A forum for a community of people interested in discussing salvation in Jesus Christ by grace through faith
|
What Do You Mean You Were 'called' By God To...?; Does God reveal His will to you?
|
|
Topic Started: Apr 20 2008, 09:55 PM (320 Views)
|
|
lightninboy
|
Apr 20 2008, 09:55 PM
Post #1
|
|
- Posts:
- 8,429
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #2
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2008
|
Grace Evangelical Society Online Chat WebBoard archive:
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
For years I have been puzzled by the question, or rather by the statement of people who say something to the effect "Well, God called me to move to Iowa," or "The Lord led me to accept this job," etc. My problem with that has been how do you separate your "feelings," or motives, or wishes or desires from God's "call"? I've had people come up to me and ask me "How do I know God's will or call for my life?" I have to admit, I've been hard pressed to give an intelligent answer. I've always felt that most of these "calls" are nothing more than the person's wishful thinking, especially when the church they were "called" to start ended in utter failure. So, who was mistaken? The individual "called" or God? We all know the answer to that one. Recently a scripture just jumped out at me that answered my question and brought clarity to the issue for me. And that was John 6:40:
"For this is My Father's will and His purpose, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in and cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day." Amplified Bible
I just finished a MUST READ article in the latest issue of the Grace Journal, Spring 2007, Vol. 20, Number 38 by Ken Hornok entitled "Does God give subjective Revelation Today?.." What an excellent article. What do YOU think about this subject? I'd be interested in your experiences, thoughts, etc., on this. Has anyone else had trouble trying to decide what God's will is for you personally, or what it means to be "led" or "called" by God? Especially when things don't work out like you wanted or expected?
- David Wyatt
-
Sure have, bro. Donald. I am glad you brought this up. Thank you. In the case in which you mentioned about a church ending in utter failure, is it possible that the Lord did use that unfortunate situation to teach some lessons, test faith, etc.? The way I see it, nothing should be wasted in the Christian life. Even when we fail miserably (I am the poster child for this!), we can learn from it & grow if we let the Lord use it in our lives. I like what I believe Dave Breese once said about Col.3:23. If we can do as unto the Lord what we are doing, then assume it is the will of God. That is not his exact quote but I trust the meaning comes through. Anyway, food for thought & I appreciate you bringing it up. God Bless.
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
Thanks for your comments, David. As I said, this subject has always puzzled me, since in my life I've heard over and over again how “the Lord led me," or you hear "God called me" to do this, that or the other thing. Then, later, when things didn't work out, you have the problem with doubt. Could God have been mistaken? Well, no, that's not possible, so I must have NOT been called after all. So how do you tell the difference? I'm at the point, and have been for quite some time now (months, not years), that God calls people ONLY through the written Word. If it isn't written in the Word, it's not a "call." God created us in His image with the ability to think, reason and do when it comes to everyday decisions. So let's admit it. When we want to be a teacher, or move to a new state, etc., it is OUR OWN reasons and and our own desires why we do what we do. That way we can't be doubting or questioning God when things don't work out. I guess what I'm trying to say is if a person is hearing "voices" or hearing God "speak to them," and "calling" them, they need to be careful because it is almost without a doubt not God. I used to sell Encyclopaedia Britannica and I remember making a presentation at the U.S. Air Force Academy. The couple says "We need to go into the bedroom and pray about this." They come out a little later and tell me "I'm sorry, God TOLD us not to buy the set." Being a salesman, I told them, “That's funny, while you were in the bedroom praying about it, I was out here praying about it, and God told me that you SHOULD BUY it.” They told me to leave. The point is I thought about that on the way home and thought what utter nonsense all of that was. God didn't tell them any such thing. And He didn't speak to me either. I decided then, that type of stuff brings ridicule to fundamental Christianity. So, David, I'm concluding that type of blaming or crediting God with the personal decisions one makes is an absurdity.
- Dennis Campbell
-
Romans 8:14: "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God."
Acts 16:6-7: "Now when they had gone through Phrygia and the region of Galatia, they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to preach the word in Asia. After they had come to Mysia, they tried to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit did not permit them."
1Cor 12:11: "But one and the same Spirit works all these things..."
Are you saying that we don't have the same Spirit, or that He simply has changed the way He deals with His children? If the latter, do you have a scriptural reference to back up your assertion?
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
For Romans 8;14, we are led by the Spirit. The question is how. By subjective feelings or experiences? By voices in the head? I don't think so even though that is what most people seem to think. I would say we are "led by the Spirit," when we read, meditate and study the Living Word of God. Ps 119:9-16 sheds like on the subject. As for Acts 16 are you saying that they heard voices from the Holy Spirit. They were out preaching and they heard a audible voice? And we do have the same Spirit, but the question is HOW is one led. I've seen way too much abuse of people saying “The Lord told me this,” or “The Lord told me that.” You want to know God's will for you. I think John 6;40 is enlightening on this issue. Go to the Word and stay in the Word. I reject the idea that people hear directly from God. I remember one guy telling me that he had prayed and God told him to divorce his wife of 30 years and marry his secretary who was 20 years younger than him. I told him “It wasn't God that told you that.” I do not believe that "feelings" or "experiences" are a good guide and I certainly do not think it is a good idea to rely on the same.
- Dennis Campbell
-
We know that we were led to Christ -- "No one comes to me but that the Father draws him." I don't know if Paul heard an audible voice -- he certainly did on the road to Damascus. And he was yet to be an Apostle. I do know that he said that the Spirit restrained him. He didn't search the scriptures to learn that. Give me a scriptural reference that indicates that the Spirit no longer leads us. By the way, your position puts you in jeopardy. I believe that the Bible teaches that works motivated by the flesh, even if their intention is to serve God, are unacceptable to God, witness King Saul: He was told to kill all of the Amalakites and all the stock, but he spared the king and spared the choicest of the stock to offer a sacrifice to God. He thought he was honoring God, but he was not acting in obedience to God and lost his kingdom. But if we are not led by the Spirit, how do we know that our deeds are acceptable to Him?
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
I've given scriptures on how the Bible says the Spirit leads us. Do you think you should hear voices or rely on your feelings? if so, then you need to give me scripture for that position. The question is not IF the Spirit leads, but how? As for Paul, that backs up my position. His experience is recorded in the Word. Someone that tells me the Lord told him to move to Utah and start a church is NOT recorded in the Word. Almost all examples of dreams or voices with Prophets or Apostles are recorded. I thought Ps 119;9-16 was good. My position is not in peril. I trust completely on the promises of God. For example, John 6:17. Is there a part of that verse where you disagree with Jesus? Also, I have repeatedly stated on this board that works have nothing to do with regeneration or salvation. You can say they are the fruits of being saved and I agree with that, but I still think it is incorrect to make that some type of litmus test since NONE of us (at least not me) rely on my faith, my feelings or my works) to give me assurance of salvation. My faith is not in my faith or works, but faith in Christ and His promises, especially as related in John. ”Those that believe in me HAVE eternal life.” I find that very clear. It doesn't say “Those that believe in me, have many good works throughout life up to when you die, have eternal life.” Works are fine, even good, but they do not prove your salvation is secure. I know MacArthur has a whole list of works to prove your salvation, but I don't agree with him at that. (I'm at work and this is between calls--and we are busy--so if this comes out disjointed please forgive me.) I know my deeds are acceptable to God when I follow what is written in his word. And even at that, they don't merit a thing toward salvation. They certainly result in rewards, but that is a different issue. I'm absolutely SECURE in my position, my salvation, and have been for a long time. I do not rely on my works or feelings or experiences for that, but on the promises of Jesus Christ.
- Dennis Campbell
-
You misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that good works or bad works affect your salvation, only that if they are motivated by the flesh and not the Spirit then we are at risk that they count for nothing. They may not be pleasing to God, just as Saul's actions, done with good intent, were rejected by God. Regarding Paul, why would our position be different from his? If the Holy Spirit restrained him, why can the Holy Spirit not restrain us? As for voices or feelings, I have never heard a voice, although others say they do, and I am skeptical. But I cannot categorically deny it, because the Bible records many instances of the Lord audibly speaking to someone. As to feelings, I think that we often can discern between a prompting of the Holy Spirit, an impelling to do something, that has nothing to do with feelings. I think the proof of that would lie in the effect. Here is an example: Howard Hendricks, a well-respected Bible expositor associated with the Dallas Theological Seminary, recites a story in which the board is meeting to pray about a financial crisis. "Lord," one of them prayed, "You own the cattle on a thousand hills. Will you sell some of them and give us the proceeds?" Shortly after that, a cattleman arrived at the seminary with a check, saying that "I have sold some cattle and I believe the Lord wants me to give you the proceeds." This story is not from some hyper-charismatic nut, but from a conservative, well-grounded evangelical. So, the cattleman could rightfully say that his leading from God was shown to be true by the effect of his response. Returning to "voices," consider John 10:2-4: "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice." Of course, this surely refers to hearing from the Lord in a spiritual sense, but if we can hear His voice unto salvation, why not to a particular action?
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
Right! Works if done while unregenerated are as filthy rags, and if done after regeneration are great but not toward salvation. So we agree. As for Paul, our situation is different, at least I think so, because he was Paul and his conversion is recorded in the Bible. Is there an exception to the rule? I suppose there could be, but I would not bet on it. I don't know of anyone else who was converted like Paul was. You say the proof would lie in the effect. That is why it is so hard to convince someone that "feelings" should not be a part of the whole process. But what about those that say it was God speaking to me, they do something, it turns out to be a disaster, then they say it's God's fault or they misinterpreted the whole thing? I've seen way too much of this stuff to say God directs us on whether to turn left or right, accept this job or that. I quoted scriptures to show that I think one needs to rely on the Word of God written to discern the will of God. This nonsense of “God told me to do this” or “that” is just that, nonsense, in my humble opinion. As for your example of the cattleman, that's maybe one in a hundred million. What about all those, even in your own experience, that turned out to be false or end in failure? Personally I would not even want to depend on my subjective feelings for ANYTHING. I rely totally on the promises recorded in the Bible. To me, that is much more of a solid foundation. And for hearing the voice in John, that is spiritually discerned. That's a parable and I don't understand that as meaning you literally hear a voice. I've never heard a voice from God, yet I KNOW FOR CERTAIN that I'm saved and NOW HAVE eternal life. Period! Would you actually feel assured of your salvation if you had to depend on your subjective feelings? I wouldn't, that's for sure. Give me the written Word that can be objectively verified. No emotionalism, or feelings, or experiences. They are too flaky.
|
No I will not, No I will not Not go quietly
|
| |
|
lightninboy
|
Apr 20 2008, 09:55 PM
Post #2
|
|
- Posts:
- 8,429
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #2
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2008
|
Grace Evangelical Society Online Chat WebBoard archive:
- Danny M
-
Hi, Donald. I agree with you 100%. People are relying on feelings when they make statements like "God told me to move to Iowa" and so on. Since we don't hear an audible voice, no one should make statements like these. We have the freedom to choose a profession, live where we want, etc. God doesn't call anyone to a specific profession. We choose these things. And, like you said, following God's will involves being in the Word, not waiting for signs to move to Iowa . I also loved the story about the couple praying about whether or not they should buy the encyclopedia. You're right - these kinds of sentiments by those in Christendom are one of the reasons we Christians get ridiculed. Yes, being led by the Spirit all has to do with staying in the Word and applying its principles, and has absolutely nothing to do with mystical experiences, etc.
- Dennis Campbell
-
Let's say that you are faced with a decision. It's an important decision. Are you saying that God cares so little for us that even if we petition him for guidance he will not give it? Why, then, would Paul admonish us to "Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God..."? We are told that "for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit...." If we aren't hearing from the Lord in some sense, then this passage is rendered meaningless, as well as this from James: "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him." Indeed, these words of Jesus become meaningless if you are correct: "But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit." That certainly sounds like the leading of the Holy Spirit. If your position is correct, then in effect you are saying that when we are born again, we are on our own. We know God's will as it is revealed in Scripture, but not necessarily in everyday situations. We have to puzzle things out ourselves, without any guidance from the Holy Spirit. And what of these words spoken by the Lord: "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you." That seems to unambiguously say that we shall be led by the Spirit indeed. The Apostles said that "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things...." How did they know it seemed good to the Holy Spirit unless they had heard from Him or were led by Him in some way? It makes no sense to me that we cannot turn to God in time of need for direction, wisdom and understanding. That seems contrary to His nature and His love for His Children. He does not abandon us to our own devices and understanding.
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
No, I'm not saying if born again we are on our own. We have the written Word of God and that Word tells us what God's will is for us. Do you agree with John 6;40 and Ps 119;9-16 where God's will for us is made clear? I keep coming back to the Word. You seem to rely on what you "feel" God is saying to you and since you don't know, you act on what you desire. That is too subjective. I mean act on your best decisions but to say God told me this or that like I've heard from so many people, to me, is to ...well...subjective. I don't think any of the scripture you mentioned mean that we hear voices from God. You are going on what you "feel" and nothing else. God speaks to us through His objectively written Word. I don't believe anyone when they tell me God said not to buy these books. “We prayed and God said ‘No, don't give up your job.’” To me it means that is what they are thinking, not what God is telling them. I despise all this emotionalism and experiences. If God speaks to you and tells you what to do, that's fine. He speaks to me through the Word. This is between calls, so I can't deal with anything in depth. But my position is clear. I flat out do not believe God speaks to people in an audible voice. It is through the Word. You say; "Why, then, would Paul admonish us to ‘Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God...’?” He tells us that because he wants us to be grounded in the Word. He expects us to be familiar with the teachings of the church and with the Scriptures (OT) in most cases during His time. Like it says in Joshua 1:8--"Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful." Being "in the Word" day and night will direct you. Paul is not talking about hearing voices from God. Just like when it says if you are hauled before the court don't worry about what to say because it will be given to you what to say. That doesn't mean you are going to hear God's voice dictating to you. It means be sound in the Word and you'll KNOW what to say. You don't get overcome by God like Moses did. No one does. They just think they do and the absurdity never ends. You know, I'm sure, from your own dealing with people some of the nonsense out there. Know the truth and the truth will set you free. How do you know the truth? Through THE WORD.
- Dennis Campbell
-
The Bible disagrees with you. It is replete with incidents of God either speaking to people, or leading them. You say that you rely on the written Word, but you ignore all of the scriptures cited that say that the Holy Spirit will guide us, give us wisdom, and give us words to say, and all of the scriptural references to the Holy Spirit restraining, approving, and so on. By your reasoning, the Apostles were relying on subjective feelings, but the Bible in no way suggests that. Just the opposite. The Word tells us that the Spirit is available to us in our time of need. To say He is not is to dispute with God, not man. You also fail to address the biblical admonitions to seek the wisdom of God and to "come boldly" to Him in time of need. So I am faced with deciding between the Scriptures, which say the Spirit does lead us and give us wisdom, and you, who say that He does not. Which do you think I will choose?
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
The Bible does not disagree with me. You keep referring to what the Apostles did, etc. I keep saying “True enough.” Most instances in the Bible where there are dreams or voices refer to prophets or apostles. Those things were recorded for our benefit. All the scriptures that talk about seeking God etc., are referring to the Word, or in the case of the early, early church, the teachings of the apostles. Know the scriptures and teachings and you will know what to say and how to act. None of those scriptures say a person is going to hear a voice of God speaking directly to them and telling them what to say. Like I said in the last post referring to Joshua. Know the Word and you'll know God's will for you. Know the scriptures and you will know what to say. It doesn't mean God is going to spoon feed you words to say like a tape recording--voice and all. Your way results in people imagining, or worse, doing what they want, then justifying it by saying God told me to do this or that. I stick to the objective Word. You seem to want to rely on subjective feelings, because you most certainly can't verify what God told you to do--unless you are hearing voices too. Even at that, people say that all the time. Look at the gal that murdered her kids in the bathtub. She said God told her to do it. Do you believe that? Of course not. You are going strictly on feelings. That's not for me because feelings can be, and in most cases are, wrong. And we are to come boldly to Him. That's what the Word is for. In fact, if you are steeped in the Word, you will already know what to do. You say you have to choose between scripture or me so who will you choose. I guess you will choose to hear voices from God. Just exactly how do you determine whether those voices are from God or something in your own head that you want to hear?
- Dennis Campbell
-
You keep bouncing back and forth between audible voices and subjective feelings. Well, I will accept that God has never spoken to you in an audible voice. That's pretty easy for me to do, since God has never spoken to me in an audible voice. But I cannot say with certainty that God never speaks to anyone that way, because throughout history, according to the Bible, He has done so. But the real issue here is whether or not God leads us -- directs our paths, causes us to make wise choices, gives us words to speak. Well, the written Word specifically says that He does. He says that we have been ordained to good works that He has prepared in advance for us to do. To say that any perceived leading from the Holy Spirit merely is subjective feeling is to do violence to the Scriptures. We might as well do what Thomas Jefferson did when he cut out all scriptures that described miracles, and get out our Magic Markers and blot out all the scriptures that talk about the Holy Spirit giving us wisdom, giving us words to say, giving "light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.” Jesus said "He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come." Forget audible voices. Clearly, the Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit will guide us and grant us wisdom. If you deny that, then you simply are choosing to reject those Scriptures with which you do not agree, do not fit your preconceived notions, or do not align themselves with your personal experiences -- in other words, your subjective feelings.
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
Right. He has spoken as recorded in the Bible to apostles and prophets, and when He has, it is stated. But other than that, as far as I know, He doesn't speak in voices. I'm not bouncing back and forth. I'm talking about the same thing. You either hear voices, or you don't and are relying on subjective feelings. You haven't told me how you determine whether it is God speaking to you or how you determine that your feelings are not your own, but God directing you. That, my friend, is subjective to the max. You don't need feelings or voices. You need only know the Word of God and you will know what to say and how to act. You don't need extrabiblical revelation.
- Ryan Spears
-
When preachers get "called," it’s always to a bigger church with a higher salary Maybe we aren't supposed to know some things for sure: if we did, it might require less faith. I think we have the freedom to make our own choices. I also think God communicates with us through spirit and word. In this available dialogue we have a responsibility to seek, read, think, feel, speak, and listen. Then we have questions to answer. What am I thinking and feeling? Is it rational? How does what I think and feel compare to what the Word says? Does it even matter? What does the wiser counsel of other believers have to say? How significant is the choice - buying a toaster or moving to China? Clear answers may or may not exist. Are we called to love one another - yes. Am I called to a certain job - maybe. Certain answers to specific questions may not be clearly available. But there are resources to help us. In the end, WE have to make a decision. I don't like to say God has called me to something the Word does not specifically reveal. If thoughts, feelings, counsel, and the Word all seem to line up, then maybe it's a call. Though it may be enough for me to make an easy decision, it may not be enough to label it a call. Is it ok to admit we don't know some things for sure? I think so. Maybe it's those decisions that require more faith.
|
No I will not, No I will not Not go quietly
|
| |
|
lightninboy
|
Apr 20 2008, 09:56 PM
Post #3
|
|
- Posts:
- 8,429
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #2
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2008
|
Grace Evangelical Society Online Chat WebBoard archive:
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
Ryan, well said. I basically agree with your statement. To me, EVERYTHING has to be checked against the Word. And we were given a brain to make decisions for ourselves based on our knowledge of that Word. Maybe I'm not being clear, but I see no need for extrabiblical revelation. We have the Word. God does not speak through voices as far as I can tell. I know a lot of people who claim to hear from God every day, but I believe that to be nonsense. For me, stick to the Word.
- Dennis Campbell
-
Well, the Word says that we are God's if we are led by the Spirit. It says that He will give us wisdom. It says that He will put words into our mouths. It says that He will guide our paths. It commands us to seek wisdom from God. Clearly, the Word says we can be led by the Holy Spirit. It is our task to discern what is God's leading and what is our own desire. How do we do that? By prayer, by study of the Word, by continually seeking God. In other words, through growth. Just as Paul had to learn to be content in all circumstances, we had to learn to discern God's leading. Really, the Scripture is quite clear on this.
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
I basically agree with those statements. Where I disagree is that being led by the Spirit means He communicates to us through voices. I agree that we are to seek, to study the word, to discern. I'm not disagreeing with that. Paul learned to be content in all circumstances. Absolutely. We also. We learn that from the Word. I challenge you or anyone to prove to me that God speaks to you through voices and tells you by those means what to do in your day-to-day activities. Of course it can't be proved because no subjective feelings or voices can be. That's all I'm trying to say. Whenever the scriptures speak about discerning, being led, seeking etc., it means knowing the Word. That's how we can make rational decisions and know what to say. If it's not in the Word or contrary to the Word, reject it. If we knew the Word and lived by it, never contradicted it, we would certainly have no need to be directed by voices or feelings on every move we make.
- Dennis Campbell
-
Well, it's time for me to go. I hear this voice...actually, it's my stomach. It is saying, "feed me!" It's been fun. We'll have to do it again some time. I, too, am skeptical of "God told me," because I have seen that abused far too often. Someone once said the Holy Spirit told him that I was going to participate in his Amway business. Unfortunately, the Spirit forgot to tell me. Bye.
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
Amen, brother. That's what I mean. These people never quit. The Looorrrd told me that a new highway is coming. Blah, blah, blah. 20 years later no highway. It is just absurdity piled higher and deeper on absurdity. It has been fun. I notice your post on Calvinist ordo. Maybe Marty will respond to you some day. That would be a fun debate. I think he is still ticked off with me for some of the things we said back and forth but as far as I know this is your first time on this board. I didn't expect him to respond to me on much of anything, but I'm surprised he hasn't responded to you. But whatever. I let that stuff roll off me like nothing. The longest I can stay mad is about 5 minutes. Of course, dealing with what I do on my job, nothing bothers me much anymore. I've learned to study the Word and discern what the Spirit tells me for these situations.
- David Wyatt
-
WOW!! What a neat discussion. And I missed it! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! OK, now I got that out of my system. It may have already been said, but there may be some special occasions such as the financial situation at Dallas Seminary Dr. Hendricks told about H.A. Ironside praying. God can surely make circumstances work out so as to lead us in crisis points. But I believe in the norm for this age that we have the completed Word, & the Spirit speaks to us through it alone. As to being "led" by feelings, voices, etc., God may very well have done that while the Word was being written, but not now. That which is perfect has come! OK, I'll bow out too. Y'all are a blessing.
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
Hi, David. Thanks for the encouragement. I've always had these thoughts about this subject, and I do believe it was a nice, kind exchange of ideas. It was fun. Please feel free to continue the discussion. When I started this thread, I was hoping that a lot of people would weigh in, since the subject seems to be passionately held, as the discussion showed. I stick by my arguments, and there is no way that in the normal course of events God speaks to us with voices we can hear about our daily, mundane lives. That is what His Word is for.
- David Wyatt
-
Thanks bro. Donald. I remember reading a quote by George Muller regarding this somewhere, possibly on this site, but likely another. Anyway, he agrees with us, or, more correctly I suppose, we agree with him! But as you said, the Word is the number one source of God's truth, or should I say the ONLY source! For anything else to be valid, it must agree with the Word anyway, so why have the extra step? Thanks & God Bless!
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
David, I just got to the point where it almost made me sick to my stomach when I heard people tell me “The Lord told me to buy that new car,” or “The Lord told me to go for this job,” or “move, blah, blah, blah." You want to know God's WILL for your life? Great, me too. And HIS word tells me what it is and what I should do: To wit:
"40For this is My Father's will and His purpose, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in and cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] at the last day." John 6:40-Amplified Bible.
And what is a good way to find out, other than the above verse, what I should do to DISCERN GOD'S WILL?
PSALM 119:9-16--"9How shall a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed and keeping watch [on himself] according to Your word [conforming his life to it].
10With my whole heart have I sought You, inquiring for and of You and yearning for You; Oh, let me not wander or step aside [either in ignorance or willfully] from Your commandments.(A)
11Your word have I laid up in my heart, that I might not sin against You.
12Blessed are You, O Lord; teach me Your statutes.
13With my lips have I declared and recounted all the ordinances of Your mouth.
14I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies as much as in all riches.
15I will meditate on Your precepts and have respect to Your ways [the paths of life marked out by Your law].(B)
16I will delight myself in Your statutes; I will not forget Your word."--AMPLIFIED BIBLE
Doesn't that really say it all. Why do people insist that they should personally hear voices from God? Look at what happened in the Bible when people heard voices. Moses and John were knocked flat on the ground, they were terrified, they didn't walk on Holy Ground. And then you have people telling me they were driving down the street and God told them to go this way instead of that way. Further using extreme examples from the Bible is for our edification only. Those special circumstances were recorded in the Bible for us to be edified by. They were not normative for our everyday lives. Besides all that, for the life of me, why on earth would anyone WANT to hear voices directly from God, when we already have the revealed Word in written form so that we can't misunderstand what His Will is for us? Thanks for responding, brother David. I enjoy your posts and your kind-hearted spirit.
- Trent H
-
I pray for wisdom when I need to make an important decision, then I make the best decision I can based on the information I have. (like selling my home?) I heartily recommend a book called "Decision Making and the Will of God" by Friesen, 'A biblical alternative to the traditional view.' He points out that there is a moral "will" of God clearly spoken of in the Bible, and then outside of that, we can make many decisions and remain within His permissive will.
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
Trent, I agree with you. For our everyday doings, we need to use are reason and make decisions based on our knowledge of the WORD OF GOD. If I take a job at State Farm or at a newspaper, that would be based on my experiences, my judgments, in short, on my reason, qualifications etc. I would not be inclined to go into the bedroom, shut the door and ask God to speak to be in a loud voice and tell me to chose one or the other. As long as work or activities are moral and legal, we would be in the will of God, the way I see it.
- David Wyatt
-
Very level-headed counsel, bros. Trent & Donald. I agree. Especially about God's will being 1st & foremost found in the written & complete Word of God! I'm fixin' to (I'm from NC, we "fix" to do a lot of thangs!) step on my own toes here, so don't worry about yourn! Anyway, it may be that we get lazy & expect God to "speak" to us rather than take the time & discipline necessary to learn the truths of His Word & go by them. Bro. Trent, it is interesting you mentioned selling your house! We're in the process of buying our 1st one right now! We'd appreciate your prayers, gentlemen. Bro. Donald, thank you for your kind words. I have come to appreciate you as well. You as well, bro. Trent!
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
David, you're the man! Thanks.
- Trent H
-
David, I would love to have you call me. Lending is what I do and have done for 12 years. If you are already dealing with a lender, I would be happy to review paperwork for you and make sure its what it should be. Let me know if I can assist in anyway.
- DONALD FAHRENKRUG
-
Now, that offer is so cool. And, with some of the absurd loans out there, it would be nice to deal with a honest, Christian gentleman. Right on!!!
- Trent H
-
Thanks. I have good references, and have not had to advertise in over 6 years... though currently things are very slow.
|
No I will not, No I will not Not go quietly
|
| |
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
|