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WTC7 Explosion - info
Topic Started: Dec 14 2009, 09:48 PM (7,884 Views)
broken sticks
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i was looking at this video the other day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YvrKfWkxdw

and i saw richard gage mention it in a presentation. he said they didn't know when it was filmed, so i thought it would be useful to find out.

i didn't even know where exactly it was, but i thought we could work it out and then work out the time.
well, if you want to know a location, what's the best way of finding out? that's right! ask debs!
debs found it extremely quickly (i'm gonna quote you here debs):
"I found the phone!
It’s next to 67 Murray St, Lilly O’Briens Bar and Restaurant; I can tell by the iron work framing of the building right next to the phone. The two shops on either side were shuttered up with metal roll doors when the call was made on 9/11."
Posted Image

So the men look to the south (towards WTC7, down West Broadway) when the explosion goes off.

The important part is the time this occurs.
Again, as debs says: "The sunshine is streaming up Murray, so it’s about after 10am but before noonish."

Why is this so important?

Here's a transcript (not complete - help?) of the video. The first guy at least is INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service), maybe the second guy too.

First INS guy: "Yeah, here's one of the guys who can tell you i'm ok, alright? Here, hold on..."
Second guy: [into phone] "Hello?"
First INS guy: [to cameraman, or fireman behind cameraman?] "You wanna call your mother or something?"
BA-BOOM
Fireman behind camera: "......supposed to be right now?" (as in, "where are you/we supposed to be right now?", or similar)
New fireman (walking into shot): "You gotta get back or something."
First INS guy: [into phone] "I'm alright"
New fireman: "You know that; you gotta get back - Seven's exploding"
Fireman behind camera (who is now in shot): "I know"
First INS guy: "Don't worry about me. You need to make calls right now?"



SO did the firemen know that seven was "exploding" before midday?!


As debs points out, the sun is streaming down murray. Taking into account the map above, here is a couple of rough examples of the direction of the sun.
Posted Image
Posted Image

sorry its not more precise. i haven't had time to work on this but i thought i should post it anyway.
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broken sticks
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anyway, the goal of this was (to start with) try to narrow-down the time of that explosion.
i though at first it was the afternoon, but its clearly the morning.
is it after both towers went down? probably, given the debris there.
can we narrow it down further?
again, probably. this is a crap copy of the video, and better versions would help.
plus, as debs spotted, the first INS guy is wearing a watch (unreadable at this resolution).
i was also thinking that we could find other footage from this cameraperson. that should help us narrow down the time.
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YougeneDebs
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Great job on the Google pix!
And, I noticed that both INS guys have a watch.
Maybe someone at NSA/GCHQ will step up and help out?
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Matt
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If all else fails, somebody can call the woman who filmed it.... Lucia Davis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNeZ0mTAa4s

A clip from HBO's "In Memoriam" gives us another line of text:
"I'm right underneath the damn thing, alright."

The timeline of the HBO documentary places that conversation before the WTC 1 "collapse" sequence, however it could very well be out of place, because another Lucia Davis clip, which actually comes from right after the WTC 1 "collapse," comes several minutes before both. See http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2781019870937695468&ei=hjAnS5jkLISwrAOU-PyFDA# at 22:20 and compare with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VinJOtCec4k - which includes the Lucia Davis "collapse" portion of the clip.

Here's a better quality version of the explosion footage, courtesy 911Polska:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl9_zW8rgRc
I've looked closely at the watches and can only guess, but I think it's about 10:15 or so. If somebody wants to get the In Memoriam DVD, a good look at the INS dude's watch may tell. I only have an avi rip version.
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YougeneDebs
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Maybe Lucia got scared by the explosion and went to the cafe just before WTC1 was destroyed?
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broken sticks
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Matt
Dec 15 2009, 01:55 AM
If all else fails, somebody can call the woman who filmed it.... Lucia Davis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNeZ0mTAa4s

A clip from HBO's "In Memoriam" gives us another line of text:
"I'm right underneath the damn thing, alright."


woah! excellent quality!! so the "In Memoriam" clip cuts before the explosion? bloody typical. it might indeed be worth speaking to her.

Quote:
 
The timeline of the HBO documentary places that conversation before the WTC 1 "collapse" sequence, however it could very well be out of place, because another Lucia Davis clip, which actually comes from right after the WTC 1 "collapse," comes several minutes before both. See http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2781019870937695468&ei=hjAnS5jkLISwrAOU-PyFDA# at 22:20 and compare with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VinJOtCec4k - which includes the Lucia Davis "collapse" portion of the clip.
yeah, confusing... plus:
Quote:
 

Here's a better quality version of the explosion footage, courtesy 911Polska:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl9_zW8rgRc
I've looked closely at the watches and can only guess, but I think it's about 10:15 or so.
looks like a pretty good guess dude -
Posted Image
Quote:
 
If somebody wants to get the In Memoriam DVD, a good look at the INS dude's watch may tell. I only have an avi rip version.
i'll see what i can find - nice work matt :)
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broken sticks
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Yougenedebs
Dec 15 2009, 05:41 AM
Maybe Lucia got scared by the explosion and went to the cafe just before WTC1 was destroyed?
if i had to guess from the state of the streets and buildings, i'd say the explosion shot was after BOTH collapses, but the time on the watch appears to be between the collapses...
need more shots of that murray st area to compare i think. not sure.
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broken sticks
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barry jennings' explosions seem to be real anyway
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broken sticks
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thinking about it, explosions from 7 before WTC1 collapses might be even bigger news, as the collapse of WTC1 is what's supposed to have started the fires in 7, isn't it?

anyone know if 7's fires started before WTC1 collapsed?
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Matt
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The timeline in that European (language?) version shows WTC 1 standing... assuming there's a timeline.
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broken sticks
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Matt
Dec 15 2009, 08:39 AM
The timeline in that European (language?) version shows WTC 1 standing... assuming there's a timeline.
yeah, we should try to confirm this ourselves.
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YougeneDebs
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Here's a thought: maybe the explosion is from WTC1?
How are those firefighters going to know which building is exploding, anyway? They're 3 blocks north!

At 10:15 or so, Lucia has plenty of time to get a block-and-a-half north to the cafe below the Cosmopolitan Hotel at 95 W Broadway.
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broken sticks
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Yougenedebs
Dec 15 2009, 12:44 PM
Here's a thought: maybe the explosion is from WTC1?
How are those firefighters going to know which building is exploding, anyway? They're 3 blocks north!

At 10:15 or so, Lucia has plenty of time to get a block-and-a-half north to the cafe below the Cosmopolitan Hotel at 95 W Broadway.
maybe.
the one thing that makes me think its WTC7 so far is the one firefighter says 7's exploding.

the other replies "i know", but in the heat of the moment people say "i know" to all sorts of things.

i still think we can narrow-down the time... i'll keep digging around. and i might get myself that In Memoriam DVD for xmas too (ah, festive cheer lol)
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achimspok

10:15 seems to be the correct time. The sun azimuth angle would be 139°. In other words the shadows running at 19° towards the wall of the house.
10:15? There was that strange pressure pulse inside WTC1 at 10:18.
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broken sticks
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achimspok
Dec 17 2009, 09:25 AM
10:15 seems to be the correct time. The sun azimuth angle would be 139°. In other words the shadows running at 19° towards the wall of the house.
10:15? There was that strange pressure pulse inside WTC1 at 10:18.
true
now we have a time to work with, we should look for other video from GZ at that time
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