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| ok go; let's talk about morals | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 29 2008, 02:28 AM (449 Views) | |
| d0nk3y | Apr 29 2008, 02:28 AM Post #1 |
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current status: lurking more
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tell me about your morals; ![]() do they exist? must they exist? where do they come from? guess what i think.
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| Goda | Apr 29 2008, 02:30 AM Post #2 |
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Topic Starter
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I guess you think the dont exist... They exist, and without them, human society would fail. Name a few things that people have morals against, and I will do my best to tell the downsides of said things. Edited by Goda, Apr 29 2008, 02:31 AM.
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| phanerothyme | Apr 29 2008, 03:05 AM Post #3 |
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Morals serve culture. Culture is not your friend. Culture exists for the convenience of institutions, not for your convenience. |
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| calvinist | Apr 29 2008, 03:24 AM Post #4 |
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Morality changes with each person. What one person may believe to be right, another may believe it to be wrong. As society, we make up laws that govern our people to ensure production. If one man believes that murder is okay morally, to himself, he is right, but because we as society, to ensure production, order and safety to the people we love and care about, say that murder is wrong. Society is many, and he is just one man. Because he has a different point of view as society he has three options: attempt to change societies thinking, which isn't very likely, and he shouldn't expect it to be easy, he can not change his mind and kill anyway and except the punishment of society here on Earth, or he can adopt the moral standards of modern living. More often then not, the man decides the latter of the three. Morality is learned from the time you are born to the time you die. From the time we leave our mother's wombs, we are taking in our surroundings and by what we learn from how we were raised. What we believe to be morally correct depends on our culture, background, and some personal belief by what we pick up. We are in this world for one reason only: to survive. We have evolved as humans and have learned what to and what not to do in certain situations. Production. If we don't produce, and the world is thrown into chaos, we don't survive. |
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| d0nk3y | Apr 29 2008, 03:31 AM Post #5 |
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current status: lurking more
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They don't exist, because "evolution is cleverer than you," and our virtually blind striving towards the survival of our species has fostered the idea that there are things we must or must not do. Name a few things people have morals for or against and I will do my best to explain their logical "benefits", but simply because we are here does not mean we are here for a reason, or fruther, that we are here for a "good" reason. incest is bad because it tends to bring out the recessive genes and produce physical or mental defects.. it "pollutes" the gene pool... homosexuality is bad because, in case you haven't noticed, it's difficult to procreate, (not to mention social factors which homophobes represent)... killing is bad because (also among other factors) the dead cannot reproduce... I would argue that the popular view of morals stretches only from that which has been found to best continue the cycle of 'reproduce-survive-reproduce-survive'. You seem to imply that morals are intrinsic. Did morals exist in the 12 billion years before the formation of our planet? Killing was bad even when there was no one to kill? What effect, besides some sort of eternal punishment/paradise, does having morals have in the "grand" scheme of thing? Assuming the absence, yet the existence of a "paradise", can ending the life of a morally-superior person be a bad thing for them? Why do we have the ability to go against morals? And what is so grand about us that for anything to be considered "moral" it necessitates out existence? I would argue an entirely different philosophy which I hope to address following a response.
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| calvinist | Apr 29 2008, 03:43 AM Post #6 |
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i have already stated why we have morals. We can't go around killing everyone. We must produce. If there is no one to produce, we don't survive. If killing is okay, would everyone kill. Probably not. But there would be no order, no law, no reason. We need those three in order to survive. That's it. Morals. Produce. Survive. Reproduce. that is the cycle. No. There were no morals 12 billion years before Earth was created. Why would there be? Who would create them? Why would they create them? If, of course, we are talking about Earth. Not the rest of the universe. If there were life on other planets, what would keep them from killing, pillaging, raping their home. Those creatures, if there are any, most likely have no sense of God, and have never read the Bible. Yet they are as knowledge full or more, or so i hope, than what we are. Yet they are able to survive and flourish. We do not need a simple Book to tell us our morals, what we can and cannot do, and how we are to survive. We already know these things, we've proven this with the advancement of man. WE NEED ORDER.
Edited by calvinist, Apr 29 2008, 03:44 AM.
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| d0nk3y | Apr 29 2008, 03:43 AM Post #7 |
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current status: lurking more
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I had not refreshed the page but I'd like to add slightly to the above two comments; I essentially agree with both of you, and with my interpretations you coincide with my points; Though you have not specifically denounced the existence of morals, would I be incorrect to assume neither of you believe in transcendent morals? Is it safe to say, in our opinions, that there are no "divine" morals? It's kind of like saying atheists are theists because the word "god" is in their vernacular, and if "god" didn't exist, neither would the word. Or further, that dog food is evil because it tastes "bad" (it does). I should edit the OP of this topic to discuss transcendent morals, because it is much more difficult to doubt that the majority of our society consider things immoral or moral. |
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| Goda | Apr 30 2008, 02:25 AM Post #8 |
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Topic Starter
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so this basically comes down to a discussion of deity eh? well before that starts, i'd just like to say, you're all wasting your brainpower, on this moral thing...there is no need for them to be questioned in such a pointless way, it does you, nor the species, any good. oh and, mr no culture, i'd like to see where you would be without culture or institutions. Edited by Goda, Apr 30 2008, 02:27 AM.
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| calvinist | Apr 30 2008, 03:07 AM Post #9 |
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what?? whos mr anti culture?? |
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| d0nk3y | Apr 30 2008, 03:11 AM Post #10 |
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current status: lurking more
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If the only response you can conjure is that a deity created morals because he loves and cares about us, and we have to follow them or he will stop loving and caring about us, and we essentially cannot question him/them, then yes, it comes down to a discussion of deity. I would say that you are over-thinking to assume so much. Occam's razor (though anyone can write) encourages us to take the most simple explanation when multiple are supported. What question could be of more importance than the existence of something as monumental as morals? What could be more central to philosophy than what really exists and how we should behave? You are correct, though, that it is all pointless ![]() Regarding "mr no culture", he had not expressed criticism, let alone a revulsion of culture; just stated that it was necessary for our progress so far. He also had no sway in the cosmological lead-up to the present, and philosophy is rarely concerned with "what-if" questions. And finally, the only real wasted (non-potential) brainpower would arise if the responses were not read adequately... Edited by d0nk3y, Apr 30 2008, 03:12 AM.
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8:55 AM Jul 11