| Balkan State | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 11 2014, 11:44 AM (205 Views) | |
| Simon Darkshade | Jul 11 2014, 11:44 AM Post #1 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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With a point of departure of 1800, create an independent state spanning Ottoman Rumelia (Greece, Albania, Macedonia, Thrace, Bulgaria, Serbia, Montenegro and Bosnia). Bonus points if it includes Constantinople. |
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| Petar | Jul 11 2014, 02:48 PM Post #2 |
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The General
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I'll think about it a bit, but I don't think it can be done, at least not if you want a stable country which could last for a while. |
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| Basil Fawlty | Jul 11 2014, 05:04 PM Post #3 |
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Post Tenebras Lux
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Yeah Balkan State (singular) is kind of an oxymoron. |
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| Simon Darkshade | Jul 11 2014, 05:44 PM Post #4 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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That is why it is a fun challenge! The problem is that the Greeks and the Slavs are a bit different. A Serbo-Bulgarian Union isn't completely beyond the pale. |
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| Matthew | Jul 11 2014, 06:52 PM Post #5 |
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Well, to start you'd need to either have it be a pal of Austria or have the latter not be able to do anything about it. Perhaps have it as a Napoleonic structure that decides to kind of go neutral, like the fellow he put in Sweden? |
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| Jacapo | Jul 11 2014, 07:07 PM Post #6 |
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I may be wrong, but I don't think the Swedish situation was quite Napoleon's idea. |
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| Matthew | Jul 11 2014, 11:10 PM Post #7 |
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Well, that might work even better. Whatever the case, the idea would be broadly to give both sides a reason not to simply take it over by force, and if it seems that its possible to secure this state diplomatically they might all go that route as it would save diverting men and resources. By Vienna itd have to be legitimate enough to survive, though, and/or find a great power backer ready to negotiate (and probably sacrifice) for its survival. |
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| Jacapo | Jul 11 2014, 11:30 PM Post #8 |
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As terrible as it might sound, could it be possible to have had some sort of ethnic cleansing of sorts happen in the area under ottoman rule that might make it a bit more tenable for one power to later secede from the empire and then unite to rule over the area? I just have a hard time thinking of a scenario where one power can rule over so many different groups with any long term success.
Edited by Jacapo, Jul 11 2014, 11:31 PM.
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| Petar | Jul 12 2014, 10:54 AM Post #9 |
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The General
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Ironically enough, yesterday was 19 years since Srebrenica. Ethnic cleansing under the Ottomans could happen, but I don't think that it could happen on such a grand scale. On such a scale, it would be nothing short of genocide (depending on the methods, I suppose, but you get my point). A Balkan state would probably have underlying unifying factors such as religion, relatively similar cultures, history of unity under Ottoman suzerainty, economic interdependence etc. However, those same factors were well present in Austria-Hungary too - and yet it fell didn't last long. To ensure the survival of the state, you'd have to go into ASBs by changing the mentality of the local people and slowing down the growth of nationalism. Truth be told, I don't think it could be done. An alliance of states - definitely. A confederation - with some effort, quite possible. A single state which could have some long-term viability? Not quite. |
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| Simon Darkshade | Jul 12 2014, 02:11 PM Post #10 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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I agree that a confederation or multi-national Empire is the best that can be hoped for. It would take a pivotal event, a long lived and able leader along the lines of a Balkan Napoleon, strong outside friends among the powers and the right luck on quite a few subsequent occasions. |
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8:39 AM Jul 11