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Chopper 7 Misidentified; this just in
Topic Started: Sep 10 2009, 02:27 AM (12,229 Views)
Matt
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Posted Image


ABC NewsCopter 7 has been credited with filming the most widely distributed footage of "Flight 175" crashing into the World Trade Center. Why?

When the first plane crash happened at 8:46:40, the helicopter was 14 miles away in Linden, NJ at the airport!


Quote:
 
The assignment desk calls us out to cover breaking news several
times a day. Usually the call comes from the desk over the Nextel radio
with the familiar 'beep, beep.' They wait for my reply. We are conditioned
to dread the 'beep, beep.' It means we have to go out and work.
I heard the infamous 'beep, beep.' Only this time it was different;
it was followed by my name, 'John,' in an inquisitive but urgent tone.
I sat back on the couch in our Linden, New Jersey hangar, and for
a second considered calling them back on the phone. But the phone
rang. It was one of our assignment editors.
'John,' she yelled, 'a plane just flew into the Twin Towers!
Just . . . just flew right into it! Go now!'
'We're gone.'

WABC-TV helicopter reporter John Del Giorno
FROM Allison Gilbert, Covering Catastrophe: Broadcast Journalists Report
September 11
(2002, Bonus Books) Chapter 1 available online at http://www.allisongilbert.com/


Within the next minute or two, he and pilot Paul Smith might have been able to fly. The problem is, ABC was broadcasting their chopper footage of the WTC at 8:51.


Posted Image
*** watch 8:51-9:01 ***


If NewsCopter 7 lifted off a minute and twenty seconds after the first crash, at 8:48 (just as the WNYW and WCBS-AM 880 first reports were airing news of the crash), it would have needed to travel an average speed of 280 MPH to reach the WTC 14 miles away (and much faster to reach the actual location of the 1st broadcast images in West New York, NJ, 17.1 miles away! Thanks, YougeneDebs). The chopper had a top speed of about 130 knots (or 149 MPH - source - airliners.net). Therefore, Chopper 7 wasn't the one filming for ABC at 8:51.

Posted Image

Remember the LIVE ABC 2nd plane impact footage had been continuous from 8:51 in "NewsCopter 7" (as ABC7 local declared with their graphic).


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So who filmed it?

Three guys in a traffic chopper.

Quote:
 
It was when the first plane hit, right about 8:48 a.m. I'm finishing a report talking about delays at the George Washington Bridge and see this fireball. It seemed so unreal. It was mind-boggling. We just started flying toward it. Even as the words were coming out of my mouth saying, "There's an explosion near the top of one of the towers," I still didn’t believe it.
— Brian McKinley, traffic reporter, Metro Networks/Shadow Broadcasting

http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=16674
from Running Toward Danger:Stories Behind the Breaking News of 9/11, (Rowan and Littlefield, 2002) By Cathy Trost, Alicia C. Shepard, Newseum

Quote:
 
I was in the helicopter, near the George Washington Bridge, and we had just made a turn to the south. It was 8:48 A.M.—time for what would normally be my last traffic report of the morning. I saw a flash and a fireball from the top of the World Trade Center.
- Tom Kaminski, Helicopter Reporter, WCBS-AM, New York
FROM Covering Catastrophe: Broadcast Journalists Report September 11th (2002, Bonus Books) p. 9 -- Chapter 1 available online at http://www.allisongilbert.com/

Quote:
 
A Pilot
Remembers

by Arthur Anderson

September 11, 2001, started out as a
beautiful day. Nice flying weather. It
was crystal clear with a strong wind,
and afforded good hovering conditions.
I was flying what we at the
base call "the radio ship" (N8BQ).
Onboard was Brian McKinley
reporting for 1130AM Bloomberg
Radio and Tom Kaminski for
880AM CBS Radio. Sometimes we
are required to do cut-ins for
WABC-TV in New York, so we were
also carrying television-broadcasting
equipment
(including a camera).
The radio ship has the longest
morning shift of all the news helicopters.
It usually launches at 6 a.m.
and runs till 9 a.m. Most of the
television ENG helicopters land
when the news goes national at 7 a.m.
It was late in our shift and we were
headed back to the base.
After looking at the traffic near
the Alexander Hamilton Bridge, we
had crossed over the George
Washington Bridge southbound,
when I noticed something odd. There
was an airplane flying over lower
Manhattan. You never see a plane
over lower Manhattan. I was working
LaGuardia Tower (LGA) when I saw
the plane fly into the north tower of
the World Trade Center. In my mind,
for a second, it was like a cartoon.
There was a hole in the shape of an
airplane in the side of the building! It
was just for an instant and then the
smoke and flame came billowing out.
Stunned, I asked LGA if they lost
one, and I could hear the confusion
and shock in their reply. They didn't
know what was going on either. I left
LGA airspace and headed into the
Hudson River Exclusion, where there
is no air traffic control. I flew southbound
toward the towers. We knew
we had to go and cover this story.
Brian and Tom (my onboard
reporters) were broadcasting and
they started rolling the camera. We
flew down to the site and it was just
incredible. Debris was falling. Smoke
and fire was billowing out from at
least 3 sides of the building. When I
first saw the plane, I had not realized
it was so big, but we soon figured out
that it must have been an airliner;
you just had to look at the destruction.
Everyone was trying to find out
what was happening. Brian and Tom
were doing a great job of story
coverage given the little information
we had. We started to feed video
to WABC Local News, who then
went national with Good Morning
America and it spread from
there
. At first we were the only news
helicopter in the air because the
other guys had landed around 7 am.
The first pictures the world saw were
taken from our ship. I radioed the
base to tell the other guys to get in
the air, but there was no answer. I
assumed they were on the way.
When they arrived at the scene, we
were all on the radio talking about
what we were seeing.
We continued to move around
the area, trying to view the different
angles. We had been in the area of
Chelsea (lower Manhattan), but then
moved down the Hudson and ended
up near the Colgate Clock in Jersey
City. We surveyed the damage to the
North Tower and decided to move
back up to the north side. When we
arrived back in the area of Chelsea,
unbelievably it happened again! One
of the other pilots said it was another
plane.
I had been facing north, so I
didn't see the plane, just the explosion
coming out of the building. It
was huge. And it was strange,
because of all the paper in the air; it
looked like confetti. I can't recall
who said it, but someone said it was a
terrorist attack. At that point I felt
like I had a target on my back. I
wondered, how many more planes
were out there?
Fuel. We needed fuel. It was the
end of our shift and we were coming
close to minimum fuel. I told Tom
and Brian I was going to Ridgefield
Park Heliport to refuel, and then
we'd get right back up. Also, NYPD
Aviation was telling everyone to clear
the immediate area. We landed and
refueled. I called Teterboro Tower to
depart from Ridgefield but they
directed us to stay on the ground.
"The airspace has been sterilized."
Sterilized? What did they mean?
We found out that not only was
Teterboro airspace closed but so were
Newark, Kennedy, and LaGuardia.
Brian and Tom continued to do
reports from the ground. And all I
could do was watch as the towers
burned and fell.

Arthur Anderson is Line Pilot for
Helicopters Inc. in New Jersey and flies
under contract to WABC in New York

- http://www.rotor.com/membership/rotor/rotorpdf/fall2003_04.pdf


Read that, then listen to the live radio show WCBS-AM 880:
http://donswaim.com/wcbs-wtc-9-11-01.mp3
Includes anchors Jeff Caplan and Pat Carroll. Also uses Channel 2 audio. Starts at 8:48 am (29:23 run time)
http://donswaim.com/wcbssoundpage.html



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John Del Giorno and NewsCopter 7

Quote:
 
The second airplane actually flew right past us.

- John Del Giorno, NY Times, Oct. 2007

Quote:
 
On September 11, 2001, News Copter 7 was airborne as the tragic events at the World Trade Center unfolded. John's coverage began as the second plane flew past his helicopter over New York Harbor and ended more than five hours later, his reports and images seen worldwide.

- http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/bio?section=resources/inside_station/newsteam&id=5771965

He says the plane flew "past us." His bio says that, too... which implies that the two aircraft were traveling in the same direction, and that 175 passed Chopper 7... or, more simply, that the two aircraft had a sort of interaction. Perhaps 175 flew "by" them or "in front of" them. Will we ever know?

WHERE IS THE CHOPPER 7 VIDEO?

Listen now to Shure's call to Del Giorno: http://www.pumpitout.com/audio/john_delgiorno_061407.mp3

John does say he filmed it, right? Or is he just trying to get off the phone?

How did pilot Paul Smith describe the experience? That is, before he was killed by a taxi that ran him over?

Quote:
 
The driver, Mohammed Chowdury, told reporters last night he was forced off the road by a black car that cut him off.
- http://www.flyarmy.org/DAT/datS/D01743.HTM



N8BQ - WCBS-AM 880 traffic copter

Posted Image
(2008 photo --- see http://nycaviation.com/forum/ldj-1-21-news...t10141s300.html )


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Posted Image
- http://cwair11.com/911.html
"A patch with all the tail numbers of all the News ships flying that day in NYC"




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Synchronized chopper footage, by genghis6199

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


Notice the new ABC chopper that shows up at 9:08/9:09 after the famous 9:06 WESCAM departure shot from Chopper 8BQ... who needed fuel.


Other choppers:

http://z15.invisionfree.com/911taboo/index.php?showtopic=1236

That 9:08 time seems to match with what Chopper 5 did from Caldwell, NJ (near Essex County Airport in Fairfield, NJ) according to FOX reporter Kai Simonsen:

Quote:
 
Sally: Kai can you start by telling me where you were the morning of Sept. 11?

Kai: I do the local Fox morning show from the air and we had just recently landed from the morning show and I had gotten paged with a text page from the news desk here at fox five that a plane had crashed into the WTC and that we should get flying right away and so we did that.

Sally: So you saw everything from the air?

Kai: I didn't see the first plane hit. Once we launched, we launch out of Caldwell, NJ, and once we came up in the air we saw a lot of smoke coming from the World Trade Center.

source interview 2001-09-25


Edited by Matt, Sep 10 2009, 09:50 PM.
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broken sticks
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omgwtfbbq!!

amazing work matt!

del giorno does indeed say he filmed it - and that they were still moving at the time. did he ever get back to jeff?

probably no point working out the speed that chopper 7 was going to get to that 9:08am position for the first shot we see of it, because who knows what sort of route it took, but omg, great work matt. where indeed is chopper 7's footage?!
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broken sticks
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*listens to WCBS-AM 880 mp3*

we should sync this up with the ABC coverage and see if it correlates with (for instance) that trip around to the south-west that we see on ABC at about 9am. i'll check that now.
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broken sticks
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broken sticks
Sep 10 2009, 09:32 AM
*listens to WCBS-AM 880 mp3*

we should sync this up with the ABC coverage and see if it correlates with (for instance) that trip around to the south-west that we see on ABC at about 9am. i'll check that now.
it pretty much syncs up as tom kaminsky says "we're getting a look at the south-side of tower 1" at about 9:01am.
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broken sticks
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although they're talking to tom as the 2nd hit takes place, and he doesn't say anything about it? wait, they're going back to him... he didn't see the plane, guess they were facing the other way (which makes sense given the chopper's direction of movement)
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broken sticks
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then he says they're off to refuel - it all adds up. matt, great work.
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seatnineb

F***in rock and roll !!

Great work Matt.....well spotted....its amazing that stuff like this has been in front of us all along!

As Stx says...where the f*** is that Chop 7 footage!?
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broken sticks
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just speculating...
did the FOX5 'marta' shot get allocated to a chopper already?
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Matt
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broken sticks
Sep 10 2009, 11:39 AM
just speculating...
did the FOX5 'marta' shot get allocated to a chopper already?
Good question.

Strange - if it were the real ABC Chopper 7 shot - that it would play exclusively on FOX.

Here's the point of perspective for the Marta shot: "hovering over Tonnele Ave, near Bleecker St and Terrace Ave in Jersey City, NJ at about 625 feet above sea level (above ground elevated at 11 feet);

40deg 45min 14.73sec N
74deg 03min 24.00sec W"

Thanks again, YougeneDebs


That one remains a mystery.
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broken sticks
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Matt
Sep 10 2009, 10:01 PM


Here's the point of perspective for the Marta shot: "hovering over Tonnele Ave, near Bleecker St and Terrace Ave in Jersey City, NJ at about 625 feet above sea level (above ground elevated at 11 feet);

40deg 45min 14.73sec N
74deg 03min 24.00sec W"

Thanks again, YougeneDebs


That one remains a mystery.
How does that play against the position of chopper 7 at 9:08am and the Linden hangar? i'll have a look
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broken sticks
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doesn't look like 'marta' is this chopper. it would have to have turned and gone south-east (towards the towers, during this "air-sterilization") to get to the 9:08am position, then turned back north in time for 9:08am heading

is it more likely that Chopper X is ABC7? could ABC7 have got to Chopper X's position in time?


edit.
i notice Chopper X's camera isn't moving at the start of that clip - it has what would have been such a perfect shot for "Flight 175" at that point.
Edited by broken sticks, Sep 10 2009, 11:44 PM.
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Matt
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I put up a 3-part video with the WCBS-AM audio and ABC video synchronized.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG_tVz1ZQu4 (LINK UPDATED after channel suspension and repuload)



And I think now that Chopper 7 was Chopper X.

Get this:

John Del Giorno, Helicopter Reporter, WABC-TV, New York

Quote:
 
We were climbing through eleven hundred feet toward an assigned altitude of fifteen hundred feet, and then we saw it. Paul Smith, my pilot, saw it before I did ---an airliner, traveling from south to north, traveling low and fast.

"Now what's this guy doing?" I asked Paul.

"You see this yahoo?" he shot back.

Paul was thinking the same thing I was: the jetliner was on an approach to Newark's shortest and most seldom used runway, and was, for some reason, slightly off course. Airplanes would come up from the south and then turn west near the Statue of Liberty onto final approach. Paul assumed that this airplane would do just that, and he was perturbed that Newark's air traffic controller hadn't advised us that there was an airplane in our vicinity.

I could see the rear profile with engines on both wings as it approached the statue. A Boeing 737, I thought. And then it dipped. Not a nice, gradual descent, but a brief dip and then a sharp turn to the right. Not a graceful, gradual airliner turn like you see in commercials; this was a sharp, abrupt turn that put the plane into a forty-five-degree bank, and it flew into the shade being created by the smoke plume from the north tower.

Something made me reach for the remote that controls our onboard tape deck and point our camera at the World Trade Center. I moved and focused the camera, placed the remote in my lap, pressed "play" and "record," and looked back up at my camera monitor. It now contained the image of a huge fireball.

"Did he just . . . ?" I said out loud to Paul. I couldn't get anything else out. I knew what had just happened.

"Holy sh!t," Paul said calmly. "Yeah. He just hit the building!"

"Chop 7, news desk!" I yelled into my two-way radio. "Another plane just hit the building!"

"What? What did you say?"

"Another plane just hit the building!"

I got no reply. My on-air television monitor turned to "snow." I called back on the radio and got no reply again. The station's transmitter and communication equipment were on top of the building. And it was all out of commission.

- Covering Catastrophe: Broadcast Journalists Report September 11, Chapter 2

Sounds like Chopper 7 started recording at the same time the Chopper X footage starts.

Edited by Matt, Jan 30 2010, 08:09 PM.
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Matt
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More evidence NewsCopter 7 shot the "X" footage---

A screenshot of the final credits of the TV show that aired the footage,
"Flight 175: As the World Watched"

ABC News Productions!

Posted Image
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broken sticks
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great find, matt!
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elephant room
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unbelievable ... good following the info Matt.

So by his statement that: My on-air television monitor turned to "snow."

indicates there should be footage before the Chopper 7 (formerly chopper x) camera, right?
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