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How are the rules in game going?
Topic Started: Dec 18 2008, 02:05 PM (198 Views)
Neko
Insanity
I'm only posting this due to an incident that happened today, not gonna say names of the people involved, also I would like to ask to not to flame or start any stupid arguing over here. I'm gonna use person A, B, C and D.

Okay so here's the situation:

Person A asks Person B if he could help him to kill Anego, person B says "sure, I'll help you if you can find one". Person A goes to check maps and he couldn't find any so he tells to person A that he's going to wait there for spawn.

Person C comes into the map and you can obviously see a red dot in there, usually people here sees someone and just change channels, but no, he decides to check by himself without caring of the person that was there. Person A calls Person B since Anego spawned and the other guy didn't care that the map was already taken. Person B asks Person C what happened and he says that he got there 1st which isn't true. Person B asks person C to stop but he didn't so Person B starts to kill as well, person D joins person C on the ks fest.

The point I'm trying to get to is this; are we allowed to take other people maps without asking? I never heard of this before or saw it happen, not on ExiaMS but as we are getting more people , finding a boss to kill is not that easy but there is really no need for this, so my question is

Where is this server and GM staff standing about situations like this (ks people)?

1.- Whoever is in the map 1st gets the right of it?
2.- A higher level is allowed to take a lower level map/boss without even asking 1st?
3.- Is ks allowed here?

I saw a threatening on other thread of some new guy "expect to be ks 24/7 "

I would like if someone from the GM staff or Dylan post their opinion about this since it can turn into a problem and will lead to drama. Also, please refrain from posting anything not related to this, no flaming or drama. Post your opinion and that's it.

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Andre
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Neko
Dec 18 2008, 02:05 PM
The point I'm trying to get to is this; are we allowed to take other people maps without asking? I never heard of this before or saw it happen, not on ExiaMS but as we are getting more people , finding a boss to kill is not that easy but there is really no need for this, so my question is
In GMS, it's usually considered unethical to take someone's map without asking. Usually, doing so results in guild leaders contacting eachother and what not. Dunno if this carries over to pservers though.
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Zeek
Just another average member
Eh, it's hard to figure out exactly what happened here. You're not supposed to kill-steal people, but at the same time, with three channels you're not really supposed to camp them either. If the spawn timer is known and both person B and C know when Anego's about to spawn, person B getting in the map two minutes earlier doesn't entitle them to own the Anego. It's not really kill-stealing until Anego actually spawns and persons A and B have been hitting her for a while, in which case other people that show up later should leave them alone if they don't want any help. But if Anego hasn't spawned yet and person C is waiting too, they have just as much right to it as anyone else when it does.

I'm also against the whole "mine" mentality where players see nobody else in a map for 0.2 seconds and think they own it and everything inside. If someone accidentily gets too close to Anego and dies and goes back to town instead of respawning in the Free Market and someone else finds the Anego in the 30 seconds it takes to get back, it's wrong for the newer person to just start screaming "ccplz@@@". And not just Anego, with any map, really, although there isn't much competetion for individual training maps there way there is for bosses. The person coming back shouldn't have to leave just for not being in the map for 30 seconds, and if someone else just showed up in the past minute or so, they haven't exactly exerted enough effort to call a KSing claim on the returning person. Maybe after a good 15 minutes or so, they have the right to be left alone in whatever map, but seriously, you don't own something the moment you step foot into an empty map.

Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do if persons C, D, E, F, G, and/or H show up after Anego's already been 80% damaged and loot the drops when it dies. If the same people are doing it over and over, eventually word might get around and they become shunned and whatnot, but there has to be a huge number of people vouching that the person has done wrong again and again before a GM could take action against them. Otherwise, you could just a few friends to gang up and report an innocent person out of some misunderstanding, and that just becomes a huge mess. Until then, you just kinda have to deal with it unless you can get solid, concrete proof.
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Neko
Insanity
Girlfriend
Dec 18 2008, 03:15 PM
If the spawn timer is known and both person B and C know when Anego's about to spawn, person B getting in the map two minutes earlier doesn't entitle them to own the Anego. It's not really kill-stealing until Anego actually spawns and persons A and B have been hitting her for a while, in which case other people that show up later should leave them alone if they don't want any help. But if Anego hasn't spawned yet and person C is waiting too, they have just as much right to it as anyone else when it does.


Until then, you just kinda have to deal with it unless you can get solid, concrete proof.
That is the kind of mentality of why people leaves gMS pretty much, server it's been here for a while and this never happened, I'm not gonna name people or anything cause I'll just let it go hoping for it to not to happen again but what if it does?

And are you saying If you are waiting on a boss spawn, I can track you and wait with you and whenever it spawns I'll kill too? I don't think so

And for the last there is solid proof tyvm.
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Reiatz
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GM's break up ksing when we are on, but there really is nothing we can do. Banning would be way to harsh, but if they continue to ks you and many others, then we can ban them for harassment. All you can do now is actually try to get some proof of you guys being there first and we could maybe temp ban? but that would be Dylan's decision.
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Neko
Insanity
I don't want anyone to get banned, last thing I want is drama, I'm just asking if the situation I mentioned above is allowed and how it would be dealt with?
Edited by Neko, Dec 18 2008, 03:56 PM.
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Zeek
Just another average member
Neko
Dec 18 2008, 03:23 PM
And are you saying If you are waiting on a boss spawn, I can track you and wait with you and whenever it spawns I'll kill too? I don't think so
How would you know if I was waiting for a boss spawn or not? You're going to continuously /find Girlfriend until you find me at the Parlor without an Anego run already in progress? Good luck; I'm a Bishop. And while there are people known for killing most of the boss spawns, but they typically do so after a restart or channel surf for them, and if you find them in a boss room, they're most likely already killing, not waiting for it. And if there are open channels, you can wait in another room if you feel like waiting without knowing exactly when each channel will spawn. Most players don't go out of their way to wait for a shared (not partied) Anego anyway.

What DOES happen is that since there are three channels, there could be three different people camping the Parlor waiting. Does that mean that the entire rest of the server should be locked out of Anego? It's not hard to get three people in the same guild to camp like that and call other guildmates when it does spawn. That kind of monopoly is why the rule is that you don't have the right to claim a boss spawn before it happens.

And yes, it is sad that people can get away with being idiots on GMS because there's such a huge number of players and it's impossible to eradicate them and bar them from interfering with the more serious matters. Before the Zakum Squad, you couldn't kick out that stray that just came in with the group and takes up the #30 slot and prevents one of your own group from entering. GM's did occasionally remove people, but only in an effort to enforce the tight Zakum schedule, but the odds you could actually find and contact a GM to do so were practically nothing, especially if you didn't spam Super Megaphones you bought with real money.

Here? There's no schedule. So while you can't guarentee yourself a shot at Zakum (the reactors can get used in all three channels and don't reset until the server does, so currently there's no summonable Zakum until a restart) or any other boss, there's no rule that says you can't kill three in a row if no other persons or group wants to kill one after the restart. So basically the rule is you're not supposed to interrupt a run in progress or overrun someone's training grounds with regular spawning monsters, but you also have to share, which means you can't claim a boss before it even spawns or claim a training ground you see empty for 5 seconds.
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Hersheys
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...urge for Hersheys...
So... my opinion about kill-stealing:

-It's somehow VERY VERY rude to just pop-up in a map and kill-steal someone else's kill without even asking or sometimes worse, saying a single word, specially when the map has already been taken by someone else.
- Since the community is growing quite a bit lately, with 3 channels, it's hard to find some bosses. I know that many of you would want to have the kill yourselves but that would lead to selfishness (I know we are all selfish in some way), but in this case, can't we think of others too and share a kill? Just party up with a couple of people who are looking for the same boss and then have fun! :]
- Girlfriend, you took the words out of me, I agree with you about the fact of people's thought about "my spot", there is not such thing as "my spot" in here, we got equal rights to be in the map and kill in the map. Maybe sometimes the person might be getting to our nerves because all kills have been stolen by another person. If this is the case, ask politely, nicely to the person so that he/she either team up with you as a party, either take top/down or left/right side of the map or any other method so that both end up with something that they will be satisfied to agree to.

This is just my opinion about kill stealing, I'm just giving my opinion and I'm not trying to argue, just expressing my idea about it :O
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Zeek
Just another average member
CherryGlow
Dec 18 2008, 04:05 PM
So... my opinion about kill-stealing:

-It's somehow VERY VERY rude to just pop-up in a map and kill-steal someone else's kill without even asking or sometimes worse, saying a single word, specially when the map has already been taken by someone else.
Amen.

And the problem with this is that you can't do anything about it. Unless either a GM catches them in the act of showing up and silently KSing, or a dozen different, unrelated people report this, you can't prove anything. Screenshots don't show anything but the person there, and you could be KSing them or they could have mistakenly been there for two seconds, which is hardly an offense. Now if there's a conversation captured in said screenshot, sure, the offender can say something incriminating that could prove they're guilty. Otherwise? Well you just can't prosecute on a blank screenshot of two people just being in the same map, or else I could easily frame someone just to get them punished. Not that I would EVER do anything like that, but there are immature, spiteful players that would. Usually they're the ones KSing you anyway.
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Reiatz
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We really can't ban or warn anyone for being rude, unless they are really harassing you. I'd have to agree with GirlFriend on this, you technically can't claim a boss before it spawns. You can somewhat claim a map if you're actually training on it, but nevertheless it's still open to everyone. If you guys wanted more channels, you could just donate more and hopefully Dylan would be able to upgrade the server, but for now, you're going to have to suck it up.

However, if you were already killing an anego and the person walked inside your map and started attacking and you asked them nicely to leave, but they decided to ignore you or cuss you out, then that would be policy breaking. But yeah if those "people" are targeting you and bothering your gaming experience over jealousy, then that could be another form of harassment.
Edited by Reiatz, Dec 18 2008, 05:00 PM.
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