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iran protest; election
Topic Started: Jun 15 2009, 01:55 PM (869 Views)
bitonti
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99% pure draft
the choice between these two is marginal... people are outraged over something but it's not really about the election... ya know things are screwy when the supreme leader orders a review of the election for President.

will grant this much to the W fanboys out there... the idea of Democracy in Iraq and Lebenon, however misguided might have opened the conversation for Iran's protests today... a neo con can spin this as a victory for Democracy in the region... and that may be true...

but in the bigger picture, one could contend wanting a democracy in Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan is wishful thinking... it's too delicate of a system of government and the situation aren't really ready. Democracy is easy when there is opportunity and education... it's not so easy when the economy is "developing" and there is a threat of bombs.

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Klecko73isGod

bitonti
Jun 15 2009, 01:55 PM
the choice between these two is marginal... people are outraged over something but it's not really about the election... ya know things are screwy when the supreme leader orders a review of the election for President.

will grant this much to the W fanboys out there... the idea of Democracy in Iraq and Lebenon, however misguided might have opened the conversation for Iran's protests today... a neo con can spin this as a victory for Democracy in the region... and that may be true...

but in the bigger picture, one could contend wanting a democracy in Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan is wishful thinking... it's too delicate of a system of government and the situation aren't really ready. Democracy is easy when there is opportunity and education... it's not so easy when the economy is "developing" and there is a threat of bombs.

From what I saw over the weekend, the fear with Amanejihad is that he has close ties to the military and even the Ayatollah fears a coup where he boots the clerics and turns the country into a military dictatorship.

The fact that he was brazen enough to falsify the election results suggests the clerics' fear is justified.
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flushingjet

still more laughs - thanks for exceeding my minimum daily requirement

no one deserves democracy unless they could afford it
or are literate

tell that to the Minutemen

Iran by any measure is one of the 20 largest economies
thanks to being awash in oil

Iran is 77% literate

is that good enuf? *chuckle*

there's nothing like a lib when it comes to defending a murderous dictatorship - especially an Israel-hating lib
defending Iran's crackdown of liberty
Edited by flushingjet, Jun 15 2009, 02:32 PM.
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Klecko73isGod

flushingjet
Jun 15 2009, 02:31 PM
still more laughs - thanks for exceeding my minimum daily requirement

no one deserves democracy unless they could afford it
or are literate

tell that to the Minutemen

Iran by any measure is one of the 20 largest economies
thanks to being awash in oil

Iran is 77% literate

is that good enuf? *chuckle*

there's nothing like a lib when it comes to defending a murderous dictatorship - especially an Israel-hating lib
defending Iran's crackdown of liberty
Another thing you forgot about Iran:

The Iranian regime is about 1000% more tolerant of differing opinions than you are. :rolleyes:
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Ernie
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Klecko73isGod
Jun 15 2009, 02:34 PM
flushingjet
Jun 15 2009, 02:31 PM
still more laughs - thanks for exceeding my minimum daily requirement

no one deserves democracy unless they could afford it
or are literate

tell that to the Minutemen

Iran by any measure is one of the 20 largest economies
thanks to being awash in oil

Iran is 77% literate

is that good enuf? *chuckle*

there's nothing like a lib when it comes to defending a murderous dictatorship - especially an Israel-hating lib
defending Iran's crackdown of liberty
Another thing you forgot about Iran:

The Iranian regime is about 1000% more tolerant of differing opinions than you are. :rolleyes:
:O
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flushingjet

Klecko73isGod
Jun 15 2009, 02:34 PM
flushingjet
Jun 15 2009, 02:31 PM
still more laughs - thanks for exceeding my minimum daily requirement

no one deserves democracy unless they could afford it
or are literate

tell that to the Minutemen

Iran by any measure is one of the 20 largest economies
thanks to being awash in oil

Iran is 77% literate

is that good enuf? *chuckle*

there's nothing like a lib when it comes to defending a murderous dictatorship - especially an Israel-hating lib
defending Iran's crackdown of liberty
Another thing you forgot about Iran:

The Iranian regime is about 1000% more tolerant of differing opinions than you are. :rolleyes:
so, Ahmanutjob doesnt want to kill jews anymore?
must have missed that memo

i though jews for jesus were "different"....jews for allah like you are off the reservation

i'm only tolerant of normalcy... not of dysfunctional anti-American, self-hating, paranoid schizophrenics like you and biscotti



Edited by flushingjet, Jun 15 2009, 03:10 PM.
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Klecko73isGod

flushingjet
 
so, Ahmanutjob doesnt want to kill jews anymore?
must have missed that memo


Where did I say that? No as a matter of fact I was the one who posted that he was more dangerous than the Ayatollahs. Learn how to fucking read.

Quote:
 
i though jews for jesus were "different"....jews for allah like you are off the reservation
Making shit up again? What fucking planet do you come from?

Quote:
 
i'm only tolerant of normalcy... not of dysfunctional anti-American, self-hating, paranoid schizophrenics like you and biscotti
:rofl:

I think we'd all like to know what your definition of "normal" is. You make the Taliban look like Phil Donahue and Marlo Thomas.



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dcJet

flushingjet
Jun 15 2009, 02:31 PM

there's nothing like a lib when it comes to defending a murderous dictatorship - especially an Israel-hating lib
defending Iran's crackdown of liberty
Who is defending Iran's dictatorship and crackdown? Link please?

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flushingjet

dcJet
Jun 15 2009, 04:17 PM
flushingjet
Jun 15 2009, 02:31 PM

there's nothing like a lib when it comes to defending a murderous dictatorship - especially an Israel-hating lib
defending Iran's crackdown of liberty
Who is defending Iran's dictatorship and crackdown? Link please?

uh, the silly little man who started the thread

go back & read post #1 - heck ill parse it for you so you understand it better

will grant this much to the W fanboys out there...
(painful concession to superior intellects)

the idea of Democracy in Iraq and Lebenon, however misguided
(Democracy is only good enough for some - very patronizing)

might have opened the conversation for Iran's protests today...
(thats an understatement)

a neo con can spin this as a victory for Democracy in the region...
(only "neo-cons" care about Democracy in the world?)

and that may be true...
(2nd painful concession)

but in the bigger picture,
(but, hold the phone! if I include all the nations around Iran)

one could contend wanting a democracy in Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan is wishful thinking...
(I'm having 2nd thoughts about what I said above, these people dont deserve freedom)

it's too delicate of a system of government and the situation aren't really ready.
(Democracy needs to have A. B & C happen like a recipe or formula *chuckle*)

Democracy is easy when there is opportunity and education...
(Iran is 77% literate especially Tehran - theyre so dumb theyre making weapons and A-bombs)

it's not so easy when the economy is "developing"
(The economy is one of the worlds top 20)

and there is a threat of bombs.
(Nuke their own people or someone else is too scary to consider, so might as well just let live in tyranny to preserve a murderous status quo)

Well, there ya go.
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piney
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flushingjet
Jun 16 2009, 07:53 AM
dcJet
Jun 15 2009, 04:17 PM

Quoting limited to 2 levels deep
uh, the silly little man who started the thread

go back & read post #1 - heck ill parse it for you so you understand it better

will grant this much to the W fanboys out there...
(painful concession to superior intellects)

the idea of Democracy in Iraq and Lebenon, however misguided
(Democracy is only good enough for some - very patronizing)

might have opened the conversation for Iran's protests today...
(thats an understatement)

a neo con can spin this as a victory for Democracy in the region...
(only "neo-cons" care about Democracy in the world?)

and that may be true...
(2nd painful concession)

but in the bigger picture,
(but, hold the phone! if I include all the nations around Iran)

one could contend wanting a democracy in Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan is wishful thinking...
(I'm having 2nd thoughts about what I said above, these people dont deserve freedom)

it's too delicate of a system of government and the situation aren't really ready.
(Democracy needs to have A. B & C happen like a recipe or formula *chuckle*)

Democracy is easy when there is opportunity and education...
(Iran is 77% literate especially Tehran - theyre so dumb theyre making weapons and A-bombs)

it's not so easy when the economy is "developing"
(The economy is one of the worlds top 20)

and there is a threat of bombs.
(Nuke their own people or someone else is too scary to consider, so might as well just let live in tyranny to preserve a murderous status quo)

Well, there ya go.
these people seem to be begging for democracy while the minority somehow is capable of oppressing them....I don't know if it is our job to spread democracy around the world, but hopefully the youth of these countries start flexing their muscles and clean up their own messes.


Seems to me American Idol is a more powerful weapon than an M-16
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bitonti
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99% pure draft
I don't understand why it's any of our business what governments these countries run... it's not like they are paying our taxes.

we say we want democracy... ok what happens when terrorist groups like Hamas get democratically elected? if you give the right to vote to people, that assumes they will make good decisions.
Edited by bitonti, Jun 16 2009, 11:01 AM.
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BobB

bitonti
Jun 16 2009, 11:00 AM
I don't understand why it's any of our business what governments these countries run... it's not like they are paying our taxes.

we say we want democracy... ok what happens when terrorist groups like Hamas get democratically elected? if you give the right to vote to people, that assumes they will make good decisions.
Anything is better then this right now. The Shah was better then this he kept the loonies under control.
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dcJet

Flush, you and Piney are arguing about what is the best way to get democracy into the Middle East. You want an agressive, hands on approach and Piney wants a patient approach. That does not mean that Piney is defending the dictatorship. It means his opinion on how to deal with it is different than yours and I agree with him. Why do you have to twist the words? No one is defending the dictatorship, we just don't like your alternative of shoving democracy in by force.
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flushingjet

?
I was critiquing the 1st poster, bertolli, 's paternalistic attitude towards democracy in Iran and explained not once but twice over why some of his statements are incorrect. Nothing to do w/ Piney.

Furthermore I didn't say anything about what I think should be done in Iran and by who.
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flushingjet

bitonti
Jun 16 2009, 11:00 AM
I don't understand why it's any of our business what governments these countries run... it's not like they are paying our taxes.

we say we want democracy... ok what happens when terrorist groups like Hamas get democratically elected? if you give the right to vote to people, that assumes they will make good decisions.
if what other countries do affects our/the world's business or survival it is our/the world's business -
as the world knows too well "stability" of nations without democracy affects it negatively

democracy is for all not just who you think it should be great white father-theres no freaking litmus test-of course the righteous and intelligent want democracy - it's the best system for libs and patriotic Americans alike-unless libs dont like the outcome-then democracy must be subverted via the judicial system until a "good" result they do like is coughed up

however, democracy isn't automatic, it takes effort in democracies there is a symbiotic relationship where
the govt protects its people and the people support the govt - when people elect Hamas or a Hitler and
democracy is suspended / destroyed its no longer democracy

that's the downside to democracy and freedom
sometimes people use their freedom to make genuinely stupid decisions-take b. hussein, or carter as president...please

anyway, more democracy in the ME/world is a good thing and should be encouraged


Edited by flushingjet, Jun 16 2009, 01:49 PM.
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piney
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flushingjet
Jun 16 2009, 12:55 PM
?
I was critiquing the 1st poster, bertolli, 's paternalistic attitude towards democracy in Iran and explained not once but twice over why some of his statements are incorrect. Nothing to do w/ Piney.

Furthermore I didn't say anything about what I think should be done in Iran and by who.
woohoo this may be my first flushingjet tongue in cheek insult free post!!!! that has to be a milestone!
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Klecko73isGod

flushingjet
Jun 16 2009, 01:42 PM
bitonti
Jun 16 2009, 11:00 AM
I don't understand why it's any of our business what governments these countries run... it's not like they are paying our taxes.

we say we want democracy... ok what happens when terrorist groups like Hamas get democratically elected? if you give the right to vote to people, that assumes they will make good decisions.
if what other countries do affects our/the world's business or survival it is our/the world's business -
as the world knows too well "stability" of nations without democracy affects it negatively

democracy is for all not just who you think it should be great white father-theres no freaking litmus test-of course the righteous and intelligent want democracy - it's the best system for libs and patriotic Americans alike-unless libs dont like the outcome-then democracy must be subverted via the judicial system until a "good" result they do like is coughed up

however, democracy isn't automatic, it takes effort in democracies there is a symbiotic relationship where
the govt protects its people and the people support the govt - when people elect Hamas or a Hitler and
democracy is suspended / destroyed its no longer democracy

that's the downside to democracy and freedom
sometimes people use their freedom to make genuinely stupid decisions-take b. hussein, or carter as president...please

anyway, more democracy in the ME/world is a good thing and should be encouraged


It's this attitude that makes you look like a retarded asshole. It also suggests you hate democracy and freedom a lot more than they do.

Having a different opinion does not mean someone loves their country any less than you do. In fact, suggesting that someone is less patriotic than you based on their opinions suggests you don't really understand what this country is all about.
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Bugg

No fan of President Obama. But there are no good choices or real options here. As a conservative the only way out of this Middle East mess is to let these people keep making a mess, disengage and leave both Iraq and Afgahnistan. Sooner rather than later.

And drill everywhere.


Islam is peace. Right! Islam objectively is a disaster. Yes, we objectively can say so. There is no Western regime that's a Theocracy like Iran and the Saudis and others are in the ME.

Islam in the ME makes it alien to anything in our experience. Solidarity wasn't thinking dumping the Soviets was going to usher in Pope John Paul II's rule followed shortly thereafter by the 2nd Coming. The Soviets and East Germany had rational thought and knew civic religion notwithstanding their totalitarian leaders weren't divine and the system wasn't working long-term. And China and Japan were willing to ditch god leaders once it became clear they were very human. How do the mullahs or Saudi royals suddenly allow the people to consider Allah has failed them? It is not happening.

Islam doesn't allow for that, it's all encompassing. Brutally and honestly unless and until you can divorce governance from the 7th centry death cult we shouldn't really care about these people other than stopping the from killing us.It's group psychosis. Figure out ways to stop buying their oil. And that means drill, unless you like $4 gas.

As to Israel, let the dog off his leash, if only for a while. If Imadinthehead wants to stand on the Israeli lawn all day raving about how he wants to kill all the Jews while waving a loaded nuclear .38, past time to allow Israel to take him at his word and defend themselves. And nothing
stops the neighborhood bullies faster than the neighborhood nerd kicking the piss out of said bully.
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bitonti
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99% pure draft
piney
Jun 16 2009, 02:00 PM
flushingjet
Jun 16 2009, 12:55 PM
?
I was critiquing the 1st poster, bertolli, 's paternalistic attitude towards democracy in Iran and explained not once but twice over why some of his statements are incorrect. Nothing to do w/ Piney.

Furthermore I didn't say anything about what I think should be done in Iran and by who.
woohoo this may be my first flushingjet tongue in cheek insult free post!!!! that has to be a milestone!
he called me the name of a jarred tomato sauce, that's about as insulting as it gets in my house
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bitonti
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99% pure draft
Bugg
Jun 16 2009, 03:28 PM
Figure out ways to stop buying their oil. And that means drill, unless you like $4 gas.
there are many many other options than just drill or buy from terrorists.
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