| Early Italian Unification | |
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| Topic Started: May 9 2014, 11:43 AM (221 Views) | |
| Simon Darkshade | May 9 2014, 11:43 AM Post #1 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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What is the earliest point Italy can unify? Bonus points if it can make Italy into a genuine front rank power. |
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| Doctor_Strangelove | May 9 2014, 09:25 PM Post #2 |
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Lord of the Seven Kingdoms
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Edited by Doctor_Strangelove, Nov 11 2016, 09:36 AM.
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| Vonar Roberts | May 10 2014, 01:42 AM Post #3 |
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No collapse of the Roman Empire? certainly a possibility. The long term problem with Rome is that the Romans will keep with them the majority of the baggage of the old Roman Empire, and they will have a Middle Kingdom complex and will be hated by everyone who was ever occupied by the Romans. The question is can Rome industrialize fast enough to compete with the Germans and British while expending the resources necessary to occupy Yugoslavia, Greece, and probably Egypt as well as Libya as well. |
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| Simon Darkshade | May 10 2014, 07:12 AM Post #4 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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Whilst Rome is the obvious answer and I deliberately didn't put a required time period into play, it would be interesting if anything could be done around the time of the emergence of nation states such as England, France or Sweden in the Middle Ages. |
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| Petar | May 10 2014, 02:06 PM Post #5 |
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The General
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Perhaps something could've been done by Naples under the House of Anjou in the 14th century, if they had had sufficient support from the Pope and the Hungarian kings. |
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| Basil Fawlty | May 10 2014, 02:28 PM Post #6 |
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Post Tenebras Lux
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Spain taking most of the Italian peninsula and eventually setting up a different kingdom may do the trick. |
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| Jacapo | May 10 2014, 02:45 PM Post #7 |
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I dont think traditional Rome is an option however an independent and united rome could have eventually resulted from the Byzantine reconquest of the peninsula |
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| John | May 10 2014, 03:35 PM Post #8 |
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I think that barring the plague, this is certainly one of the opportunities. I think GO has another possibility, though I think you'd have to see some serious external support for quite some time. I definitely think that the best chance has to come sometime in the 15th Century or earlier. As you get further and further down the line, Italy is constantly being stabbed in the ribs or pulled apart by every major power in the region, on a regular basis. It becomes a pin cushion. It is almost like the gravitational pull of Jupiter that wouldn't allow for the formation of the missing 9th (or 10th if you are pro-Pluto) planet in our solar system, except in this case you have multiple Jupiters pulling it apart. Italy is/was Phaeton. Had Italy united early, it is very likely that another familiar power might not have. If Italy can unite and become any sort of power prior to the middle of the 15th Century, I think Austria suffers and never becomes the dominant Germanic power early on. France, too, may have a setback or two, but I don't think it alters the basic trajectory toward a great power. The Ottomans may benefit, initially, from a weaker or distracted Austria, but long-term, I think they follow the same general historical trajectory. It would interesting to see what would happen in Germany without a stronger Austria. |
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| Simon Darkshade | May 10 2014, 03:47 PM Post #9 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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Once Austria gets Bohemia and Hungary, it is well set up as the largest and most powerful German state. Not having a toe in Italy may not necessarily change its links with Spain. However, the butterflies from a Kingdom of Italy emerging in say, 1300-1450, are so great that the development of Europe would be very different to say the least. An interesting notion would be greater success for Stupor Mundi... |
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8:39 AM Jul 11