Split your above post contradicts itself up and down
I really think that a lot of you have never seen how bad these paces are and have no concept of the scope or danger that exists from these islamists and similar groups. It really feels like you just can't grasp that people are like that.
I'll wait until I'm at a computer again to break down why you're still wrong and in my opinion dangerously naive
Gitche Manitou will eat these pale face sinners hearts and scatter their ashes to the 4 winds.
You might actually like some of these guys, Cbear. Harris is one of most anti-Islam guys you'll ever come across. Dawkins' basically states that he sees the big three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) as more or less the same and leaves it at that. Harris however, is pretty explicit in his belief that Islam is far worse than Christianity. I'm not much of a fan of his, but I'm willing to meet you in the middle
Hitchens is another guy that came across as a goddam lilberal, but was one of the most outspoken neo-cons and supporters of the Iraqi War 10 years ago. In fact, he died after having alienated many of his followers because of this.
Not true
He says the old testament is worse than the Koran, but that nobody takes it very seriously any more in any significant percentage. Islam, however does have a significant minority that does.
Harris references the terrible things that are written about in the Old Testament, but also points out that the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus act as a counterweight to the Old Testament and softens the message of the Bible. He also argues, that there is no such counterweight in the Koran.
Personally, I don't agree with him. I think man shapes religion more than religion shapes man. If you were to take religion out of the Middle East, you'd still have strongmen fighting over control of oil, you'd still have a largely barren desert that stunted economic growth, you'd still have the repercussions of Sykes-Picot that drew arbitrary lines though ethnic groups, etc. Religion just acts as a steroid that radicalizes political differences to an extreme.
Regardless of my thoughts though, Harris is pretty clear that he doesn't view Islam and Christianity as equal.
Are you arguing that what preceded them wasn't fucking awful?
Come on, Nate. I'm not arguing anything. I'd just summarized some of Harris' views and now you're trying to defend the guy. Agree with him or don't agree with agree him. I don't care. But there's nothing that I wrote that he hasn't stated publicly.
I'll clarify
Before the countries were drawn up would you say the place wasn't a festering hell hole?
I really think that a lot of you have never seen how bad these paces are and have no concept of the scope or danger that exists from these islamists and similar groups. It really feels like you just can't grasp that people are like that.
Don't tell me they, like, behead people and stuff.
Ive lost track on what this thread is supposed to be about. So, lets discuss my latest grilled pork marinade. Olive oil, sesame oil, rice wine vinegar, rye whiskey, cracked black pepper, minced onion and garlic, jew salt or sea salt, celery powder, drop of liquid smoke and worchestershire, and heavy beer. Soak that shit for 2 days then apply dry rub, grill and its awesome.
I really think that a lot of you have never seen how bad these paces are and have no concept of the scope or danger that exists from these islamists and similar groups. It really feels like you just can't grasp that people are like that.
Don't tell me they, like, behead people and stuff.
But you'll protect us all, right?
Admittedly my solution is slow but far more effective than the jack shit and denial we're using now
The problem is not religion. The problem is mostly economic and political. It's also party cultural and societal, but if you fix the economic and political problems at where Islam is most present, the cultural and societal issues with begin to resolve, followed by relligious issues.
You can't even begin fix religious issues without touching the others first. It just doesn't work.
Funny when you correct for literacy the numbers of people that believe that horrible shit goes up
A lot of the people that recruit these bombers are doctors and engineers
Is this a serious post? Seriously man, even for you, this is low brow. Isn't one of the side benefits of you free-market capitalists is that free-market capitalism brings an improving economy, which brings improved peace? As many problems a sudden change from one economic system to another economy system brings, there is absolutely very little doubt that an improving economy makes a region better.
Look at China. Look at Southeast Asia. Look at South Korea. Look at Brazil. Heck, look at parts of Eastern AND Western Europe. You can't tell me China and Asian countries are less socially and culturally restrictive (at least in the beginning) than Middle Eastern cultures. But the openness of an improving economy in all those places HAVE made them more peaceful.
Look at the Middle East and the Africa. The most DANGEROUS places there are also the poorest and the least educated people, while the states with the richest and most educated people are often the safer states.
Seriously, just because one or two educated persons become terrorists, it's like saying most educated terrorists. If this was true, Western Europe and North America would have have ton of terrorists.
For example, Ghana and Liberia is only one SMALL nation (which is smaller than most states in the USA) between each other; Ghana has a booming economy, while Liberia is a mess. Yet you tell me the terrorists probably come from Ghana and not Liberia. I mean, come on. You can't expect anyone to believe that.
Saudi Arabia is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with free college education and healthcare and yet they churn out radical Jihadists like Bin Laden- who was a member of one of the wealthiest families in the Middle East -and 15 out of 19 of the 911 hijackers.
We're dealing with intractable ideological differences stemming from radically different value systems. Not everything is about poverty.
The problem is not religion. The problem is mostly economic and political. It's also party cultural and societal, but if you fix the economic and political problems at where Islam is most present, the cultural and societal issues with begin to resolve, followed by relligious issues.
You can't even begin fix religious issues without touching the others first. It just doesn't work.
Funny when you correct for literacy the numbers of people that believe that horrible shit goes up
A lot of the people that recruit these bombers are doctors and engineers
Is this a serious post? Seriously man, even for you, this is low brow. Isn't one of the side benefits of you free-market capitalists is that free-market capitalism brings an improving economy, which brings improved peace? As many problems a sudden change from one economic system to another economy system brings, there is absolutely very little doubt that an improving economy makes a region better.
Look at China. Look at Southeast Asia. Look at South Korea. Look at Brazil. Heck, look at parts of Eastern AND Western Europe. You can't tell me China and Asian countries are less socially and culturally restrictive (at least in the beginning) than Middle Eastern cultures. But the openness of an improving economy in all those places HAVE made them more peaceful.
Look at the Middle East and the Africa. The most DANGEROUS places there are also the poorest and the least educated people, while the states with the richest and most educated people are often the safer states.
Seriously, just because one or two educated persons become terrorists, it's like saying most educated terrorists. If this was true, Western Europe and North America would have have ton of terrorists.
For example, Ghana and Liberia is only one SMALL nation (which is smaller than most states in the USA) between each other; Ghana has a booming economy, while Liberia is a mess. Yet you tell me the terrorists probably come from Ghana and not Liberia. I mean, come on. You can't expect anyone to believe that.
Saudi Arabia is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with free college education and healthcare and yet they churn out radical Jihadists like Bin Laden- who was a member of one of the wealthiest families in the Middle East -and 15 out of 19 of the 911 hijackers.
We're dealing with intractable ideological differences stemming from radically different value systems. Not everything is about poverty.
You do know I mean that in general terms and not for specific countries, right? You can find any specific example to try to disprove anything general, but there are always outliers. However, I would say the problem is more cultural and political (like I said before). Saudi Arabia is hardly a budding example of democracy, and their culture is hardly moving forward. However, moving a little north to Turkey, and they ARE a democracy. And they fairly wealthy nations themselves. The real issue with Saudi Arabia is they haven't had their own political and cultural reformation like any nation in the Europe had. If you look at their political system, it's been the system they been using for couple of hundreds of years. How many European nations still have the core of their old system?
Moreover, the wealth of the nation is not the only that's important, but also the wealth gap between the nation and its citizens, the wealth of its citizens, the wealth gap between its citizens and other citizens. I suspect some of those numbers don't look good. (No, this isn't an issue with capitalism. This has been happening long before it, and it's been happening since the Roman Empire.)
Yes, economics is not the end all be all - but it is the primary reason for a lot of the the Middle East troubles. The second would be a lot of political troubles, followed by cultural issues.
The problem is not religion. The problem is mostly economic and political. It's also party cultural and societal, but if you fix the economic and political problems at where Islam is most present, the cultural and societal issues with begin to resolve, followed by relligious issues.
You can't even begin fix religious issues without touching the others first. It just doesn't work.
Funny when you correct for literacy the numbers of people that believe that horrible shit goes up
A lot of the people that recruit these bombers are doctors and engineers
Is this a serious post? Seriously man, even for you, this is low brow. Isn't one of the side benefits of you free-market capitalists is that free-market capitalism brings an improving economy, which brings improved peace? As many problems a sudden change from one economic system to another economy system brings, there is absolutely very little doubt that an improving economy makes a region better.
Look at China. Look at Southeast Asia. Look at South Korea. Look at Brazil. Heck, look at parts of Eastern AND Western Europe. You can't tell me China and Asian countries are less socially and culturally restrictive (at least in the beginning) than Middle Eastern cultures. But the openness of an improving economy in all those places HAVE made them more peaceful.
Look at the Middle East and the Africa. The most DANGEROUS places there are also the poorest and the least educated people, while the states with the richest and most educated people are often the safer states.
Seriously, just because one or two educated persons become terrorists, it's like saying most educated terrorists. If this was true, Western Europe and North America would have have ton of terrorists.
For example, Ghana and Liberia is only one SMALL nation (which is smaller than most states in the USA) between each other; Ghana has a booming economy, while Liberia is a mess. Yet you tell me the terrorists probably come from Ghana and not Liberia. I mean, come on. You can't expect anyone to believe that.
Saudi Arabia is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with free college education and healthcare and yet they churn out radical Jihadists like Bin Laden- who was a member of one of the wealthiest families in the Middle East -and 15 out of 19 of the 911 hijackers.
We're dealing with intractable ideological differences stemming from radically different value systems. Not everything is about poverty.
You do know I mean that in general terms and not for specific countries, right? You can find any specific example to try to disprove anything general, but there are always outliers. However, I would say the problem is more cultural and political (like I said before). Saudi Arabia is hardly a budding example of democracy, and their culture is hardly moving forward. However, moving a little north to Turkey, and they ARE a democracy. And they fairly wealthy nations themselves. The real issue with Saudi Arabia is they haven't had their own political and cultural reformation like any nation in the Europe had. If you look at their political system, it's been the system they been using for couple of hundreds of years. How many European nations still have the core of their old system?
Moreover, the wealth of the nation is not the only that's important, but also the wealth gap between the nation and its citizens, the wealth of its citizens, the wealth gap between its citizens and other citizens. I suspect some of those numbers don't look good. (No, this isn't an issue with capitalism. This has been happening long before it, and it's been happening since the Roman Empire.)
Yes, economics is not the end all be all - but it is the primary reason for a lot of the the Middle East troubles. The second would be a lot of political troubles, followed by cultural issues.
It's a little arrogant to assume everyone in the world wants the same things, i.e. for the sake of this discussion, democracy, material wealth, Western social values, and if only everyone had these things there would be peace. In the Middle East there are ethnic/religious differences that have embroiled Arab nations in civil war since time immemorial. Artificial borders created by Western powers have only exacerbated these systemic conflicts. There is also a larger, mostly unrecognized, war between the value systems of the Judeo/Christian West and the Islamic East, both of which are rooted in religious/cultural ideology. Trying to impose one over the other creates war, not "progress."
The problem is not religion. The problem is mostly economic and political. It's also party cultural and societal, but if you fix the economic and political problems at where Islam is most present, the cultural and societal issues with begin to resolve, followed by relligious issues.
You can't even begin fix religious issues without touching the others first. It just doesn't work.
Funny when you correct for literacy the numbers of people that believe that horrible shit goes up
A lot of the people that recruit these bombers are doctors and engineers
Is this a serious post? Seriously man, even for you, this is low brow. Isn't one of the side benefits of you free-market capitalists is that free-market capitalism brings an improving economy, which brings improved peace? As many problems a sudden change from one economic system to another economy system brings, there is absolutely very little doubt that an improving economy makes a region better.
Look at China. Look at Southeast Asia. Look at South Korea. Look at Brazil. Heck, look at parts of Eastern AND Western Europe. You can't tell me China and Asian countries are less socially and culturally restrictive (at least in the beginning) than Middle Eastern cultures. But the openness of an improving economy in all those places HAVE made them more peaceful.
Look at the Middle East and the Africa. The most DANGEROUS places there are also the poorest and the least educated people, while the states with the richest and most educated people are often the safer states.
Seriously, just because one or two educated persons become terrorists, it's like saying most educated terrorists. If this was true, Western Europe and North America would have have ton of terrorists.
For example, Ghana and Liberia is only one SMALL nation (which is smaller than most states in the USA) between each other; Ghana has a booming economy, while Liberia is a mess. Yet you tell me the terrorists probably come from Ghana and not Liberia. I mean, come on. You can't expect anyone to believe that.
Saudi Arabia is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with free college education and healthcare and yet they churn out radical Jihadists like Bin Laden- who was a member of one of the wealthiest families in the Middle East -and 15 out of 19 of the 911 hijackers.
We're dealing with intractable ideological differences stemming from radically different value systems. Not everything is about poverty.
You do know I mean that in general terms and not for specific countries, right? You can find any specific example to try to disprove anything general, but there are always outliers. However, I would say the problem is more cultural and political (like I said before). Saudi Arabia is hardly a budding example of democracy, and their culture is hardly moving forward. However, moving a little north to Turkey, and they ARE a democracy. And they fairly wealthy nations themselves. The real issue with Saudi Arabia is they haven't had their own political and cultural reformation like any nation in the Europe had. If you look at their political system, it's been the system they been using for couple of hundreds of years. How many European nations still have the core of their old system?
Moreover, the wealth of the nation is not the only that's important, but also the wealth gap between the nation and its citizens, the wealth of its citizens, the wealth gap between its citizens and other citizens. I suspect some of those numbers don't look good. (No, this isn't an issue with capitalism. This has been happening long before it, and it's been happening since the Roman Empire.)
Yes, economics is not the end all be all - but it is the primary reason for a lot of the the Middle East troubles. The second would be a lot of political troubles, followed by cultural issues.
It's a little arrogant to assume everyone in the world wants the same things, i.e. for the sake of this discussion, democracy, material wealth, Western social values, and if only everyone had these things there would be peace. In the Middle East there are ethnic/religious differences that have embroiled the continent in civil war since time immemorial. Artificial borders created by Western powers have only exacerbated these inherent conflicts. There is also a larger, mostly unrecognized, war between the value systems of the Judeo/Christian West and the Islamic East, both of which are rooted in religious/cultural ideology. Trying to impose one over the other creates war, not "progress."
I never assumed they wanted the same things. I would never assume that.
But as for the rest, I think the "religious" aspect has been rooted more in ancient cultural issues even before the time of dominant monotheistic religions, but ancient bullshit. It's really more of Western/Eastern ancient world divide if you look at it, which is sad, because the divide is in the some of the areas of the Western side Roman Empire (Britain, Spain, Italy, France) and the some areas of Eastern side of Roman Empire (Turkey, Syria, parts of Eyypt and North of Africa).
It feels like ancient bullshit that's even older than the monotheistic religions.
Tallica, Dawkins has an interesting perspective rooted in material realism but you should open your mind to other possibilities that don't necessarily involve militant atheism or the dogma of organized religion. Discoveries in particle physics call into question our notions of physical reality and the concept of our separateness from the material world.
A couple of books you might find interesting:
The Self-Aware Universe by Amit Goswami
Quantum Enigma: Physics Encounters Consciousness by Bruce Rosenblum
Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design by Stephen Meyer
The Holographic Universe: The Revolutionary Theory of Reality by Michael Talbot
All of the above books point toward an unseen transcendent aspect of physical existence.
sounds great.(but i would omit the liquid smoke, im scared of it)
does the vinegar and beer soaking for 2 days cause the meat to break down too much?
Couple hours is good too, not as heavy. You can leave out the smoke and wrchestershire and just as good. Play with ingredients, that the fun of cooking