- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Extremists return to U.S./Canada. Now what? | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 18 2014, 02:43 AM (286 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Sep 18 2014, 01:12 PM Post #16 |
|
Deleted User
|
Also - I'm hoping that you're not serious when you say you'd let some dumb radical chase you out of your home. |
|
|
| split decision | Sep 18 2014, 01:16 PM Post #17 |
|
Porn savant
|
You'd be running from the terrorists! Terrorism wins! Fuck that. Blow up their house first (just be absolutely sure they are radicals first). Unlike Bulldog, I'd be uneasy knowing my neighbor was part of an extremist group. As I've mentioned before, there is a Muslim family living right next door to me. I don't worry about them in the slightest (and you might be surprised to know that the wife/mother does a LOT of screaming at her husband and teenaged kids so they apparently aren't adherents of Sharia law). But if I learned that they were once members of a faction that took up arms against the West, I would look at them differently and feel like monitoring their every move, just in case... |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Sep 18 2014, 01:24 PM Post #18 |
|
Deleted User
|
Ask yourself this - WTF would you be able to do? Call the cops every time they received a package? I mean - it's just ridiculous. A LOT of people don't like this country. I'm included in on that a lot of the time. Would I ever murder thousands of people because of it? Of course not (unless I got REALLY horny) and most of the people (including these "radicals") wouldn't do it either. Especially not some kid who went to the middle east, got a dose of reality, and came running home to mommy and daddy. I just think that the percentage of people that go to the ME to fight and come back (i.e. not fight) and still want to incur violent wrath onto America's citizens has to be pretty fucking low. Like...close to 0% low. If they wanted to get an operative in the US to do real harm - they wouldn't do it through someone like that. They'd do it through someone who is already here - and apparently all that communication is being monitored anyway (from rights we've already given up over this) so WTF does it matter? |
|
|
| Tallica | Sep 18 2014, 01:25 PM Post #19 |
![]()
|
HOLY SHIT are you ever downplaying what they are actually doing. This isn't a college kid who decided to try ecstasy and realized it was too intense and now I went him in an internment camp. Nor is this experimenting with your spirituality, maaaan. These aren't modern day hippies like Haight-Ashbury. These are people who developed a hatred for this country, were indoctrinated with hatred enough to travel to the most dangerous area on the planet in order to pursue a goal of ending life as we know it for western civilization. Now that's slightly hyperbolic, but it really is what the end game is for those people. Just because they get cold feet doesn't mean they should be ignored, nor should we assume that their intentions of harming US citizens has disappeared. Maybe they decided it'd be way easier to plant a bomb in a school in california instead of sweating their balls off in the desert forever. I'm not suggesting they lose the ability to work, have a family etc. I'm just saying you lose the right to have closed doors discussion under the freedoms of a country you wanted to fight against 15 minutes ago. |
![]() |
|
| Tallica | Sep 18 2014, 01:30 PM Post #20 |
![]()
|
If I had neighbors move next door that I knew had left the US to attempt to join ISIS, but came back to the states and moved next door to me, you're damned right I'd move. I wouldn't feel a bit ashamed about it either. |
![]() |
|
| Deleted User | Sep 18 2014, 02:12 PM Post #21 |
|
Deleted User
|
Again - I dont think that these guys are coming back with the intent of being sleeper cell agents. I don't think they should lose their rights as citizens because they entertained another way of thinking and decided against it. Whether they hate the country or not is irrelevant. Where would this preemptive way of thinking stop? Only with people coming back into the states after they tried to join ISIS? Or maybe we should just "be on the safe side" and include anyone who comes back from the ME? Or better yet - how about any other Muslim country? Oh shit -that's right, that means me coming back from the Philippines makes me a terrorist that should lose his rights as a citizen. I mean - you do get the gyst of what I'm saying, right? |
|
|
| Deleted User | Sep 18 2014, 02:13 PM Post #22 |
|
Deleted User
|
I just don't think that you can assume someone's intentions if they've done nothing wrong. It's a very, very dangerous game to play to give an entity like the government the ability to strip rights away from someone simply by assuming intent. |
|
|
| split decision | Sep 18 2014, 02:48 PM Post #23 |
|
Porn savant
|
I think you have identified the line when you say when they joined ISIS. Even if you're an impressionable, naive teenager who goes to Iraq or Syria to fight side by side with wackos -- who have vowed to kill people from the U.S. (and beheaded a couple of them just to prove it's not just lip service) -- and then you realize after weeks or months that this shit is too crazy, then you should be prepared to sacrifice a degree of rights and freedoms when you return to your adopted homeland. You should be subject to being monitored or profiled because you were in league with a sworn enemy. Penalizing anyone just because they travelled from the ME or because they are Muslim is unfair and unnecessary, IMO. You'd need proof that these individuals were plotting against the U.S., even temporarily. |
![]() |
|
| split decision | Oct 6 2014, 02:39 PM Post #24 |
|
Porn savant
|
And here's a case study, an educated (but not wise) woman too... How she went from a school teacher to an ISIS member The petite 25-year-old tentatively opens the door to the hotel room where we've agreed to meet. Her face is covered, but her body language betrays her anxiety. She slowly lifts her niqab, revealing her young, heart-shaped face. Her large brown eyes, filled with guilt and turmoil, are delicately made up under perfectly sculpted brows. She calls herself 'Khadija.' It's not her real name, because she's a marked woman. Once a member of a fearsome, female ISIS brigade, she's a recent defector, disillusioned by the group's brutality. Her interview with CNN is the first time she has ever told anyone her story. Growing up in Syria, Khadija's family ensured she got an education. She earned her college degree and began teaching elementary school. Khadija describes her family and upbringing as "not overly conservative." When the Syrian uprising began more than three and a half years ago, Khadija joined the masses who began peaceful protests against the government of President Bashar al-Assad. "We'd go out and demonstrate. The security services would chase us. We'd write on walls, have different outfits to change into," she said. "Those days were great." But it was when the Syrian uprising spiraled into chaos and violence that she said she began to lose her soul, her humanity. "Everything around us was chaos," she said, her words tumbling out. "Free Syrian Army, the regime, barrel bombs, strikes, the wounded, clinics, blood -- you want to tear yourself away, to find something to run to. "My problem was I ran away to something uglier." She found herself drawn to the eloquence of a Tunisian whom she met online. Taken with his manners, she grew to trust him over time and he gradually lured her into the Islamic State, she said. He assured her that the group was not what people thought, that it was not a terrorist organization. "He would say, 'We are going to properly implement Islam. Right now we are in a state of war, a phase where we need to control the country, so we have to be harsh.'" He told her he was coming to the Syrian city of Raqqa, that they could even get married. "I got in touch with my cousin, and she said, 'You can come join us in the Khansa'a Brigade. She was living in Raqqa with her husband who was with the Islamic State," Khadija said. The brigade is the feared, all-female police for ISIS. Khadija convinced her family to move to Raqqa, saying it would be easier to register her younger siblings in school, and that they would have the support of relatives. With her cousin to open the doors, Khadija was welcomed into the feared Khansa'a brigade. The Khansa'a Brigade is made up of around 25 to 30 women and is tasked with patrolling the streets of Raqqa to ensure that women adhere to proper clothing as outlined by the Islamic State. Beaded or slightly form-fitting abayas are banned. Women are not allowed to show their eyes. Those who broke the laws are lashed. The lashings to the women who broke ISIS rules were carried out by Umm Hamza. When Khadija first saw Umm Hamza, she was terrified. "She's not a normal female. She's huge, she has an AK, a pistol, a whip, a dagger and she wears the niqab," Khadija said. Brigade commander Umm Rayan sensed Khadija's fear "and she got close to me and said a sentence I won't forget. She said, 'We are harsh with the infidels, but merciful among ourselves.'" Khadija was trained to clean, dismantle, and fire a weapon. She was paid $200 a month and received food rations. Her family sensed Khadija was slipping away, but were helpless to stop it. Her mother tried to warn her. "She would always say to me, 'Wake up, take care of yourself. You are walking, but you don't know where you are going.'" UAE's first female fighter pilot led airstrike against ISIS Second thoughts Initally, Khadija did not pay attention to her mother's warnings, seduced by the sense of power. But eventually, she started questioning herself and the principles of the Islamic State. "At the start, I was happy with my job. I felt that I had authority in the streets. But then I started to get scared, scared of my situation. I even started to be afraid of myself." She started thinking: "I am not like this. I have a degree in education. I shouldn't be like this. What happened to me? What happened in my mind that brought me here?" And her image of ISIS began to crumble. Burned into her mind is an image she saw online of a 16-year-old boy who was crucified for rape. She questioned her inclusion in a group capable of such violence. "The worst thing I saw was a man getting his head hacked off in front of me," she said. Violence against women Even more personally, she witnessed ISIS' brand of violence reserved for women. The brigade shared its building with a man who specialized in marriage for ISIS fighters. "He was one of the worst people," she said of the man tasked with finding wives for both local and foreign fighters. "The foreign fighters are very brutal with women, even the ones they marry," she said. "There were cases where the wife had to be taken to the emergency ward because of the violence, the sexual violence." Khadija saw a future she did not want. With her commander pressuring her to submit to marriage, Khadija decided she needed to leave the brigade. "So it was at this point, I said enough. After all that I had already seen and all the times I stayed silent, telling myself, 'We're at war, then it will all be rectified.' "But after this, I decided no, I have to leave." Khadija left just days before the coalition airstrikes, but her family remains in Syria. She was smuggled across the border to Turkey. Inside the online world of the women of ISIS Life after ISIS Khadija still wears the niqab, not just to conceal her identity but also because she's struggling to adapt back to life outside the Islamic State. Regretful of her immersion in radical Islam, she is wary of another sudden change. "It has to be gradual, so that I don't become someone else. I am afraid of becoming someone else. Someone who swings, as a reaction in the other direction, after I was so entrenched in religion, that I reject religion completely," she said. Towards the end of our interview, speaking about how ISIS could have gotten a foothold in parts of Syrian society, she has a personal moment. "How did we allow them to come in? How did we allow them to rule us? There is a weakness in us." Khadija spoke to us because she said she wants people, especially women, to know the truth about ISIS. "I don't want anyone else to be duped by them. Too many girls think they are the right Islam," she said. She desperately wants to be the girl she was before falling under the spell of ISIS -- "a girl who is merry, who loves life and laughter... who loves to travel, to draw, to walk in the street with her headphones listening to music without caring what anyone thinks," she said. "I want to be like that again." http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/06/world/meast/isis-female-fighter/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 |
![]() |
|
| LordZardoz | Oct 6 2014, 04:17 PM Post #25 |
|
The problem is probably at least slightly more complicated then 'young idiot becomes curious about extremist group, joins, then changes mind'. One part to consider is that it has been 13 goddamn years since the Sept 11th attacks. A kid that was 7 years old with parents from the middle east has likely grown up dealing with the social stigma of being from that ethnic group. So that kid is now a young adult. Like many young adults, getting a worthwhile job is unlikely, and compounded by the racism. Then you can tack on the 'fuck the police' attitude that young people with no stake in the social status quo. To someone young, angry and broke, being able to shoot at 'the man' probably seems like a good idea. It is very likely that some of those who join ISIS and then change their mind were looking for a cultural identity that does not include being treated like shit. Still, being young and stupid should not protect one from all the consequences of bad decisions. As for legal repercussions, most nations have laws about joining a foreign army. I heard stories of one foreign born guy who joined the army (either US or Canada), went back to the old country, and got thrown in jail for treason. I am sure that at least some of those apply. I would probably say that they should get a formal hearing to decide of they can return to Canada. If they are permitted, they should be barred from having a passport for at least 10 years with the understanding that leaving the country for any reason during those 10 years would amount to a formal renunciation of citizenship. END COMMUNICATION |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · General Discussion · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2








3:03 AM Jul 13