| iran protest; election | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 15 2009, 01:55 PM (871 Views) | |
| Bugg | Jun 16 2009, 05:52 PM Post #21 |
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Not opposed to any of those options, but reality means for the time being we are going to need oil, and growing demand from India and China means the price will rise.Drilling makes more oil available domestically and cheaply. |
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| piney | Jun 16 2009, 05:54 PM Post #22 |
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he.....is....so....cruel |
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| Ernie | Jun 16 2009, 08:52 PM Post #23 |
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Obama is showing absolutely no guts in his words of "support" for the protesters. Compare what he said to the words of French President Sarkozy, who called the election a fraud. Obama is wishy-washy on this one. Stand tall for citizens fighting for freedom, Mr. President. Let them know they have your support. |
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| Bugg | Jun 16 2009, 10:13 PM Post #24 |
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In fairness though, so what? What can anyone do or say that will susbtantively change these crazy fuckers? You guys are missing the point-I don't care about these people any more. Suspect more and more Americans are also coming to the conclusion that talking with these people is pointless. Imadinthehead and his opponenet are both certified whack job America-hating loons. And I'm at a loss why anyone cares. I don't care who deals the cards in the asylum as long as we aren't playing. |
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| Klecko73isGod | Jun 16 2009, 10:22 PM Post #25 |
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The quickest way to get those people to do exactly the opposite of what we want is to make clear what we want to happen. |
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| chicadeel | Jun 17 2009, 07:05 AM Post #26 |
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I disagree with you Ernie. The President should just state something about democracy and freedom to give encouragement to the people struggling there. It's better to sit on the sidelines and give encouragement, than to appear to be influencing the outcome. Let other countries voice strong opposition. This way the excuse of American influence cannot be used as a Iranian diversionary tactic to rally the anti-American crowd. Edited by chicadeel, Jun 17 2009, 07:06 AM.
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| Klecko73isGod | Jun 17 2009, 07:18 AM Post #27 |
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Ernie is simply exercising the Republican Party's new favorite tactic: take the opposite viewpoint of anything and everything President Obama says because the base of the party (all 12 of them) will love it. Doesn't matter if that opposing viewpoint makes you look like a thoughtless meathead, if it's the opposite of Obama - it's AOK. |
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| Ernie | Jun 17 2009, 07:35 AM Post #28 |
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Wrong, your guy gave a weak, wishy-washy response. Embarassing, one could argue. Here is a good take on the situation. How President McCain Might Have Handled Iran Posted: 06/16/09 Days like today are one reason I supported the no-nonsense war hero John McCain over Barack Obama. After the presidential election in Iran was apparently stolen, thousands of protesters took to the streets. Instead of the United States boldly supporting the cause of liberty, and defending dissidents, President Obama meekly said, "It's not productive given the history of U.S.-Iranian relations to be seen as meddling." That -- of course -- was not a great moment in leadership. President John F. Kennedy did not say we would "bear any burden -- so long as we don't interfere." Nor can one imagine Winston Churchill saying, "We will fight on the land -- so long as we don't meddle." Nor can one imagine Ronald Reagan saying "Tear down this wall! -- if you're cool with it..." If the strongest nation in the free world is not willing to take a stand and at least provide moral support for those willing to risk their lives for liberty, the America I know is long gone. While it is understandable for Obama to not invade a nation over this injustice, it is quite another thing to not even bother to forcefully condemn it. Having a humble foreign policy does not preclude one from moral clarity. Meanwhile, Republican House Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.) released a statement calling on Obama to "take a strong public position in the face of violence and human rights abuses." Cantor added that the United States has a "moral responsibility to lead in opposition to Iran's extreme response to peaceful protests." Cantor's full remarks are here. We'll never know what President McCain would have said, but it's pretty safe to say that he would have taken a forceful stand -- once again positioning America as a beacon of freedom and the last, best hope on Earth. Instead, we risk becoming a cynical nation that makes decisions based on perceived short-term diplomatic gain. That's not change I can believe in. http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/06/16/how-president-mccain-might-have-handled-iran/ |
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| Klecko73isGod | Jun 17 2009, 07:37 AM Post #29 |
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![]() Bullshit posturing is not diplomacy. Edited by Klecko73isGod, Jun 17 2009, 07:38 AM.
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| Plumberkhan | Jun 17 2009, 07:48 AM Post #30 |
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YEAH! We should have definitely taken the side of the protesters! That way, the authoratarian government would have viewed them as tools of a foreign government and they maybe would have rounded up thousands of them and killed them! What a bunch of stupid f***ing retards Republicans are. It's no wonder the morons aren't in power anymore... Edited by Plumberkhan, Jun 17 2009, 07:49 AM.
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| Ernie | Jun 17 2009, 07:51 AM Post #31 |
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Profanity.
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| Plumberkhan | Jun 17 2009, 07:55 AM Post #32 |
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Relax, Gramps...I edited it. There are no other words to describe the utter stupidity of the Republican Party anymore. All they have left is some bimbo from Alaska whose only shtick is to say stuff about what other people say about her...she has absolutely no substance whatsoever. And the rest of the party is a bunch of reactionary morons. Sad sad sad.... |
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| Ernie | Jun 17 2009, 07:55 AM Post #33 |
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I'm sorry, you guys are way off on this one. Presidents past would have stepped up to the plate. Obama was scared to get out of the on-deck circle, he doesn't want to "offend" other regimes. After all, he is a "citizen of the world". Just look at the difference in response of Obama and Sarkozy. Sarkozy denounces Iran vote 'fraud' 1 day ago PARIS (AFP) — French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Tuesday branded Iran's election result a fraud as the international outcry over the security forces' crackdown on the opposition in Tehran intensified. Governments from Asia to Europe voiced concern about the violence that erupted Monday during rallies protesting the hardliner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's re-election, with US President Barack Obama saying he had "deep concerns" while also not wanting to meddle in Iran's affairs. But while some governments tried to avoid taking sides, Sarkozy said the unrest was a direct result of Ahmadinejad's failings in his first term. "The extent of the fraud is proportional to the violent reaction," said the French leader. "It is a tragedy, but it is not negative to have a real opinion movement that tries to break its chains," Sarkozy said. "If Ahmadinejad has really made progress since the last election and if he really represents two thirds of the electorate... why has this violence erupted?" At least seven people were killed on Monday in street battles between the security forces and supporters of Iran's former prime minister Mir Hossein Mousavi who claim that their man was cheated of victory in Friday's poll. British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said questions about the validity of the outcome needed to be answered and that the violent scenes threatened Iran's international standing. "The regime must address the serious questions which have been asked about the conduct of the Iranian elections," said Brown. "The way the regime responds to legitimate protests will have implications for Iran's relationships with the rest of the world in the future." German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said there "must be an end to the violence carried out by the security forces on demonstrators" while his Dutch counterpart Maxime Verhagen summoned the Iranian charge d'affaires. "It cannot be that peaceful demonstrations are broken up violently," a statement issued by his office said. In Japan, Foreign Minister Hirofumi Nakasone said his country was "extremely concerned" about the situation while Australia's Foreign Minister Stephen Smith expressed his disquiet over "images of serious human rights abuses that we've seen on camera and in photos." Rights groups also denounced the bloody crackdown with the New York-based Human Rights Watch saying the Ahmadinejad government "has a responsibility to stop the use of unlawful force against protesters." Despite the welter of criticism, Iran remained defiant and diplomats from Britain and the Czech Republic -- the current holders of the EU presidency -- were summoned in protest. "Neither the European Union nor other countries are in a position to have the right to make rude and interfering remarks against Iran, especially about our glorious election," Czech charge d'affaires Josef Havlas was told. Obama meanwhile said he would not meddle in internal Iranian politics -- reflecting a more widespread reluctance of governments to be sucked into the maelstrom. "I have said before that I have deep concerns about the election. I think that the world has deep concerns about the election," Obama said. "It is not productive, given the history of US-Iranian relations to be seen as meddling -- the US president meddling in Iranian elections." British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said it was important to avoid the impression that it was "a pro-West versus an anti-West competition in Iran. "It is a competition to reflect the will of the Iranian people and I think that we have to hold fast to that point," he said. The government in Russia -- Iran's key ally -- also said it was not up to outsiders to judge what was going on in Iran. "The issue of the elections in Iran is an internal affair of the Iranian people," Russian deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told reporters in the Russian city of Yekaterinburg, where Ahmadinejad was attending a summit. In defiant comments there, Ahmadinejad sent a message to the West: "The international capitalist order is retreating... It is absolutely obvious that the age of empires has ended and its revival will not take place." |
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| Klecko73isGod | Jun 17 2009, 08:05 AM Post #34 |
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Since when did the French President have the same power or influence of the American President? Sarkozy talks tough and the Iranians shrug and go about their business because the French ran screaming like a bunch of fairies from the middle east decades ago. OUR President opens his mouth on a middle east issue and all hell breaks loose. Grow a brain. |
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| Plumberkhan | Jun 17 2009, 08:42 AM Post #35 |
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Speak softly and carry a big stick. |
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| DoubleDown | Jun 17 2009, 08:53 AM Post #36 |
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Bingo. If Obama came out strongly and sided with the protesters, Republicans would be criticizing him for encouraging chaos and instability in the region. It's literally a situation of "he can't win." I agree with Obama in this situation. There is no reason why we need to be at the forefront when other countries are taking initiative. Why add fuel to the fire? Our position is on the side of democracy, but we don't have to be the lead detective of the world police all the time. |
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| Ernie | Jun 17 2009, 10:23 AM Post #37 |
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Agreed, but Obama is speaking softly and not particularly well endowed.
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| Ernie | Jun 17 2009, 10:28 AM Post #38 |
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| Klecko73isGod | Jun 17 2009, 10:34 AM Post #39 |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVr9Pc3bhD8 Was Ronald Reagan a bigg wuss too? Edited by Klecko73isGod, Jun 17 2009, 10:35 AM.
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| Bugg | Jun 17 2009, 10:37 AM Post #40 |
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And the substantive difference between President Obama and President Mccain operationally would be ....nothing. Either way Iran will be governed by an American-hating crazy. What would be different would be ANY president who looked at this, called these nuts crazy and decided to adopt an actual energy policy, something we haven't had in forever. We aren't going to bear any burden. Stop pretending we will. It's pretty much where Bush went off the rails. |
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8:20 PM Jul 10