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Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, & Daniel Dennett
Topic Started: Oct 16 2014, 08:01 PM (1,282 Views)
Tallica
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I've recently found myself fascinated with watching all of these men address the topic of religion and god. From the sounds of things, there are others here familiar with their work/debates/books. I'll just randomly post some of their videos and thoughts here for discussion or just for others to possibly enjoy.

Once able to watch them uninterrupted by Ben Aflec, I think it's much easier to get a better understanding of their views, and in my case, find them completely refreshing and very enlightening. I encourage people to give them a real listen, particularly the religious.
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Tallica
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Hitchens kills it in this one
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Tallica
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Tallica
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Cbear
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Gitche Manitou will eat these pale face sinners hearts and scatter their ashes to the 4 winds.
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19nate79

douchebage reza aslan vs sam harris
any point you think reza has is excoriated in his blog

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19nate79

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Wahoo08
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Tallica, you should also check out their books as well.

The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins is one of my all time favorite books (along with another of his books, The Selfish Gene).

God is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens and The End of Faith by Sam Harris are also pretty popular, although I'm honestly not a very big fan of either of them and wasn't overly impressed with their books. I've seen a few of Dennett's lectures and he got some decent stuff.

You might also want to check out some of Lawrence Krauss's videos. He's very much on Dawkin's level in terms of having an impressive scientific background.

For those that are into cosomology, Krauss's book A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather Than Nothing is an outstanding book. Krauss basically lays the groundwork for the argument that just because there is "something" (i.e. stars, people, planters, atoms, etc.) doesn't mean there has to be a creator. It's almost entirely theoretical, but he believes that matter can be a completely natural consequence of the laws of physics. He's an ardent and outspoken atheist, but I can't remember him mentioning religion in this book, so it's a safe read, even if you don't feel like going down that road.
Edited by Wahoo08, Oct 16 2014, 10:09 PM.
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Wahoo08
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Cbear
Oct 16 2014, 08:38 PM
Gitche Manitou will eat these pale face sinners hearts and scatter their ashes to the 4 winds.
You might actually like some of these guys, Cbear. Harris is one of most anti-Islam guys you'll ever come across. Dawkins' basically states that he sees the big three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) as more or less the same and leaves it at that. Harris however, is pretty explicit in his belief that Islam is far worse than Christianity. I'm not much of a fan of his, but I'm willing to meet you in the middle :wink:

Hitchens is another guy that came across as a goddam lilberal, but was one of the most outspoken neo-cons and supporters of the Iraqi War 10 years ago. In fact, he died after having alienated many of his followers because of this.
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Wahoo08
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One more for Cbear. Here's Lawrence Krauss debating a Muslim. I believe this is the debate where he causes a minor uproar when he threatened to pull out last minute after he found out the audience was going to be segregated by gender. See, Cbear, it's not just Christianity that the atheist attack....

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19nate79

Wahoo08
Oct 16 2014, 10:02 PM
Cbear
Oct 16 2014, 08:38 PM
Gitche Manitou will eat these pale face sinners hearts and scatter their ashes to the 4 winds.
You might actually like some of these guys, Cbear. Harris is one of most anti-Islam guys you'll ever come across. Dawkins' basically states that he sees the big three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) as more or less the same and leaves it at that. Harris however, is pretty explicit in his belief that Islam is far worse than Christianity. I'm not much of a fan of his, but I'm willing to meet you in the middle :wink:

Hitchens is another guy that came across as a goddam lilberal, but was one of the most outspoken neo-cons and supporters of the Iraqi War 10 years ago. In fact, he died after having alienated many of his followers because of this.
Not true

He says the old testament is worse than the Koran, but that nobody takes it very seriously any more in any significant percentage. Islam, however does have a significant minority that does.
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Wahoo08
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19nate79
Oct 16 2014, 10:54 PM
Wahoo08
Oct 16 2014, 10:02 PM
Cbear
Oct 16 2014, 08:38 PM
Gitche Manitou will eat these pale face sinners hearts and scatter their ashes to the 4 winds.
You might actually like some of these guys, Cbear. Harris is one of most anti-Islam guys you'll ever come across. Dawkins' basically states that he sees the big three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) as more or less the same and leaves it at that. Harris however, is pretty explicit in his belief that Islam is far worse than Christianity. I'm not much of a fan of his, but I'm willing to meet you in the middle :wink:

Hitchens is another guy that came across as a goddam lilberal, but was one of the most outspoken neo-cons and supporters of the Iraqi War 10 years ago. In fact, he died after having alienated many of his followers because of this.
Not true

He says the old testament is worse than the Koran, but that nobody takes it very seriously any more in any significant percentage. Islam, however does have a significant minority that does.
Harris references the terrible things that are written about in the Old Testament, but also points out that the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus act as a counterweight to the Old Testament and softens the message of the Bible. He also argues, that there is no such counterweight in the Koran.

Personally, I don't agree with him. I think man shapes religion more than religion shapes man. If you were to take religion out of the Middle East, you'd still have strongmen fighting over control of oil, you'd still have a largely barren desert that stunted economic growth, you'd still have the repercussions of Sykes-Picot that drew arbitrary lines though ethnic groups, etc. Religion just acts as a steroid that radicalizes political differences to an extreme.

Regardless of my thoughts though, Harris is pretty clear that he doesn't view Islam and Christianity as equal.
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Cbear
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Wahoo08
Oct 16 2014, 11:41 PM
19nate79
Oct 16 2014, 10:54 PM
Wahoo08
Oct 16 2014, 10:02 PM
Cbear
Oct 16 2014, 08:38 PM
Gitche Manitou will eat these pale face sinners hearts and scatter their ashes to the 4 winds.
You might actually like some of these guys, Cbear. Harris is one of most anti-Islam guys you'll ever come across. Dawkins' basically states that he sees the big three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) as more or less the same and leaves it at that. Harris however, is pretty explicit in his belief that Islam is far worse than Christianity. I'm not much of a fan of his, but I'm willing to meet you in the middle :wink:

Hitchens is another guy that came across as a goddam lilberal, but was one of the most outspoken neo-cons and supporters of the Iraqi War 10 years ago. In fact, he died after having alienated many of his followers because of this.
Not true

He says the old testament is worse than the Koran, but that nobody takes it very seriously any more in any significant percentage. Islam, however does have a significant minority that does.
Harris references the terrible things that are written about in the Old Testament, but also points out that the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus act as a counterweight to the Old Testament and softens the message of the Bible. He also argues, that there is no such counterweight in the Koran.

Personally, I don't agree with him. I think man shapes religion more than religion shapes man. If you were to take religion out of the Middle East, you'd still have strongmen fighting over control of oil, you'd still have a largely barren desert that stunted economic growth, you'd still have the repercussions of Sykes-Picot that drew arbitrary lines though ethnic groups, etc. Religion just acts as a steroid that radicalizes political differences to an extreme.

Regardless of my thoughts though, Harris is pretty clear that he doesn't view Islam and Christianity as equal.
Muslims don't just hate infidels but apparently each other with the rate the tribes butcher each other. You don't see Jehovah Witnesses killing 7th Day Adventists.
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Tallica
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Wahoo08
Oct 16 2014, 11:41 PM
19nate79
Oct 16 2014, 10:54 PM
Wahoo08
Oct 16 2014, 10:02 PM
Cbear
Oct 16 2014, 08:38 PM
Gitche Manitou will eat these pale face sinners hearts and scatter their ashes to the 4 winds.
You might actually like some of these guys, Cbear. Harris is one of most anti-Islam guys you'll ever come across. Dawkins' basically states that he sees the big three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) as more or less the same and leaves it at that. Harris however, is pretty explicit in his belief that Islam is far worse than Christianity. I'm not much of a fan of his, but I'm willing to meet you in the middle :wink:

Hitchens is another guy that came across as a goddam lilberal, but was one of the most outspoken neo-cons and supporters of the Iraqi War 10 years ago. In fact, he died after having alienated many of his followers because of this.
Not true

He says the old testament is worse than the Koran, but that nobody takes it very seriously any more in any significant percentage. Islam, however does have a significant minority that does.

Regardless of my thoughts though, Harris is pretty clear that he doesn't view Islam and Christianity as equal.


Do you? He's clear that if this was the 1400's he would have the same opinion of Christianity. He doesn't attack Islam more because he has more objection to it's dogma or holy texts, but because it is clearly a more dangerous threat to civilization than Christianity. He's not showing any bias, but rather just being honest about the reality of things.
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Wahoo08
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Tallica
Oct 16 2014, 11:56 PM
Wahoo08
Oct 16 2014, 11:41 PM
19nate79
Oct 16 2014, 10:54 PM
Wahoo08
Oct 16 2014, 10:02 PM
Cbear
Oct 16 2014, 08:38 PM
Gitche Manitou will eat these pale face sinners hearts and scatter their ashes to the 4 winds.
You might actually like some of these guys, Cbear. Harris is one of most anti-Islam guys you'll ever come across. Dawkins' basically states that he sees the big three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) as more or less the same and leaves it at that. Harris however, is pretty explicit in his belief that Islam is far worse than Christianity. I'm not much of a fan of his, but I'm willing to meet you in the middle :wink:

Hitchens is another guy that came across as a goddam lilberal, but was one of the most outspoken neo-cons and supporters of the Iraqi War 10 years ago. In fact, he died after having alienated many of his followers because of this.
Not true

He says the old testament is worse than the Koran, but that nobody takes it very seriously any more in any significant percentage. Islam, however does have a significant minority that does.

Regardless of my thoughts though, Harris is pretty clear that he doesn't view Islam and Christianity as equal.


Do you? He's clear that if this was the 1400's he would have the same opinion of Christianity. He doesn't attack Islam more because he has more objection to it's dogma or holy texts, but because it is clearly a more dangerous threat to civilization than Christianity. He's not showing any bias, but rather just being honest about the reality of things.
I'm literally sitting here with Harris' book, just to give you an idea of his writings. From page 109-110:

Quote:
 
We are at war with Islam. It may not serve our immediate foreign policy objectives for our political leaders to openly acknowledge this fact, but it is unambiguously so. It is not merely that we are at war with an otherwise peaceful religion that has been "hijacked" by extremists. We are at war with precisely the vision of life that is prescribed to all Muslims in the Koran, and further elaborated in the literature of the hadith, which recounts the sayings and actions of the Prophet.

He goes on to say that if Muslims and the West are to coexist, then Muslims will have to ignore much of what is said in the Koran. He points out the Christians have already learned to do this with the Bible, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, he basically says that parts of the New Testament gives Christians the ability to chose a softer message than the Old Testament presents. He's fairly pessimistic that the Koran gives Muslims this same option.

I don't have any of his passages memorized or booked marked. I just flipped open to chapter 4, entitled "The Problem with Islam" (he has no similarly titled chapters about Judaism or Christianity) to give you a taste of his beliefs. I don't even agree with Harris, but he absolutely, unequivocally, singles out Islam.
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