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Smoke rising south of WTC 2 "collapse"
Topic Started: Dec 19 2009, 10:31 PM (4,108 Views)
Matt
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Where is this smoke rising? Could it be related to the "collapse?"

Posted Image

CBS 9/11 17:46 -- -- the "Tinacart" South Tower collapse video shows smoke rising in the left side of the frame... highlighted in femr2's rendition here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv8PtmVpPY0

Extended version here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF9kfInhjXA#t=2m30s


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beatprophet


It would be very interesting to find out where this smoke is
coming from .. It seems very, very strange.

I doubt that it is a regular thing to have a black cloud rising
from the ground in the New York district! .. It looks like the
result of an explosion of some type .. like a petrol explosion or fire?

And for it to occur at the same time as the south tower collapse
does appear a little suspicious.


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achimspok

Check for Newark Int. Airport. I think there was any report about a fire on 9/11.
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Matt
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achimspok
Dec 20 2009, 10:56 AM
Check for Newark Int. Airport. I think there was any report about a fire on 9/11.
Apparently there was a fire there on 9/10. See http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/10/bn.01.html

Also http://forums.ktla.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2651096394/m/3321084735
...not an official source, but it does have an interesting story about Todd Beamer being prevented from flying on 9/10... and Israeli connections to 9/11. (More on the passengers of the planes and various relations here: http://community.whptv.com/forums/thread/1898289.aspx )

Fire on 9/10 interferes with another Flight 93 passenger: http://web.archive.org/web/20010917042557/http://www.dallasnews.com/national/472747_flight93_17spo.html

Newark International Airport is in the right line of sight, though. Liberty State Park...
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achimspok

Hmm, but I remember I read some discussion about that plume...
It's in the Naudet doc too. Is there an other video or photo showing the plume?
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Darren
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This may help.

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Attached to this post:
Attachments: Google_Maps_plume.jpg (158.5 KB)
Edited by Darren, Dec 21 2009, 11:46 PM.
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YougeneDebs
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If the smoke plume came from Manhattan, then it came from between the pink and blue lines, imo.

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Posted Image
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Attachments: smokerising1.jpg (52.33 KB)
Attachments: smokerising2.jpg (924.52 KB)
Edited by YougeneDebs, Dec 22 2009, 01:42 AM.
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Darren
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Yougenedebs
Dec 22 2009, 01:40 AM
If the smoke plume came from Manhattan, then it came from between the pink and blue lines, imo.

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Posted Image
The point of reference I used was Old Slip Road & State Street in Manhattan to the left of the white triangular building (where Engine Company 4/Ladder Company 15 is located). The plume can be seen above and beyond that point. The neck of the plume for lack of a better term has been slightly shifted from the wind. A bearing and size can be estimated given distance of travel over time. If this plume was similar in size to the one in Pennsylvania, it is conceivable that it is some distance away. A secondary source from a different angle would help.

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achimspok

If it came from lower Manhattan then it should be visible in some other video or photograph e.g. from NW or S. Is there any known perspective to at least to exclude possible areas? Matt, you know it.
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YougeneDebs
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I’ve just checked Hoboken’s view; didn’t see a plume; watched from 4:10 thru 5:25.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRzWvLENuMs#t=4m10s
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YougeneDebs
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Another NW view; no plume, but inconclusive (film not long enough).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmA9KXXPq04#t=0m30s
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YougeneDebs
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This view is from near the NJ Transit-HBLR stop at Jersey Ave near Aetna, about due west of WTC; with a good view of the tip on Manhattan; does anyone see a plume?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN1aWMHkRvk
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YougeneDebs
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If lower Manhattan is excluded, here is my estimate of the ‘zone of plume’ with the airport of the left and Kent Ave on the right.
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Attachments: smokerising3.jpg (128.53 KB)
Edited by YougeneDebs, Dec 23 2009, 12:22 AM.
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Matt
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achimspok
Dec 22 2009, 10:07 PM
If it came from lower Manhattan then it should be visible in some other video or photograph e.g. from NW or S. Is there any known perspective to at least to exclude possible areas? Matt, you know it.
That's the thing. No other video seems to capture it. I think Manhattan can be ruled out.

This sort of thing makes me want to plot all the videographers locations on a map with links to their videos. Hmm.
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YougeneDebs
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Matt
Dec 23 2009, 08:34 AM
achimspok
Dec 22 2009, 10:07 PM
If it came from lower Manhattan then it should be visible in some other video or photograph e.g. from NW or S. Is there any known perspective to at least to exclude possible areas? Matt, you know it.
That's the thing. No other video seems to capture it. I think Manhattan can be ruled out.

This sort of thing makes me want to plot all the videographers locations on a map with links to their videos. Hmm.
Plot them on a map like this?
Posted Image
Attached to this post:
Attachments: WhereTheyAre1.jpg (102.41 KB)
Edited by YougeneDebs, Dec 23 2009, 12:16 PM.
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