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War in Israel and Palestine
Topic Started: Jul 17 2014, 09:36 AM (2,021 Views)
Deleted User
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My opinion is that they're both wrong - we need to withdraw any support / trade we have with either of them and tell them to figure it out on their own and leave us out of it.
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19nate79

Right now we give them both money so it's not that different of a position really

If rather see the money spent on just about anything too though
Edited by 19nate79, Jul 18 2014, 06:56 PM.
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dhk1980
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split decision
Jul 18 2014, 03:15 PM
spasgur
Jul 18 2014, 08:06 AM
split decision
Jul 17 2014, 11:08 PM


As I said, both sides have made transgressions. But the anti-Semitic sentiment here extends beyond this thread. It's a handful of people, but you'd have to make an effort to turn a blind eye to it.

I don't know if you're directing your post at me or not but I'm not trying to spew anti-semitic stuff here. I don't like the way that Israel are handling this situation and have been handling it ever since they were given their land after WWII. Nor do I like the way that they were given their land.

I also do not like the way Hamas works though. I'm not picking sides here, I think both are at fault but I cannot blame Palestinians for being pissed off about being thrown out of their land because of a European guilt trip.

I was half-joking when I said they should have given the jews Vermont or Maine. Moving them from one place where they were percecuted, Germany and Easter Europe, to another place where they were and still are disliked was a big mistake IMO.
Spasgur, my problem is with those who like to spout off with:

"Fuck the Jews (or the Muslims or the Christians or whoever), they're all like this..."

The stereotyping drives me crazy!

The only time I would consciously do that is when referring to sworn members of radical groups like ISIS, like Al-Qaeda, who have pledged their lives to wipe out Westerners. Those are the enemy.

There are good people and assholes within every other group. No need to make sweeping statements about them all (not saying you did).

you're so full of shit splittie . u never come to my defense when these ass clowns say racist shit about me. u must be a dan's fellow jew. =)
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split decision
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Porn savant
dhk1980
Jul 18 2014, 10:13 PM
split decision
Jul 18 2014, 03:15 PM
spasgur
Jul 18 2014, 08:06 AM
split decision
Jul 17 2014, 11:08 PM


As I said, both sides have made transgressions. But the anti-Semitic sentiment here extends beyond this thread. It's a handful of people, but you'd have to make an effort to turn a blind eye to it.

I don't know if you're directing your post at me or not but I'm not trying to spew anti-semitic stuff here. I don't like the way that Israel are handling this situation and have been handling it ever since they were given their land after WWII. Nor do I like the way that they were given their land.

I also do not like the way Hamas works though. I'm not picking sides here, I think both are at fault but I cannot blame Palestinians for being pissed off about being thrown out of their land because of a European guilt trip.

I was half-joking when I said they should have given the jews Vermont or Maine. Moving them from one place where they were percecuted, Germany and Easter Europe, to another place where they were and still are disliked was a big mistake IMO.
Spasgur, my problem is with those who like to spout off with:

"Fuck the Jews (or the Muslims or the Christians or whoever), they're all like this..."

The stereotyping drives me crazy!

The only time I would consciously do that is when referring to sworn members of radical groups like ISIS, like Al-Qaeda, who have pledged their lives to wipe out Westerners. Those are the enemy.

There are good people and assholes within every other group. No need to make sweeping statements about them all (not saying you did).

you're so full of shit splittie . u never come to my defense when these ass clowns say racist shit about me. u must be a dan's fellow jew. =)
Korean and gay? God damn, talk about a double whammy!

:P

I'm not Jewish. Don't even have anyone in my family who is. All Catholics. I gave up on religion in university.
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dhk1980
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so it only college to make u forsake your beliefs splittie? i'm beginning to think you're weak sauce. =P
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Darc Requiem
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19nate79
Jul 18 2014, 03:52 AM
Darc Requiem
Jul 18 2014, 01:16 AM
19nate79
Jul 18 2014, 12:35 AM
I don't recall but did we condemn England when they were in India or France in all the countries they were in?
The US didn't really become a world power until after WWII.
The British left Hong Kong in 1999 I believe.
Really that's the example you are going tout. It had long been agreed that the British would leave Hong Kong in 1999. That's not even taking into account that the people living in Hong Kong weren't exactly excited about returning to Chinese rule.
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ACIDBATHBELFORT

The US needs to quit playing big brother in that region and siding with Israel. We need to leave other countries handle their own business and quit taking sides with countries in turmoil. We send all sorts of money and weapons to the side we want to win then they screw us over.

There are more than enough issues here that need addressing. For once we need to think of America first.
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danl08
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ACIDBATHBELFORT
Jul 19 2014, 09:35 AM
The US needs to quit playing big brother in that region and siding with Israel. We need to leave other countries handle their own business and quit taking sides with countries in turmoil. We send all sorts of money and weapons to the side we want to win then they screw us over.

There are more than enough issues here that need addressing. For once we need to think of America first.
I tend to agree with you, but then we have situations like Ukraine and Libya and Syria.
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danl08
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spasgur
Jul 18 2014, 03:06 PM
danl08
Jul 18 2014, 02:28 PM
jews have have lived in the area continuously for centuries. There were Jews living in Gaza before 0 AD, there are census reports from the late 1400s showing thousands living there then and even up to the middle of the 20th Century. Why should they have to live somewhere else in the world? The ones that came after the forming of Israel were at one time from Judea/Samaria and left/were forced to leave after being invaded by Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Ottoman, etc.

After WWII the territory was being run by the Brits and the UN decided to form a Jewish state and an Arab one that would sit next to it. The Arabs didn't like that and chose instead to attack the Jews otherwise there would be 2 states today. All of the countries in this area were formed in similar manners - Syria, Iraq, Jordan, etc...
Jews have lived there for centuries but so have muslims and before both of those religions there were even older civilizations. I don't think the jews who lived there pre WWII should have to move at all, but the founding a jewish state in the middle of a predominantly muslim/Arab area was pretty much bound to mean trouble. Jews have a religious connection to Israel and Jerusalem so I can somewhat understand how it is such a holy place for them but that is IMO not a good reason to split up the land there.
Jews have been persecuted for millennia and I can see how it must be important to find a place where they can live in peace, away from primitive and medieval bigotry but the way it was handled was poor IMO, and how it has been handled since is just a result of giving them a country in a hot zone.

The Arabs are not without fault though and I'm not trying to imply only jews and the West are to be blamed. It should be possible to for the muslims and jews to live together but religion and ignorance can turn people into intolerant and hateful dicks.
I can't see this ongoing conflict ever ending. There might be periods of low activity and truce might come into effect but eventually there will be a suicide bombing or a rocket attack and then we're back to the endless revenge merry-go-round.

EDIT: What I meant by disproportionality was, that Israel seem to kill way too many civilians to how many Hamas they kill. Many of the attacks are done on speculative grounds and we the information is two way. I don't mean that they should use the same kind of attacks as Hamas and only use primitive rockets, I only think that they should do their attacks a little less recklessly than they're currently doing. A recent Vice News video showed that an Israeli rocket hit just meters away from the international hotel in Gaza City where a lot of the international press live when they're in the Gaza strip and there were a report a couple of days ago of a rocket hitting a beach where kids were playing. There are too many of these cases. I'm not implying that only Israel does this, the West are very good at fucking up too.
I'll take the last part first: Hamas intentionally fires rockets from areas where there are civilians. This includes residences, hospitals, schools and other public buildings. The UNRWA (which hates Israel) which operates schools and other services inside Gaza announced this week that Hamas was storing 20 rockets in one of their schools - where kids are! Again, Hamas does this on purpose. When Israel destroys these targets (which they have evry right to do) they get blamed for destroying things that aren't military or are near other things (like the hotel). Hamas has also encouraged their people NOT to leave the area when they know Israel is going to attack - they want them to stay and die and become martyrs. They then parade the dead out to show how awful Israel is. Sorry, but if you are firing rockets at civilian populations in Israel from a building, we are going to blow it up.


Jews living in the area - Muslims haven't even been around for that long, although Arabs have. The Arabs are not indigenous to the area and were one of the many invaders to the land over time. As people invaded they kicked out Jews (and other people who lived there, but no longer exist) so the population decreased over time. That being said, there have always Jews living in the area of Judea and Samaria. There are reports of Jews living in Gaza going back before 0 AD with census reports from the 1400s and even up to the mid 20th century. The families that were kicked out of there when Israel left had roots that went back hundreds of years.
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dhk1980
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ACIDBATHBELFORT
Jul 19 2014, 09:35 AM
The US needs to quit playing big brother in that region and siding with Israel. We need to leave other countries handle their own business and quit taking sides with countries in turmoil. We send all sorts of money and weapons to the side we want to win then they screw us over.

There are more than enough issues here that need addressing. For once we need to think of America first.
it will never happen. u only have to live in nyc to notice the influence that jews have in this country.
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The Juggernaut
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Israel is obviously trying to kill civilians and any claims to the opposite are kinda dumb. Consider that Gaza is a small, densely populate area (more people in it than Washington DC):

Posted Image


(Most of these people are descendants of Israeli arabs ethnically cleansed by Israeli state terrorism.)

Not really many non-civilian areas to shoot from.

And considering Israel and Egypt have Gaza under siege, nowhere to run to either.

Now considering that Israel is using flechette shells which spray shrapnel over a large area:

Posted Image

It's clear that they actually want to increase civilian death.

This is consistent with when they bombed those 4 boys on a beach. There were no structures there to target, and nothing to impede their view, yet they still blasted them with artillery:

Posted Image

Here they were running from the first blast ^


And here's the result of the second shot, clearly demonstrating intent:

Posted Image


We should have no part in supporting this.


Edited by The Juggernaut, Jul 22 2014, 02:14 PM.
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Deleted User
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I agree 100%. The US needs to tell Israel to go fuck itself and treat them just like we would anyone else who is doing this shit.

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Skeletonrock
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I don't know how to embed this video, but I thought this was pretty great.


http://on.cc.com/1sJans0

HELP ME MODS
Edited by Skeletonrock, Jul 22 2014, 06:20 PM.
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Deleted User
Deleted User

Wow., You're worse than me lol
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Skeletonrock
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This piece of shit new board has got me befuddled
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