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Ben Aflac is a moron
Topic Started: Oct 6 2014, 07:04 PM (2,449 Views)
19nate79

I'll go point by point later

Have you read the pew polls? Profiling is understandable. Do you want us to profile the kkk or black panthers? Are they all violent? Of course not. Do a staggering % of them condone violence even in Europe? Yes. My god you'd never accept those kind of numbers from any other group. Don't believe me? Fine. I'll call your bluff. Draw a picture of Mohammed and walk into your local mosque trying to sell it or if that's too on the nose just catch them in public or have yourself a stand selling them for 10 bucks apiece right next to their display at some event they're at, like the Xmas display where the atheists put up their piece (right next to other religions).

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19nate79

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

now that is some stats for that ass^^^^

tell me again how this isn't a problem
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19nate79

going to attack zachypoo this way with his own words

Places such as Indonesia and India have hundreds of millions of Muslims who don’t fit these caricatures. That’s why Maher and Harris are guilty of gross generalizations. But let’s be honest. Islam has a problem today. The places that have trouble accommodating themselves to the modern world are disproportionately Muslim.

self explained and proves maher's point, all in one paragraph. need i expand on that? following paragraphs repeat that point over and over.

hundreds of millions that don't act the same way? let's say 500,000,000 of the 1,600,000,000,000 don't want sharia and the like, that still means MOST do. let's say it only 500,000,000 that want to kill you for leaving the faith. that's a fucking lot. way way way way way too many. jesus christ you guys attack christians for thinking gay people shouldn't be married. these people want to kill them for being gay. where the fuck is your head at?

then he talks about the peace in islamd 100 years ago.
even if i accept that, and i don't because it's bullshit which you can find out yourself in 10 seconds of effort (i'm not going to waste my time with it even, do it yourself), we live now. yes if i was around in the dark ages i'd worry about the plague, but i'm not. moot point

they brought up numbnuts' moderate friend in the debate. who was fucking killed by fucking extremists in his fucking country. get your head out of your ass.

if i go strictly by the numbers, it looks like the only way to fix these people is to make them the extreme minority in their own countries. when they run the country the place sucks. apparently they work like voltron. get too many together and they form a huge pain in the ass. so when harris says they're the mother lode of bad ideas TODAY, if you look at the polling data where's your argument? what were those percentages in the BEST countries favoring sharia law, punishing homos, etc...? is the number a tad too high for you to accept if they ran your government starting tomorrow? thought so
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split decision
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^^^ You're the picture of civil debate.

Good grief.
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19nate79

Can't be civil with bullshit. It's bullshit and he knows it
Contracted himself thought that entire quoting
Also that would be out of character for me on here

The numbers are there and the argument isn't all muslims are bad, just a lot more than any other group right now that are. Argue with the data
Edited by 19nate79, Oct 10 2014, 11:52 PM.
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19nate79

split decision
Oct 10 2014, 01:57 PM
I encourage you to read the full article.

What sometimes happens, as in the case of Sam Harris, is he makes a statement that not all Muslims are bad but then he contradicts himself by saying Islam is "the mother lode of bad ideas." It's pretty hard to take that out of context.

By the way, here's another line from Harris:

"We should profile Muslims, or anyone who looks like he or she could conceivably be Muslim, and we should be honest about it."

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/in-defense-of-profiling


Maher -- who I usually like but I think he's got it wrong on Muslims in some respects -- isn't much different. Consider these statements:

Quote:
 
Funny man Bill Maher, on his show Real Time with Bill Maher, said he's scared of a hot new trend in Britain: naming babies Mohammed. That's the most popular name for a baby boy there now, and Maher is "alarmed."

"Am I a racist to feel alarmed by that?" Maher asks his guests. "Because I am. And it's not because of the race, it's because of the religion. I don't have to apologize, do I, for not wanting the Western world to be taken over by Islam in 300 years?"


http://gawker.com/5677293/bill-maher-is-totally-spooked-by-babies-named-mohammed


From an interview with Charlie Rose:

ROSE: Would you come to the table and debate this with a moderate Muslim?

MAHER: Find one, yes. Find one.


What's the implication there? That moderate Muslims are few and far between, right?


Maher has also condemned Islam for female genital mutilation. That's not a Muslim thing, that is something endorsed by ISIS and a practice of some African nations where Muslim it practised.

Maher has been critical of Islam for not allowing women to drive. There is one Muslim nation that doesn't allow women to drive -- Saudi Arabia. That's it. It's not a Muslim thing.

He sometimes makes generalizations that mislead to strengthen his case.


Yes, we all know about the crazy shit that happens in the name of Islam. But many of those heinous acts are carried out by groups like the Islamic State that represent only a tiny fraction of Muslims and they are not representative of the religion as a whole.

For the larger number of Muslims (still not all, but there are many) who believe in Sharia law and the stoning of women, I welcome a clash of values. That sort of behavior should not be condoned.

As for my neighbors, I can't tell you the dinner conversation that takes place at the Muslim residence next door. But I can tell you that the wife and mother outwardly has a firm grip on that household. She can be heard yelling at her husband and teenaged sons at various times throughout the day. I've never seen her bearing any scars or bruises for having the audacity to assert herself (I actually wish she'd take a chill pill sometimes).

I know several others. I fear none of them. I used to work with a woman, originally from Germany, who converted to Islam when she married a man from Pakistan. They were both respected members of the business community.

I believe Dwarf of Doom here on this forum has mentioned before that he's Muslim. I've never found him repugnant. Have any of you? Yet there are some others here who may be Christian, may be agnostic or atheist who espouse very narrow-minded views.

As we re-engage this debate, I'll again make it clear that I'm not an adherent of any faith. I think the world would generally be just as well off without any religion. But if people want to practice some form of it, I respect that. Just don't do harm to others.

And I acknowledge that many religious folks do good deeds (that's great, just drop the "in the name of God part").

Before I wind up this post, let me say that I expect at least one TL;DR response. But I don't care. If you want to treat this stuff lightly and continue to make sweeping generalizations, then do so.
This entire post is an anecdote
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split decision
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19nate79
Oct 10 2014, 11:54 PM
split decision
Oct 10 2014, 01:57 PM
I encourage you to read the full article.

What sometimes happens, as in the case of Sam Harris, is he makes a statement that not all Muslims are bad but then he contradicts himself by saying Islam is "the mother lode of bad ideas." It's pretty hard to take that out of context.

By the way, here's another line from Harris:

"We should profile Muslims, or anyone who looks like he or she could conceivably be Muslim, and we should be honest about it."

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/in-defense-of-profiling


Maher -- who I usually like but I think he's got it wrong on Muslims in some respects -- isn't much different. Consider these statements:

Quote:
 
Funny man Bill Maher, on his show Real Time with Bill Maher, said he's scared of a hot new trend in Britain: naming babies Mohammed. That's the most popular name for a baby boy there now, and Maher is "alarmed."

"Am I a racist to feel alarmed by that?" Maher asks his guests. "Because I am. And it's not because of the race, it's because of the religion. I don't have to apologize, do I, for not wanting the Western world to be taken over by Islam in 300 years?"


http://gawker.com/5677293/bill-maher-is-totally-spooked-by-babies-named-mohammed


From an interview with Charlie Rose:

ROSE: Would you come to the table and debate this with a moderate Muslim?

MAHER: Find one, yes. Find one.


What's the implication there? That moderate Muslims are few and far between, right?


Maher has also condemned Islam for female genital mutilation. That's not a Muslim thing, that is something endorsed by ISIS and a practice of some African nations where Muslim it practised.

Maher has been critical of Islam for not allowing women to drive. There is one Muslim nation that doesn't allow women to drive -- Saudi Arabia. That's it. It's not a Muslim thing.

He sometimes makes generalizations that mislead to strengthen his case.


Yes, we all know about the crazy shit that happens in the name of Islam. But many of those heinous acts are carried out by groups like the Islamic State that represent only a tiny fraction of Muslims and they are not representative of the religion as a whole.

For the larger number of Muslims (still not all, but there are many) who believe in Sharia law and the stoning of women, I welcome a clash of values. That sort of behavior should not be condoned.

As for my neighbors, I can't tell you the dinner conversation that takes place at the Muslim residence next door. But I can tell you that the wife and mother outwardly has a firm grip on that household. She can be heard yelling at her husband and teenaged sons at various times throughout the day. I've never seen her bearing any scars or bruises for having the audacity to assert herself (I actually wish she'd take a chill pill sometimes).

I know several others. I fear none of them. I used to work with a woman, originally from Germany, who converted to Islam when she married a man from Pakistan. They were both respected members of the business community.

I believe Dwarf of Doom here on this forum has mentioned before that he's Muslim. I've never found him repugnant. Have any of you? Yet there are some others here who may be Christian, may be agnostic or atheist who espouse very narrow-minded views.

As we re-engage this debate, I'll again make it clear that I'm not an adherent of any faith. I think the world would generally be just as well off without any religion. But if people want to practice some form of it, I respect that. Just don't do harm to others.

And I acknowledge that many religious folks do good deeds (that's great, just drop the "in the name of God part").

Before I wind up this post, let me say that I expect at least one TL;DR response. But I don't care. If you want to treat this stuff lightly and continue to make sweeping generalizations, then do so.
This entire post is an anecdote
And you are a poopyhead!


That's closer to your level.

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19nate79

split decision
Oct 11 2014, 12:04 AM
19nate79
Oct 10 2014, 11:54 PM
split decision
Oct 10 2014, 01:57 PM
I encourage you to read the full article.

What sometimes happens, as in the case of Sam Harris, is he makes a statement that not all Muslims are bad but then he contradicts himself by saying Islam is "the mother lode of bad ideas." It's pretty hard to take that out of context.

By the way, here's another line from Harris:

"We should profile Muslims, or anyone who looks like he or she could conceivably be Muslim, and we should be honest about it."

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/in-defense-of-profiling


Maher -- who I usually like but I think he's got it wrong on Muslims in some respects -- isn't much different. Consider these statements:

Quote:
 
Funny man Bill Maher, on his show Real Time with Bill Maher, said he's scared of a hot new trend in Britain: naming babies Mohammed. That's the most popular name for a baby boy there now, and Maher is "alarmed."

"Am I a racist to feel alarmed by that?" Maher asks his guests. "Because I am. And it's not because of the race, it's because of the religion. I don't have to apologize, do I, for not wanting the Western world to be taken over by Islam in 300 years?"


http://gawker.com/5677293/bill-maher-is-totally-spooked-by-babies-named-mohammed


From an interview with Charlie Rose:

ROSE: Would you come to the table and debate this with a moderate Muslim?

MAHER: Find one, yes. Find one.


What's the implication there? That moderate Muslims are few and far between, right?


Maher has also condemned Islam for female genital mutilation. That's not a Muslim thing, that is something endorsed by ISIS and a practice of some African nations where Muslim it practised.

Maher has been critical of Islam for not allowing women to drive. There is one Muslim nation that doesn't allow women to drive -- Saudi Arabia. That's it. It's not a Muslim thing.

He sometimes makes generalizations that mislead to strengthen his case.


Yes, we all know about the crazy shit that happens in the name of Islam. But many of those heinous acts are carried out by groups like the Islamic State that represent only a tiny fraction of Muslims and they are not representative of the religion as a whole.

For the larger number of Muslims (still not all, but there are many) who believe in Sharia law and the stoning of women, I welcome a clash of values. That sort of behavior should not be condoned.

As for my neighbors, I can't tell you the dinner conversation that takes place at the Muslim residence next door. But I can tell you that the wife and mother outwardly has a firm grip on that household. She can be heard yelling at her husband and teenaged sons at various times throughout the day. I've never seen her bearing any scars or bruises for having the audacity to assert herself (I actually wish she'd take a chill pill sometimes).

I know several others. I fear none of them. I used to work with a woman, originally from Germany, who converted to Islam when she married a man from Pakistan. They were both respected members of the business community.

I believe Dwarf of Doom here on this forum has mentioned before that he's Muslim. I've never found him repugnant. Have any of you? Yet there are some others here who may be Christian, may be agnostic or atheist who espouse very narrow-minded views.

As we re-engage this debate, I'll again make it clear that I'm not an adherent of any faith. I think the world would generally be just as well off without any religion. But if people want to practice some form of it, I respect that. Just don't do harm to others.

And I acknowledge that many religious folks do good deeds (that's great, just drop the "in the name of God part").

Before I wind up this post, let me say that I expect at least one TL;DR response. But I don't care. If you want to treat this stuff lightly and continue to make sweeping generalizations, then do so.
This entire post is an anecdote
And you are a poopyhead!


That's closer to your level.

Well I'll counter your example with

A knew an iranian guy that I met in japan that thought that 9/11 was good because america would learn what they had experienced under sadaam.

That isn't a debate

i posted the data. refute it or reconcile it.
Edited by 19nate79, Oct 11 2014, 12:31 AM.
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19nate79

how about the ones in merica?
"Few U.S. Muslims voice support for suicide bombing or other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam; 81% say such acts are never justified"

100-81=19
19% think it's ok at least sometimes to suicide bomb in the name of islam
19!?!?!?!?!

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19nate79
Oct 11 2014, 12:11 AM
split decision
Oct 11 2014, 12:04 AM
19nate79
Oct 10 2014, 11:54 PM
split decision
Oct 10 2014, 01:57 PM
I encourage you to read the full article.

What sometimes happens, as in the case of Sam Harris, is he makes a statement that not all Muslims are bad but then he contradicts himself by saying Islam is "the mother lode of bad ideas." It's pretty hard to take that out of context.

By the way, here's another line from Harris:

"We should profile Muslims, or anyone who looks like he or she could conceivably be Muslim, and we should be honest about it."

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/in-defense-of-profiling


Maher -- who I usually like but I think he's got it wrong on Muslims in some respects -- isn't much different. Consider these statements:

Quote:
 
Funny man Bill Maher, on his show Real Time with Bill Maher, said he's scared of a hot new trend in Britain: naming babies Mohammed. That's the most popular name for a baby boy there now, and Maher is "alarmed."

"Am I a racist to feel alarmed by that?" Maher asks his guests. "Because I am. And it's not because of the race, it's because of the religion. I don't have to apologize, do I, for not wanting the Western world to be taken over by Islam in 300 years?"


http://gawker.com/5677293/bill-maher-is-totally-spooked-by-babies-named-mohammed


From an interview with Charlie Rose:

ROSE: Would you come to the table and debate this with a moderate Muslim?

MAHER: Find one, yes. Find one.


What's the implication there? That moderate Muslims are few and far between, right?


Maher has also condemned Islam for female genital mutilation. That's not a Muslim thing, that is something endorsed by ISIS and a practice of some African nations where Muslim it practised.

Maher has been critical of Islam for not allowing women to drive. There is one Muslim nation that doesn't allow women to drive -- Saudi Arabia. That's it. It's not a Muslim thing.

He sometimes makes generalizations that mislead to strengthen his case.


Yes, we all know about the crazy shit that happens in the name of Islam. But many of those heinous acts are carried out by groups like the Islamic State that represent only a tiny fraction of Muslims and they are not representative of the religion as a whole.

For the larger number of Muslims (still not all, but there are many) who believe in Sharia law and the stoning of women, I welcome a clash of values. That sort of behavior should not be condoned.

As for my neighbors, I can't tell you the dinner conversation that takes place at the Muslim residence next door. But I can tell you that the wife and mother outwardly has a firm grip on that household. She can be heard yelling at her husband and teenaged sons at various times throughout the day. I've never seen her bearing any scars or bruises for having the audacity to assert herself (I actually wish she'd take a chill pill sometimes).

I know several others. I fear none of them. I used to work with a woman, originally from Germany, who converted to Islam when she married a man from Pakistan. They were both respected members of the business community.

I believe Dwarf of Doom here on this forum has mentioned before that he's Muslim. I've never found him repugnant. Have any of you? Yet there are some others here who may be Christian, may be agnostic or atheist who espouse very narrow-minded views.

As we re-engage this debate, I'll again make it clear that I'm not an adherent of any faith. I think the world would generally be just as well off without any religion. But if people want to practice some form of it, I respect that. Just don't do harm to others.

And I acknowledge that many religious folks do good deeds (that's great, just drop the "in the name of God part").

Before I wind up this post, let me say that I expect at least one TL;DR response. But I don't care. If you want to treat this stuff lightly and continue to make sweeping generalizations, then do so.
This entire post is an anecdote
And you are a poopyhead!


That's closer to your level.

Well I'll counter your example with

A knew an iranian guy that I met in japan that thought that 9/11 was good because america would learn what they had experienced under sadaam.

That isn't a debate
No way! An Iranian guy who wishes ill will on America???

Next thing you'll be trying to make us believe there are also Iraqis that harbor resentment towards the U.S. too.

With the decades of fuckery that have taken place by the U.S. in relation to the governments in those countries (supporting one side and then the other), and then all the bombs dropped and innocent people killed in the name of "weapons of mass destruction", an Iranian or an Iraqi wouldn't even have to praise Allah to see the U.S. as evil.

Maybe Kuwaitis feel differently since they were liberated by American military might.


Anyway, as to one of your previous posts, I already stated this position:

For the larger number of Muslims (still not all, but there are many) who believe in Sharia law and the stoning of women, I welcome a clash of values. That sort of behavior should not be condoned.


At no point did I suggest we should turn a blind eye to anything of that nature. It is abhorrent and should be challenged.

This gentleman expresses eloquently the need for reform, and there are undoubtedly hundreds of millions of other Muslims who concur.


https://www.ted.com/talks/maajid_nawaz_a_global_culture_to_fight_extremism


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19nate79
Oct 11 2014, 12:38 AM
how about the ones in merica?
"Few U.S. Muslims voice support for suicide bombing or other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam; 81% say such acts are never justified"

100-81=19
19% think it's ok at least sometimes to suicide bomb in the name of islam
19!?!?!?!?!

There are an estimated 5 to 8 million Muslims living in your midst and have been for years.

Isn't it astounding that you and so many others have gone without being blown to smithereens all this time despite having 19% (by your calculation) of American Muslims who are perfectly comfortable with the idea of suicide bombs.

What incredible restraint they are showing. But it won't last. One of these days when you're at the squat rack and you least expect it...
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19nate79

That's just a silly way of looking at it
that means that 19% of the ones here think it would be ok to do it under the right circumstances.

that is not a small %
That is a recognizable problem, even the links you quote acknowledge that

If 1 in 5 people from and other group believed something that heinous you'd think there was a problem in that group.


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19nate79
Oct 11 2014, 01:20 AM
That's just a silly way of looking at it
that means that 19% of the ones here think it would be ok to do it under the right circumstances.

that is not a small %
That is a recognizable problem, even the links you quote acknowledge that

If 1 in 5 people from and other group believed something that heinous you'd think there was a problem in that group.


That's just an even sillier way of looking at it.

You want to interpret what 1 in 5 American Muslims is thinking, something that is speculative and can be projected but not proven.

I'm asking you for something tangible, the number of incidents where American Muslims have actually acted on such thoughts and blew shit up.

You've got the Tsarnaev brothers. I'm sure you can list a few more.

Then list all the Christians and atheists in America who have committed murders.

Of course that number would be higher due to a greater population, but I'll bet you it would be a disproportionately higher number.
Edited by split decision, Oct 11 2014, 01:38 AM.
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19nate79

That isn't a cogent point

I'll come at this again later from a pc
You're not arguing the same point
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19nate79

Youtube sam harris vs azlan in the meantime

Sorry aslan^^^
Edited by 19nate79, Oct 11 2014, 03:32 AM.
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