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| Chopper 7 Misidentified; this just in | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 10 2009, 07:27 AM (452 Views) | |
| Matt | Sep 10 2009, 07:27 AM Post #1 |
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![]() ABC NewsCopter 7 has been credited with filming the most widely distributed footage of "Flight 175" crashing into the World Trade Center. Why? When the first plane crash happened at 8:46:40, the helicopter was 14 miles away in Linden, NJ at the airport!
WABC-TV helicopter reporter John Del Giorno FROM Allison Gilbert, Covering Catastrophe: Broadcast Journalists Report September 11 (2002, Bonus Books) Chapter 1 available online at http://www.allisongilbert.com/ Within the next minute or two, he and pilot Paul Smith might have been able to fly. The problem is, ABC was broadcasting their chopper footage of the WTC at 8:51. ![]() *** watch 8:51-9:01 *** If NewsCopter 7 lifted off a minute and twenty seconds after the first crash, at 8:48 (just as the WNYW and WCBS-AM 880 first reports were airing news of the crash), it would have needed to travel an average speed of 280 MPH to reach the WTC 14 miles away (and much faster to reach the actual location of the 1st broadcast images in West New York, NJ, 17.1 miles away! Thanks, YougeneDebs). The chopper had a top speed of about 130 knots (or 149 MPH - source - airliners.net). Therefore, Chopper 7 wasn't the one filming for ABC at 8:51. ![]() Remember the LIVE ABC 2nd plane impact footage had been continuous from 8:51 in "NewsCopter 7" (as ABC7 local declared with their graphic). <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> So who filmed it? Three guys in a traffic chopper.
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=16674 from Running Toward Danger:Stories Behind the Breaking News of 9/11, (Rowan and Littlefield, 2002) By Cathy Trost, Alicia C. Shepard, Newseum - Tom Kaminski, Helicopter Reporter, WCBS-AM, New York FROM Covering Catastrophe: Broadcast Journalists Report September 11th (2002, Bonus Books) p. 9 -- Chapter 1 available online at http://www.allisongilbert.com/
- http://www.rotor.com/membership/rotor/rotorpdf/fall2003_04.pdf Read that, then listen to the live radio show WCBS-AM 880: http://donswaim.com/wcbs-wtc-9-11-01.mp3 Includes anchors Jeff Caplan and Pat Carroll. Also uses Channel 2 audio. Starts at 8:48 am (29:23 run time) http://donswaim.com/wcbssoundpage.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> John Del Giorno and NewsCopter 7
- John Del Giorno, NY Times, Oct. 2007
- http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/bio?section=resources/inside_station/newsteam&id=5771965 He says the plane flew "past us." His bio says that, too... which implies that the two aircraft were traveling in the same direction, and that 175 passed Chopper 7... or, more simply, that the two aircraft had a sort of interaction. Perhaps 175 flew "by" them or "in front of" them. Will we ever know? WHERE IS THE CHOPPER 7 VIDEO? Listen now to Shure's call to Del Giorno: http://www.pumpitout.com/audio/john_delgiorno_061407.mp3 John does say he filmed it, right? Or is he just trying to get off the phone? How did pilot Paul Smith describe the experience? That is, before he was killed by a taxi that ran him over? - http://www.flyarmy.org/DAT/datS/D01743.HTM N8BQ - WCBS-AM 880 traffic copter (2008 photo --- see http://nycaviation.com/forum/ldj-1-21-news...t10141s300.html ) <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ![]() - http://cwair11.com/911.html "A patch with all the tail numbers of all the News ships flying that day in NYC" <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Synchronized chopper footage, by genghis6199 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Notice the new ABC chopper that shows up at 9:08/9:09 after the famous 9:06 WESCAM departure shot from Chopper 8BQ... who needed fuel. Other choppers: http://z15.invisionfree.com/911taboo/index.php?showtopic=1236 That 9:08 time seems to match with what Chopper 5 did from Caldwell, NJ (near Essex County Airport in Fairfield, NJ) according to FOX reporter Kai Simonsen:
source interview 2001-09-25 Edited by Matt, Sep 11 2009, 02:50 AM.
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| broken sticks | Sep 10 2009, 02:27 PM Post #2 |
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omgwtfbbq!! amazing work matt! del giorno does indeed say he filmed it - and that they were still moving at the time. did he ever get back to jeff? probably no point working out the speed that chopper 7 was going to get to that 9:08am position for the first shot we see of it, because who knows what sort of route it took, but omg, great work matt. where indeed is chopper 7's footage?! |
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| broken sticks | Sep 10 2009, 02:32 PM Post #3 |
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*listens to WCBS-AM 880 mp3* we should sync this up with the ABC coverage and see if it correlates with (for instance) that trip around to the south-west that we see on ABC at about 9am. i'll check that now. |
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| broken sticks | Sep 10 2009, 02:43 PM Post #4 |
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it pretty much syncs up as tom kaminsky says "we're getting a look at the south-side of tower 1" at about 9:01am. |
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| broken sticks | Sep 10 2009, 02:47 PM Post #5 |
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although they're talking to tom as the 2nd hit takes place, and he doesn't say anything about it? wait, they're going back to him... he didn't see the plane, guess they were facing the other way (which makes sense given the chopper's direction of movement) |
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| broken sticks | Sep 10 2009, 02:48 PM Post #6 |
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then he says they're off to refuel - it all adds up. matt, great work. |
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| seatnineb | Sep 10 2009, 04:16 PM Post #7 |
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F***in rock and roll !! Great work Matt.....well spotted....its amazing that stuff like this has been in front of us all along! As Stx says...where the f*** is that Chop 7 footage!? |
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| broken sticks | Sep 10 2009, 04:39 PM Post #8 |
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just speculating... did the FOX5 'marta' shot get allocated to a chopper already? |
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| Matt | Sep 11 2009, 03:01 AM Post #9 |
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Good question. Strange - if it were the real ABC Chopper 7 shot - that it would play exclusively on FOX. Here's the point of perspective for the Marta shot: "hovering over Tonnele Ave, near Bleecker St and Terrace Ave in Jersey City, NJ at about 625 feet above sea level (above ground elevated at 11 feet); 40deg 45min 14.73sec N 74deg 03min 24.00sec W" Thanks again, YougeneDebs That one remains a mystery. |
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| broken sticks | Sep 11 2009, 03:50 AM Post #10 |
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How does that play against the position of chopper 7 at 9:08am and the Linden hangar? i'll have a look |
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| broken sticks | Sep 11 2009, 04:40 AM Post #11 |
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doesn't look like 'marta' is this chopper. it would have to have turned and gone south-east (towards the towers, during this "air-sterilization") to get to the 9:08am position, then turned back north in time for 9:08am heading is it more likely that Chopper X is ABC7? could ABC7 have got to Chopper X's position in time? edit. i notice Chopper X's camera isn't moving at the start of that clip - it has what would have been such a perfect shot for "Flight 175" at that point. Edited by broken sticks, Sep 11 2009, 04:44 AM.
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| Matt | Sep 13 2009, 04:36 AM Post #12 |
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I put up a 3-part video with the WCBS-AM audio and ABC video synchronized. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7DTmK-LVG4 And I think now that Chopper 7 was Chopper X. Get this: John Del Giorno, Helicopter Reporter, WABC-TV, New York
- Covering Catastrophe: Broadcast Journalists Report September 11, Chapter 2 Sounds like Chopper 7 started recording at the same time the Chopper X footage starts. |
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| Matt | Sep 13 2009, 05:14 AM Post #13 |
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More evidence NewsCopter 7 shot the "X" footage--- A screenshot of the final credits of the TV show that aired the footage, "Flight 175: As the World Watched" ABC News Productions!
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| broken sticks | Sep 13 2009, 09:20 AM Post #14 |
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great find, matt! |
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| elephant room | Sep 14 2009, 04:41 PM Post #15 |
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unbelievable ... good following the info Matt. So by his statement that: My on-air television monitor turned to "snow." indicates there should be footage before the Chopper 7 (formerly chopper x) camera, right? |
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1:03 PM Nov 25