A forum for a community of people interested in discussing salvation in Jesus Christ by grace through faith
| July 7, 2009 Three Views on the Gospel | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 28 2009, 03:48 PM (261 Views) | |
| lightninboy | Jul 28 2009, 03:48 PM Post #1 |
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Dear Guests, Since there has been much discussion and debate in the free grace community over the content of the gospel of salvation, I've compiled a brief handout explaining three distinct views of "the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20:24) that I trust will bring further clarity to this important topic. Please click on the following link to read: "Three Views on the Gospel of Grace". http://freegracefreespeech.googlepages.com/CounterpointThreeGospels.pdf |
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No I will not, No I will not Not go quietly | |
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| lightninboy | Jul 28 2009, 03:52 PM Post #2 |
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Comments: 1 Sanctification said... Hi JP, Very nice to have you back. I read your document briefly. I think it adds something to the community right away. Having these three different gospels laid side by side is helpful (though really there are more than three). I think your categorizations and labels were not inflammatory; you were attempting to quote others and repeat back what they are saying which is an ethic handed down recently from Dr. R. It definitely shows what you believe the other perspectives to be; "partial," "groundless," and such, but I expect you to make plain what you believe as you lay forth this encapsulation on the FG gospels. Thanks! Michele July 8, 2009 6:47 PM 2 Looker4522 said... To allow more people to read your document, it might be helpful to convert your document to the more standard *.doc format rather than the *.docx format. I don't have the new Office and I can't open the document with my older Word. July 9, 2009 4:43 PM 3 Jonathan said... Hi Sanctification, Always good to hear from you! I'm glad that you found my chart helpful. I agree that there are more than three free grace gospels, but I think that the others can in some sense fit into one of the three categories I've listed. For example, if I remember correctly Larry Moyer likes to evangelize by saying: "Christ died for our sins and rose again." In light of 1 Corinthians 15:12 and other passages, I completely agree with Dr. Moyer. Christ's burial and resurrection appearances are implied in such a statement, not denied. This becomes clear in light of Larry's online article titled "What is the Gospel?", as well as the apostle Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11, particularly his fourfold repetition of the hoti content clause in 1 Corinthians 15:3b-5 (also note the three kai coordinating conjunctions): "that Christ died...and that He was buried...and that He was raised...and that He appeared". All this to say that I see Dr. Moyer's position on the gospel as fitting most closely into "The Glorious Gospel" category. I believe most free grace views on the gospel can fit into one of the three categories listed in my chart. Anyway, it's a good point of discussion! JP July 9, 2009 6:19 PM 4 Jonathan Perreault said... Hi Looker, I just converted my document to the *.doc format (Microsoft Office Word 1997-2003, I believe) so you and others can have access to it. I hope you find it helpful. Thanks! JP July 9, 2009 6:24 PM 5 Liam Moran said... JP, Some people from the "groundless gospel" camp might accuse you of misrepresenting their position. How would you respond to this? Secondly, there are numerous verses in the NT that do not mention the burial. For example, Paul does not mention the burial in 2 Cor. 5:15. How might you respond to this? July 11, 2009 1:33 PM 6 Jonathan Perreault said... Hi Liam, In answer to your first question, I would ask those from the groundless gospel camp for an example of how I have misrepresented their position. In response to your second question I would say that there are numerous verses in the NT which do not mention Christ's resurrection on the third day. But this doesn't mean we should remove Christ's resurrection on the third day from the gospel of salvation. The same logic applies in regards to Christ's burial. It is an argument from silence and logical fallacy to conclude that just because Christ's burial is not mentioned a certain number of times in the NT (who comes up with the authoritative number anyway?!), it should therefore be omitted from the gospel of salvation (1 Cor. 15:4). Such reasoning is "arbitrary dogmatism" and completely subjective (cf. Bob Wilkin, A REVIEW OF J.B. HIXSON'S GETTING THE GOSPEL WRONG: THE EVANGELICAL CRISIS NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT, 22). Such reasoning also fails to explain the passages of Scripture which specifically include Christ's burial in the gospel (cf. Isa. 53:9; Matt. 12:38-41; Jn. 19:38-42; Acts 13:29; 1 Cor. 15:4, etc.). Notice that although 2 Cor. 5:15 and other passages contain details of Paul's gospel, these passages are not the declaration of Paul's gospel. In other words, various facts of Paul's gospel can be found sprinkled all throughout the NT, but the actual formalization of Paul's gospel is set forth in 1 Cor. 15:1ff. Always good to hear from you! JP July 13, 2009 4:41 PM 7 lightninboy said... Hi, Jonathan, I got a thrill seeing that a mover and a shaker like you is back in the blogging business. I'm afraid you're in a no-win situation here and you'll get the GES people mad at you and the Duluthian people mad at you. July 28, 2009 3:57 PM 8 Jonathan Perreault said... Hi Von, Always good to hear from you. I was really encouraged by your comment - thanks! Quoting Mark Twain: "I can live two months on a good compliment." I agree with you about feeling tension from both the Grace Evangelical Society (GES) and the Duluth Bible Church (DBC), but as the apostle Paul said: "For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ" (Gal. 1:10). There will always been some who seek to change the glorious gospel of Christ. The apostle Paul warns of those who do not hold firmly to the gospel tradition (1 Cor. 11:1-2; 15:1-2; 2 Thess. 2:14-15). In spite of these new and novel teachings, the glorious gospel will endure forever. The apostle Peter writes: "'All flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, and its flower falls away, but the word of the LORD endures forever.' Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you" (1 Pet. 1:24, NKJV). I am content to preach the word of the gospel, and let the chips fall where they may. July 29, 2009 4:43 PM Edited by lightninboy, Jul 29 2009, 05:28 PM.
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9:38 AM Jul 11