Chopper 7 Misidentified

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Chopper 7 Misidentified; this just in
Topic Started: Sep 10 2009, 07:27 AM (472 Views)
seatnineb	Sep 15 2009, 12:02 PM Post #16
Posts: 241 Group: Members Member #64 Joined: Oct 26, 2008	Interesting....but Kaminski never saw the 2nd plane: Quote: Ninety seconds after leaving the Battery, in the spot where we had just been looking, the second plane hit the second tower. We never saw the plane, but I could see the flash of the impact from behind us. http://www.montclair.edu/pages/alumnilife/alumnilifewinter02/features4.html.



seatnineb	Sep 15 2009, 02:39 PM Post #17
Posts: 241 Group: Members Member #64 Joined: Oct 26, 2008	A few secs after the 2nd hit......the chopper camera zooms out to capture a little bit of the underside pole...and a portion of cable: By taking the foto that Matt showed: ...and cropping and superimposing that zoomed out shot featuring the cable and pole....we might get an idea of the chopper's orientation with regards to the towers: Could be 2 options...the cable is to the right of the pole....in which case we would have something like this: so basiccally the chopper was sideways roughly to the towers and the 2nd plane(if it really existed) ....or the chopper could have been facinhg the WTC head on: I found this foto of another CBS chopper: if I do the same thing and superimpose that screenshot of the zoomout....you get this: ....seeing as Kaminsky did not see the plane.....even if his back was turned....surely he would have been looking into the monitor: Here is a another video showing where a monitor might be in such a chopper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8pWmyluwB8 Edited by seatnineb, Sep 15 2009, 02:42 PM.



broken sticks	Sep 15 2009, 02:48 PM Post #18
Posts: 1,426 Group: Members Member #105 Joined: Jan 3, 2009	seat, 1. happy b'day for yesterday (i saw it on last resort) 2. if the chopper was sideways as you have it in the first option, that would seem to fit with the choppers movement (the chopper seems to be moving to the left, with the camera making adjustments to the right to compensate)



seatnineb	Sep 16 2009, 09:22 PM Post #19
Posts: 241 Group: Members Member #64 Joined: Oct 26, 2008	broken sticks Sep 15 2009, 02:48 PM seat, 1. happy b'day for yesterday (i saw it on last resort) 2. if the chopper was sideways as you have it in the first option, that would seem to fit with the choppers movement (the chopper seems to be moving to the left, with the camera making adjustments to the right to compensate) Cheers man.. Agreed about the chopper orientation.......maybe Kaminsky might be worth a fone call from Jeff! Edited by seatnineb, Sep 16 2009, 09:23 PM.



Yougenedebs	Sep 17 2009, 01:30 AM Post #20
Posts: 218 Group: Perspectivist Member #182 Joined: Mar 30, 2009	seatnineb Sep 16 2009, 09:22 PM broken sticks Sep 15 2009, 02:48 PM seat, 1. happy b'day for yesterday (i saw it on last resort) 2. if the chopper was sideways as you have it in the first option, that would seem to fit with the choppers movement (the chopper seems to be moving to the left, with the camera making adjustments to the right to compensate) Cheers man.. Agreed about the chopper orientation.......maybe Kaminsky might be worth a fone call from Jeff! Great work, seatnineb! Debs



Matt	Oct 31 2009, 09:28 PM Post #21
Posts: 350 Group: Members Member #7 Joined: Sep 27, 2008	I found another good quote from helicopter reporter John DelGiorno: Quote: As we came out over Bayonne, New Jersey, we were climbing to 1,100 feet to get into controlled airspace, because it's just not as crazy up there. A plane flew by on the right side, less than half a mile away. All I could notice was that it was a passenger jetliner traveling north. This plane could have been on an approach into Newark, but it was just too low, traveling north, and traveling fast. Paul (Smith, the pilot) said to me, "Look at this yahoo flying into Newark like this." Paul was upset the air traffic controllers hadn't pointed him out. The plane got just north of the Statue of Liberty and made a very abrupt motion. That's when the warning signs in your head start to go off. I've never seen a passenger jet make a dip like that. It dipped and then turned right. You knew at that altitude, at that speed, it wasn't a nice graceful turn, it was a turn. In the time it took us to process that information, that's how long it took for him to hit the second building. As he went toward the building, I tried to get my camera over. By the time I looked down into the monitor, the monitor was just filled with fire. I said to Paul, "Did he just...?" That's as much as I got out. Paul said, "Yeah, he just hit the building." That was as the city watched it live on TV from different shots. I immediately started screaming back to the newsroom. "A second plane just hit the building!" I'll never forget the disbelief in the assignment editor's voice. He said, "John, what did you say?" With that we lost all our radio communication with the station. We went off the air because all our transmitters were on top of the World Trade Center. The picture went to snow, and that was it. The journalisticc competeitiveness that's always there --- where you want to get the story first --- was gone. You were just trying to figure out what was happening. In the back of your mind was the question of how to report this, knowing the whole city just watched this. How do you do this without creating absolute panic? - Running toward danger: stories behind the breaking news of 9/11 By Cathy Trost, Alicia C. Shepard, Newseum (2002) pp. 41-42 another quote from the same book, page 199: Quote: We stayed out there until almost 2 o'clock. They canceled clearances one by one. They'd say, "OK, that's a news helicopter, tell him to land. That's another news helicopter, tell him to land." Nobody was happier to get back on the ground than we were because we had just seen what was really a war zone. My pilot, a Vietnam veteran pilot, said to me, "I've seen jungles turn to green mist, but I've never seen stuff like this." Hear John talk on the air in a newly posted WABC broadcast: (at 8:23)
Posts: 350 Group: Members Member #7 Joined: Sep 27, 2008


Yougenedebs	Nov 1 2009, 01:51 AM Post #22
Posts: 218 Group: Perspectivist Member #182 Joined: Mar 30, 2009	So! It was John’s dialog (here at 8:25 vrt) that the History Channel planted under the images of the ‘moving bridge’ (seen here at vrt 3:21). I made the point in my recent video that “Hollywood” mixes and matches, splices and dices any footage they can get; here is a clear demonstration! Also, at 7:22, the Chopper X angle with the caption “LIVE” on the screen; which must be a mistake. Good work, Matt!



broken sticks	Nov 3 2009, 04:57 PM Post #23
Posts: 1,426 Group: Members Member #105 Joined: Jan 3, 2009	Matt Oct 31 2009, 09:28 PM I found another good quote from helicopter reporter John DelGiorno: Quote: Paul (Smith, the pilot) said to me, "Look at this yahoo flying into Newark like this." Paul was upset the air traffic controllers hadn't pointed him out. good find - this bit interested me. were ATC busy telling Midwest7 to get out the way? doesn't sound right. were ATC in communication with chopper 7 at all? it sounds like they were from this (to me), but its open to interpretation. Edited by broken sticks, Nov 3 2009, 04:57 PM.



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