks, Jews, Mexicans, Irish Catholics—whom everyone else consider white/of European decent, but these folks never let facts get in their way. For that matter most European Jews are “white”, that is of Polish, German, Russian decent—yep, those pesky facts .... 2: WASP Zionists who are from the Christian Right and have a delusional idea they can bring about the Rapture by mucking about in the Middle East. 3: Various alphabet soup intelligence agencies—the most well know being the FBI—running ops with an agenda of keeping the political force of American labour tied up in phony racist bollox. 4: The same alphabet soup intel ops directed at smearing activists groups as Nazis to undermine their credibility and effectiveness. Enter the Holocaust “Revisionists”. These persons seem to the be first line of “Nazi” infiltration into otherwise progressive activist groups. Often initially members of said group will have never heard of the “revisionists” other work, as they have no contact with Nazis or Nazi sympathizers. So it's a bit like a mugging—a la Eric Williams and the Arizona conference. http://911blogger.com/news/2007-02-01/eric-d-williams-911-accountability-conference-director-and-holocaust-revisionist?page=2 Of course other right wing nutters are completely familiar with the rubbish, their culture heavily overlapping with the extreme right Nazis and crypt-Nazis gravitate to, so it's no surprise when say “Screw Lucy” leaps on issues like these(if they aren't actually setups from go): screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/01/holocaust-denier-hosting-9-11.html As someone says: “We just got duped. Pure and simple. And I'm not sure we could have avoided this one. The guy made himself look kosher up to this point.” Which makes Pat's statement more than disingenuous: “Note: The point here is not that some idiot Holocaust Denier is holding a conference. The point is that so many other people who imagine themselves to standing up for the "Truth" would care to be associated with such a character.” If the man kept mum about his Revisionist interests AND the group he insinuated himself in were not sympathetic to Nazis OR part of a right-wing culture who might have heard about his Nazi schtick, THEN its not about people wanting to be associated with this character. Its about what motivated this man to involve himself in the first place. He couldn't have expected to to hide his interests for long, nor have been surprised at the backlash once he was exposed. It is rare for a genuine Nazi sympathizer TO GO OUT OF THIER WAY, on their own, into a den of “enemies” of the White Race—which at last count was most of the sane people on the planet. The one thing that can be said about “White Power” culture is they prefer to keep to their own—a bit like survivalists. Eric Williams was almost certainly put up to this “job”. It's pretty much a given when one sees a Holocaust “revisionist” involved, promoted, or excused, you have a flag that a deliberate attempt to inject Nazis material is in progress. Furthermore, given the ultra insular nature of the White Power/Neo-Nazis sub-cultures, the agenda has almost certainly NOTHING to do with “saving the white race”, and is probably all about smearing your activist group as Nazi sympathizers. Which narrows the actors behind the 911truthers are Nazis smear campaign all the way down to the alphabet soups and their affiliates who have a history playing with Nazis: http://www.orlandoweekly.com/features/story.asp?id=10497 http://www.amazon.com/Undercover-Nazi-David-Gletty/dp/1934449350/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275183540&sr=1-1 [Aside-I seriously have a hard time believing anyone needs to infiltrate a Nazi group to help ORGANIZE NEO NAZI EVENTS? WTF? Gathering info to prevent crimes is one thing—being an organizer is all sorts of dodgey...] When the Holocaust “revisionist” first pops up, if he's clever(and usually its a he), he won't start off with extreme stuff. He wants to feel the ground, see what his audience will put up with. He'll waffle about the accuracy of figures and “how can we know if people didn't make mistakes”. This is a legitimate historical concern—that historians have procedures for dealing with. But he won't go there—he's trying to sound you out. He'll appeal to liberal fair-minded but naïve sorts, who take his questions at face value. If you don't volunteer your doubts about the Holocaust, he'll take a wait and see attitude. If you respond acknowledging his concerns and agreeing with certain points while making it clear being associated with Holocaust denial is not a smart thing, you'll be on the line—are you simply very clever at hiding it? Or are you trouble? If you respond with a clearly better understanding of history and sources than the revisionist himself, you will be marked as trouble. And, very important— if after sounding you out- -a third supposedly progressive party claims this individual has extreme right-wing sympathies—when he has just repudiated that claim AND you have observed no evidence NOR are you presented with evidence of this persons assertions—I cannot stress this strong enough--RUN FOR YOUR LIFE. All those people are part of a crypto-Nazi network. --The individual sounding you out. --the third party(ies) because a) the only way they would know more is if they had more knowledge than you do b) that they are not volunteering and c)they remain in the group with the Nazi sympathizer in question. This sounds alarming but neo-Nazi/white power culture—the poor sods who actually believe this bollox because they're at rock bottom—these people are dangerous. They can be used by the sophisticated leadership—the Tom Metzgers and the like—as a useful pool of ready made patsies. And since –like unemployed African Americas/Afro-Caribbeans( their brothers and sisters in economic oppression)--they're almost always on the wrong side of the law, they can be blackmailed into doing some nasty favors for the feds. So when the Holocaust revisionist pops up in a group or some git says “Israel did 911”, its not just about free speech. It about whether you want to attract Nazi sympathizers and become part of a network that could quite literally be a threat to your life: In Oregon: attempted murder of antifascist member http://antiracist.org/node/1578 http://www.onepeoplesproject.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=375:shooting-in-downtown-portland-oregon-likey-neo-nazi-ambush-against-antifa&catid=29:antifa-news Quote: “Friday, 02 April 2010 02:11 OPP HQ If the reports coming out of Portland are accurate, things are about to get real ugly for a lot of Nazis. Last weekend Luke Querner, an Anti-Fascist activist, was shot by someone reportedly from the neo-Nazi circles out there, and Antifa are looking for him. Now Portland is the last city you would want something like this to happen, because there has been a rather lopsided war going on in that town for over two decades between Antifa and Nazis, with Antifa pretty much getting the best of them.” Followed by member of “Killtown's” 9/11 group trying to gatecrash an event by the same antifascist group. http://kboo.fm/node/21071 http://kboo.fm/audio/download/21071/0426%20Antifa%20AIPAC.mp3 [if that link doesn't work, go to the kboo node---they have the mp3 there] Some examples of “revisionism” and anti-Semite material a member of Killtown's 9/11 group was caught with: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3484/hololie.jpg http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/7663/holohoax.jpg http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6537/jewsorgans.jpg More information about people injecting this rubbish can be found at this thread: http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=37884 In that same thread is this persons account of how far the 911truth = Nazis meme has traveled: Quote: “I had just finished a day handing out brochures on 9/11 and began walking home and I saw a group of young people in their 20s...I stopped and enthusiastically shared my literature about 9/11... half way into my sentence one man yelled at me in front of his friends... DON'T GIVE US THIS JEW HATING BULL s**, he then threw my brochure to the ground and walked away saying I was anti Semitic... I'll yelled at the guy saying that I was not anti Semitic... but they kept walking...(laughing too) There I was alone and wondering why did this happen.. For the next few years I learned why... Every time corporate media did a story on 9/11 truthers they would work holocaust denial in the same sentence of their stories somehow... Also there are a few Holocaust deniers in the 9/11 truth movement... we had two members in our own group, they left because the rest of us wouldn't go there...” If you're still in the 911 activists game, and you care about the people you're working with, do not give Holocaust “Revisionists” or people spouting pro-Nazis rubbish like “The Jews did it”, membership, a platform, or excuses. In the rare event they aren't actually agents of a Nazis agenda, too sodding bad. They should know better. The risks of muddying 9/11truth with racist rubbish and the risk to the safety of group members is not worth it. This includes disingenuous discussions about Zionism that focus on supposed Israel controlled US government, based mainly on the “evidence” of Jewish sounding surnames. The real Zionists in Washington aren't Jews at all but All American Home-grown WASPs with a Christian-Right agenda. And who apparently have no ethical qualms about working with or using neo-Nazis or crypto-Nazis. They also don't give a shte about the Palestinian struggle, fyi. Going back to the various parties pushing a Nazis agenda in 9/11truth and elsewhere: 1: White Power Warriors 2: WASP Zionists 3: FBI, etc disruption of Anti racist activism 4: FBI, etc use of above to poison (X) with Nazi sympathies Number 1 are invariably the tools of 2-4, and used when violence is needed that can't be traced to 2-4. WASP Zionists are where you'll find organizations like FOX news—basically anyone excusing Israeli actions while at the same time pushing an Extreme right-wing agenda. These people are impervious to logic as their mission is informed by Christian belief of the narrow sort focusing on the Rapture. Anything that brings that about sooner is fair game. These people are nuts. FBI, etc, disruption and Nazi smears comes from a variety of blog warriors, some in house, some out-sourced, some of whom may be paid: http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/2007/12/black-pr-and-proof-of-paid-internet.html Others are funded and supported through private companies. Its all a Black PR campaign, exploiting webmasters high-minded and somewhat naïve ideals of free speech. Since most early 911truth operations were volunteer efforts, the opportunity rises for some of the crypto-fascist/Nazi blog warriors to volunteer for moderation duty. At that point you are truly screwed—the blogger will waste no time funneling personal information about the webmaster and sites users to his network, and sometimes the effects will spill over into Real Life. Such information will pop up is surprising places and most of the time the targets will have no idea how it got there. Any legal actions will flounder. Very rarely is the chain of custody recovered. These crypto-or not so crypto Nazis –will also code words and certain issues to attract other racist sympathizers such as alleged “Libertarian” concerns about “liberty”, the constitution, and immigration. From there a perfect swarm of right-wing nuttery will arrive. See dog-whistle politics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics http://agonist.org/ian_welsh/20060925/just_a_comma_dog_whistle_politics http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Dog_whistle_politics How do these blog warriors do it? How do they get away with it for so long? Part of the answer is tricking the 9/11truth movement into thinking right and left politics don't matter. We've all been exposed to the idea the Democrats are just as corrupt as the Republicans—so vote uber Republican, er “Libertarian”-goes the logic(in the States, obviously). This has somehow been extended to mean left and right have no meaning separate from parties and this is false. While the value of political parties is questionable, left and right politics describe something very real separate from parties: Broadly speaking: Quote: anyone who wants to make the world a better place FOR EVERYBODY is some species of progressive. This is broadly left-wing politics. People involved may self identify as liberal, democrat, radical, leftwing libertarian, green, etc--even some RINOS and/or conservatives in the very strict sense of the word. This is separate from registered party affiliation. OTOH right-wing politics is expressly about making the world a better place for a very small group of already privileged people. The ones who know the score identify as the worst of the me-first entitled conservative and/or neo con. And they've learned how to hide it under a "I'm just concerned about big government" veneer. Anyone else from the other groups who support these politics have to be tricked into doing so. Because when you corner them individually on the basics like clean air, clean water, and racism--they cave or get tongue tied. But once this is muddled with Dem=Rep, therefore Left=Right rhetoric, this reality is obscured and the manipulation of –or alienation of--progressives can be very effective in the hands of crypro fascist blog warriors undermining what is basically a progressive movement. Who are the cryoto-Nazis? They include outright Holocaust “Revisionists” like Eric Williams and David Cole, as well as their apologists. They also include people slipping in revisionists as sources for their works no matter how many times they are cautioned by everyone else. They also include people endorsing these works. A short list of 9/11 authors including this rubbish: Webster Tarpley, Jim Fetzer, Kevin Barrett, DRG, --don't like being on the list get rid of the Nazi bollox. See above attempted murder above by the people you're attracting and STFU. 9/11 interest websites dedicated to making a safe place for such material include Rense.com, apfn.net/org, 911movement.org(dead site), americanfreepress.net, wtcdemolition.com. They may also become obsessed with calls to hunt their challengers down. Or take on projects making lists about activists under the excuse of documenting history, but really to be used by the network to share information about targets without directly communicating with the rest of the crypto-Nazi network[in fact anyone engaged in drawing up public “hit lists” or “enemy lists” based solely on disagreement as opposed to criminal actions, can be assumed to be engaging in an unethical data mining operation, ironically a la “the Thought Police”]. Since the actual traffic to these sites from the general educated public can be described as negligible, when they want to push an agenda, they have to send their blog warriors out to stir shte up and spread the word. Many of these blog warriors pushing a crypto-Nazi agendas and working with Nazi sympathetic networks, are punch clock villains—they don't really believe anything, they don't really care, as long as the get-- their "pay" or whatever they're getting out of it: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PunchClockVillain Quote: “Punch Clock Villain Like a mercenary, but with none of the badass. Anti Villains who have no real grudge against the heroes, but are simply doing a job they're getting paid for. After hours they're totally personable joes who go hang out like anyone else. Most Punch Clock Villains are not even particularly mean.” And When not played for comedy, it illustrates the concept of the "banality of evil", a phrase coined to refer to the Nazi regime, where many of the worst evils were ultimately perpetrated by bureaucrats "just doing their jobs." (Probably a source of inspiration for this trope.) See also "Just Following Orders". If played seriously, the emotional detachment that the Punch Clock Villain displays when he or she knowingly contributes to various atrocities can be chilling. These may insist that it was Nothing Personal, but don't expect that to stop the Anti Hero, Lancer or Mama Bear/Papa Wolf whose child(ren) they hurt from telling them to Talk To The Fist. If they'd rather Pet The Dog, they might be a Minion With An F In Evil; if they got into evil because the superhero team fired them for misbehavior, they may be a Hero With An F In Good. But a few are—bizarrely—volunteers. I say bizarrely because it is clear they've put quite a bit of effort into building a reputation for research, setting up websites, and getting their patter straight. Only after years of laying groundwork do they feel comfortable exposing themselves as what the are: arrogant crypto-Nazis aresholes who believe they have the connections to “take out” anyone who crosses them—and get away with it. It is the mix of actual work, long term dedication and mental instability—with no apparent compensation for their efforts-- that makes these people something of a mystery.* Next we'll examine the career of who may be the most notorious cryto-Nazi volunteer blog warrior in 9/11truth-- “Killtown”. For now just remember: Quote: When you see Holocaust “revisionism” or “the Jews did it” being pushed, it is NOT some innocent misunderstanding of history. It is 99 times out of a 100 : 1.an attempt to inject your group/issue with Nazis associations to discredit your cause 2.attract Nazis sympathizers 3.who will be used in general information gathering on members 4.and possibly as a source of labor for “wet work” or other criminal activities against members. Do not tolerate people pushing Nazi agendas under any circumstances. http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/2010/05/if-this-is-itpart-4-nazis-among-usthe.html Next: If this is it...Part 5- The “Killtown” event and what we can learn from it NOTE: This article is about “Killtown's” online “career”, possible agenda(s) and support. None of his personal information will be published; anyone expecting so will be disappointed. Edited by Jenny, May 31 2010, 04:32 PM.



shure	May 31 2010, 06:16 PM Post #2
Administrator Posts: 6,257 Group: Administrator Member #1 Joined: Feb 13, 2008	That was another excellent article, but it sounds like trhe next one will be even better!!! One part I didn't get was this: Quote: Followed by member of “Killtown's” 9/11 group trying to gatecrash an event by the same antifascist group. http://kboo.fm/node/21071 http://kboo.fm/audio/download/21071/0426%20Antifa%20AIPAC.mp3 [if that link doesn't work, go to the kboo node---they have the mp3 there] I was expecting to hear Nico start yelling in the background or something. The truthaction thread was a good read too! Reminded me of the good ol' days Thanks for posting all the articles Jenny!



Jenny	Jun 1 2010, 03:19 PM Post #3
Posts: 219 Group: Members Member #206 Joined: Apr 29, 2009	Quote: That was another excellent article, but it sounds like trhe next one will be even better!!! One part I didn't get was this: Quote: Followed by member of “Killtown's” 9/11 group trying to gatecrash an event by the same antifascist group. http://kboo.fm/node/21071 http://kboo.fm/audio/download/21071/0426%20Antifa%20AIPAC.mp3 [if that link doesn't work, go to the kboo node---they have the mp3 there] I was expecting to hear Nico start yelling in the background or something. Lol--nope no Nico. Sorry if I'm being vague--a bit of its on purpose. There's all sorts of pending legal fun. If you can listen to the interview you'll hear a reporter talking to antifacists and being somewhat clueless about their concerns(its possible she's new at this...) A 9/11 group is mentioned along with a man's name. That is "Killtowns" 9/11 group and the man mentioned is a close friend of "Killtowns" household and the same individual who posted about "the Holohoax". This is a very nasty situation because people have invited others into this group under false pretensions and with the full knowledge they were exposing those others to Nazi sympathisers and their dangerous allies. Quote: The truthaction thread was a good read too! Reminded me of the good ol' days Thanks for posting all the articles Jenny! You're welcome! ;-)



shure	Jun 2 2010, 10:11 AM Post #4
Administrator Posts: 6,257 Group: Administrator Member #1 Joined: Feb 13, 2008



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