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Help Me Choose My New Timeline
Topic Started: Feb 5 2014, 05:59 AM (358 Views)
Delta Force

I posted this on Alternate History as well (link here), but I thought it would be worth posting here as well for input.

I've decided to do a new timeline. I'm not abandoning The Need for Speed, it's just that I've decided that it would be better to rein the focus back in as the scope of the project has become too large. Much of the material and research can be used in more fleshed out timelines.

Which of these scenarios are interesting? You can vote for multiple timelines, so feel free to pick any you find interesting.

Before 1900:
  • Destiny Denied: The Confederacy wins its independence from the United States (I'm not sure it's worth going into how, it's more of an exploration of a setting), and the two nations go their own way. Interesting cultural, political, and economic developments occur. It's not a Confederate Empire timeline, not an America gets bullied timeline, it's just different.
  • Hiram Maxim's Flying Machine: The subject of my first thread on this site, this timeline involves Maxim perfecting his airplane, which goes on to be used in exploration, warfare, and other applications.

After 1900:
  • While America Slept: America remains neutral in World War I. The Central Powers probably end up winning on the continent, but with a war so devastating no one really "wins." The final peace agreement ends with no real victors, and something of a worse post-war cultural crisis since so many died for nothing, not even the small solace of victory. Potentially interesting implications for anything like a World War II.
  • Washington's Cherry Blossoms/Dread Not: There are two potential approaches to this, both of which explore an escalating arms race. The first one (Washington's Cherry Blossoms) explores a naval arms race after the Washington Naval Conference fails, and is a play on the term "Washington's cherry trees" that was used to refer to the ships "axed" by the Washington Naval Treaty. The other approach (Dread Not) explores a naval arms race that could have occurred if World War I had never happened in the first place. There might be some naval combat throughout, especially if a world war occurs later on, or it might just explore what might have been.
  • Merely Another Weapon: With the DPRK on the verge of breaking through the Pusan Perimeter and occupying all of Korea, President Truman gives authorization for the use of nuclear weapons in a tactical role. With the taboo irrecoverably broken, nuclear weapons become merely another weapon in the arsenals of the world.
  • The Need for Speed: A more focused version of the timeline I have been working on, focusing on commercial aviation from the 1950s to the present. With no energy crisis, the supersonic transports enter widespread airline service. By the late 1980s, the airline industry faces criticism and lawsuits over its noise pollution, energy consumption (as petroleum supplies become increasingly strained), and atmospheric damage. I've said that The Need for Speed is somewhat atompunk and jetpunk, this is more of the jetpunk side of things.
  • Peace is Our Profession: A timeline focusing more on the military and technological background of my current timeline. After Eisenhower's resignation following his 1955 heart attack, Nixon becomes president of the United States. The SAGE air defense system is rejected in favor of further development of nuclear and conventional forces. Khrushchev forms a triumvirate with Bulganin and Zhukov and begins executing a reform program, leading to somewhat improved relations with the West and an earlier Sino-Soviet Split. Tensions thus move towards Asia and the PRC, including an attack on the PRC nuclear program in the early 1960s. Computer development is slowed relative to our timeline, while nuclear and aerospace technologies are significantly improved. The primary focus will be on strategic attack and defense forces such as America's Strategic Air Command and Aerospace Defense Command, the United Kingdom's RAF Bomber Command and RAF Fighter Command, France's Force de Frappe/Force de Dissuasion, and the Soviet Union's Long Range Aviation and Air Defense Forces. Manned military space forces may also be a point of focus. I've said that The Need for Speed is somewhat atompunk and jetpunk, this is more of the atompunk side of things.
  • Nothing Can Stop the Army Air Corps: The United States Army maintains or acquires close air support capabilities from the United States Air Force. Instead of relying on helicopters and rotary aircraft, the Army acquires its own fixed wing assets for tactical airlift and fire support, developing a more mobile force doctrine along the way. This exists in the same universe as Peace is Our Profession and covers the same events, but focuses more on ground forces. It doesn't focus solely on the United States Army, but the Army and the Army Air Corps are a major point of focus.
  • Under a Red Sky: The Soviets beat America to the Moon, forcing an even more expensive, dramatic, and dangerous space race. Rather than receiving the axe, Congress breathes a sigh of relief at the success of the NERVA program and orders the development of NASA's Saturn successor - the Nova.
  • The Grand Tour: The United States and Soviet Union undergo a slower space race, developing more practical systems that allow for a continuous manned presence in space. Conventional rockets and separates for cargo and personnel are used by NASA and the USAF instead of the cargo/passenger combination Space Shuttle. The Planetary Grand Tour and other unmanned projects go ahead.
  • Hatefulness: On February 20, 1971, the Emergency Broadcast System was accidentally activated with the codeword "hatefulness". For forty minutes, NORAD tried to retract the activation, but it was unable to find the proper code. Given tensions at the time, and nuclear doctrine, it's possible that the Soviets may have interpreted the activation as an attempt to evacuate the American public to safety prior to a nuclear attack. This timeline would explore how the Great War of 1971 started - by hatefulness.
  • Helen of Troy: Built in the shadow of the Cascade Mountains, Trojan Nuclear Power Plant was the world's most powerful nuclear reactor upon its completion in 1976. While some hailed it as the future of energy in the Pacific Northwest, the region's anti-nuclear movement warned of its dangers. In the summer of 1980, the protestors' worst nightmare came true. I'm not sure if the disaster will entail fallout from the Mount St. Helens eruption falling into Oregon or a wider Cascadia Earthquake, but Trojan will experience a meltdown of the worst kind.
  • A New Mythology: On its first mission, the Space Shuttle Columbia is destroyed, with astronauts Young and Crippen narrowly escaping. Weeks later, a USAF Titan IIID suffers a catastrophic failure shortly after launch, raining toxic propellent and KH-11 components down on its launch facility. In the aftermath of these twin disasters, President Reagan renews America's commitment to space exploration. Congress orders the development of new, safer launch systems for space exploration, taking full advantage of techniques and technologies developed since the Space Shuttle and Titan III programs were conceived in the mid-1960s.
  • The Lion's Roar: By the mid-1980s, the Iranian Empire has one of the most powerful militaries and economies in the world (see this thread for specific information). As a diplomatic rift grows between the United States, the Shah (not necessarily a surviving Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, although it is an option) begins to pursue a more independent foreign policy as tensions between Iran and its neighbors begin to rise. As the Soviet Empire falls, a new empire is rising in the Middle East.
  • Dialectic Synthesis: The 1987 stock market crash leads to a severe economic crisis, further aggravated by automation and computerization. The Eastern bloc and Soviet Union staggers on for a few more years, finally collapsing in the mid to late 1990s. Rather than the end of history, the 1990s become one of the most chaotic decades since the 1960s, even the 1930s. It's similar to the current economic crisis, but with a rather unique setting.
  • The Day That Never Ends: 1995 saw several terrorist attempts and acts, including the Bojinka Plot, the Aum Shinrikyo attacks, the Oklahoma City bombing, and the Budyonnovsk hospital hostage crisis. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, some of the world's most powerful weapons were loose. Not just nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, but MANPADs, assault rifles, and other small arms. What if the war on terrorism had started even earlier, with more devastating consequences?
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Simon Darkshade
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
I quite enjoy Cherry Trees.
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Basil Fawlty
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Post Tenebras Lux
Quote:
 
[*]Destiny Denied: The Confederacy wins its independence from the United States (I'm not sure it's worth going into how, it's more of an exploration of a setting), and the two nations go their own way. Interesting cultural, political, and economic developments occur. It's not a Confederate Empire timeline, not an America gets bullied timeline, it's just different.


Different from the usual CSA-victory timelines, but probably similar enough not to attract as much attention as some of the other ideas. The CSA winning is a bit of a cliche.


Quote:
 
[*]While America Slept: America remains neutral in World War I. The Central Powers probably end up winning on the continent, but with a war so devastating no one really "wins." The final peace agreement ends with no real victors, and something of a worse post-war cultural crisis since so many died for nothing, not even the small solace of victory. Potentially interesting implications for anything like a World War II.


A very interesting idea. What would be the PoD? It'd be tough to see the USA sitting out as a German victory becomes more likely, especially if they go down the path of unrestricted sub warfare as in @. Perhaps a different president elected in 1912/16 (William Jennings Bryan?) who plays carefully to isolationist sentiments.


Quote:
 
[*]Washington's Cherry Blossoms/Dread Not: There are two potential approaches to this, both of which explore an escalating arms race. The first one (Washington's Cherry Blossoms) explores a naval arms race after the Washington Naval Conference fails, and is a play on the term "Washington's cherry trees" that was used to refer to the ships "axed" by the Washington Naval Treaty. The other approach (Dread Not) explores a naval arms race that could have occurred if World War I had never happened in the first place. There might be some naval combat throughout, especially if a world war occurs later on, or it might just explore what might have been.


Also an interesting combination, with the latter notion potentially more appealing to this crowd, if a bit harder to manage. With no world war, a lot of butterflies come into play.


Quote:
 
[*]Merely Another Weapon: With the DPRK on the verge of breaking through the Pusan Perimeter and occupying all of Korea, President Truman gives authorization for the use of nuclear weapons in a tactical role. With the taboo irrecoverably broken, nuclear weapons become merely another weapon in the arsenals of the world.


I know we have talked about this one before, so it might be fun to explore the effects in more detail.


Quote:
 
[*]Under a Red Sky: The Soviets beat America to the Moon, forcing an even more expensive, dramatic, and dangerous space race. Rather than receiving the axe, Congress breathes a sigh of relief at the success of the NERVA program and orders the development of NASA's Saturn successor - the Nova.
[*]The Grand Tour: The United States and Soviet Union undergo a slower space race, developing more practical systems that allow for a continuous manned presence in space. Conventional rockets and separates for cargo and personnel are used by NASA and the USAF instead of the cargo/passenger combination Space Shuttle. The Planetary Grand Tour and other unmanned projects go ahead.


It would allow some fascinating explorations of different vehicle designs and missions, but ultimately a major problem with all advanced space timelines is that they inevitably founder on technical realism. Anything beyond fairly conservative scenarios (like the Soviets landing on the Moon, establishing a limited base, or a different lead-up to Skylab and other space stations) requires extensive technical knowledge beyond what merely looks good on paper. Even then, there is no way to know what is practical and what isn't. It's one of those things that must be experimented with in reality.


Quote:
 
[*]Hatefulness: On February 20, 1971, the Emergency Broadcast System was accidentally activated with the codeword "hatefulness". For forty minutes, NORAD tried to retract the activation, but it was unable to find the proper code. Given tensions at the time, and nuclear doctrine, it's possible that the Soviets may have interpreted the activation as an attempt to evacuate the American public to safety prior to a nuclear attack. This timeline would explore how the Great War of 1971 started - by hatefulness.


Scene: "The Great Hereafter"
Time: 20 years after WWIII

Two angels are sitting together on a cloud. One turns to the other:

"You know that day about 20 years ago when 4,000,000,000 people all came up on the same day? Since then, not a soul..."


Quote:
 
[*]Dialectic Synthesis: The 1987 stock market crash leads to a severe economic crisis, further aggravated by automation and computerization. The Eastern bloc and Soviet Union staggers on for a few more years, finally collapsing in the mid to late 1990s. Rather than the end of history, the 1990s become one of the most chaotic decades since the 1960s, even the 1930s. It's similar to the current economic crisis, but with a rather unique setting.


Reagan is rejected as the new Hoover, Bush fails to win in 1988, and some Democratic president a lot further to the left than Bill Clinton would probably be elected in 1988/92. Technological development (particularly consumer electronics & the internet) might be retarded by a few years by the absence of private capital and startups. An interesting, if fairly bleak scenario.


Quote:
 
[*]The Day That Never Ends: 1995 saw several terrorist attempts and acts, including the Bojinka Plot, the Aum Shinrikyo attacks, the Oklahoma City bombing, and the Budyonnovsk hospital hostage crisis. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, some of the world's most powerful weapons were loose. Not just nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, but MANPADs, assault rifles, and other small arms. What if the war on terrorism had started even earlier, with more devastating consequences?


Would have some interesting butterflies, especially if it occurs in conjunction with the above crisis.
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Delta Force

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I quite enjoy Cherry Trees.

Which version?

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
[*]While America Slept: America remains neutral in World War I. The Central Powers probably end up winning on the continent, but with a war so devastating no one really "wins." The final peace agreement ends with no real victors, and something of a worse post-war cultural crisis since so many died for nothing, not even the small solace of victory. Potentially interesting implications for anything like a World War II.


A very interesting idea. What would be the PoD? It'd be tough to see the USA sitting out as a German victory becomes more likely, especially if they go down the path of unrestricted sub warfare as in @. Perhaps a different president elected in 1912/16 (William Jennings Bryan?) who plays carefully to isolationist sentiments.

The PoD would almost certainly have to be another president. Wilson is well, Wilsonian.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
[*]Washington's Cherry Blossoms/Dread Not: There are two potential approaches to this, both of which explore an escalating arms race. The first one (Washington's Cherry Blossoms) explores a naval arms race after the Washington Naval Conference fails, and is a play on the term "Washington's cherry trees" that was used to refer to the ships "axed" by the Washington Naval Treaty. The other approach (Dread Not) explores a naval arms race that could have occurred if World War I had never happened in the first place. There might be some naval combat throughout, especially if a world war occurs later on, or it might just explore what might have been.


Also an interesting combination, with the latter notion potentially more appealing to this crowd, if a bit harder to manage. With no world war, a lot of butterflies come into play.

I was thinking that it could be something of a collaborative timeline. It would be easier to do a collaboration with than most timelines, as portions of it would be like a roleplay. Because of the collaboration, I could participate in Cherry Blossoms/Dread Not and do another timeline as well.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
[*]Merely Another Weapon: With the DPRK on the verge of breaking through the Pusan Perimeter and occupying all of Korea, President Truman gives authorization for the use of nuclear weapons in a tactical role. With the taboo irrecoverably broken, nuclear weapons become merely another weapon in the arsenals of the world.


I know we have talked about this one before, so it might be fun to explore the effects in more detail.

The implications are quite interesting. I've read some estimates written before the NNPT on how dozens of states would have nuclear weapons by 2000. Combined with the lack of a nuclear taboo, nuclear peace theory might never occur to anyone.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
[*]Under a Red Sky: The Soviets beat America to the Moon, forcing an even more expensive, dramatic, and dangerous space race. Rather than receiving the axe, Congress breathes a sigh of relief at the success of the NERVA program and orders the development of NASA's Saturn successor - the Nova.
[*]The Grand Tour: The United States and Soviet Union undergo a slower space race, developing more practical systems that allow for a continuous manned presence in space. Conventional rockets and separates for cargo and personnel are used by NASA and the USAF instead of the cargo/passenger combination Space Shuttle. The Planetary Grand Tour and other unmanned projects go ahead.


It would allow some fascinating explorations of different vehicle designs and missions, but ultimately a major problem with all advanced space timelines is that they inevitably founder on technical realism. Anything beyond fairly conservative scenarios (like the Soviets landing on the Moon, establishing a limited base, or a different lead-up to Skylab and other space stations) requires extensive technical knowledge beyond what merely looks good on paper. Even then, there is no way to know what is practical and what isn't. It's one of those things that must be experimented with in reality.

That's quite true. You're stuck using a lot more real life developments than most other settings. Rocket science is much more difficult than aeronautics, for example.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
[*]Hatefulness: On February 20, 1971, the Emergency Broadcast System was accidentally activated with the codeword "hatefulness". For forty minutes, NORAD tried to retract the activation, but it was unable to find the proper code. Given tensions at the time, and nuclear doctrine, it's possible that the Soviets may have interpreted the activation as an attempt to evacuate the American public to safety prior to a nuclear attack. This timeline would explore how the Great War of 1971 started - by hatefulness.


Scene: "The Great Hereafter"
Time: 20 years after WWIII

Two angels are sitting together on a cloud. One turns to the other:

"You know that day about 20 years ago when 4,000,000,000 people all came up on the same day? Since then, not a soul..."

Quite true. There have been plenty of nuclear war timelines on Alternate History as well, not much point changing the setting of them. Unless it's Cuba or earlier, its basically mutual destruction.

Quote:
 
Quote:
 
[*]Dialectic Synthesis: The 1987 stock market crash leads to a severe economic crisis, further aggravated by automation and computerization. The Eastern bloc and Soviet Union staggers on for a few more years, finally collapsing in the mid to late 1990s. Rather than the end of history, the 1990s become one of the most chaotic decades since the 1960s, even the 1930s. It's similar to the current economic crisis, but with a rather unique setting.


Reagan is rejected as the new Hoover, Bush fails to win in 1988, and some Democratic president a lot further to the left than Bill Clinton would probably be elected in 1988/92. Technological development (particularly consumer electronics & the internet) might be retarded by a few years by the absence of private capital and startups. An interesting, if fairly bleak scenario.


Quote:
 
[*]The Day That Never Ends: 1995 saw several terrorist attempts and acts, including the Bojinka Plot, the Aum Shinrikyo attacks, the Oklahoma City bombing, and the Budyonnovsk hospital hostage crisis. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, some of the world's most powerful weapons were loose. Not just nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, but MANPADs, assault rifles, and other small arms. What if the war on terrorism had started even earlier, with more devastating consequences?


Would have some interesting butterflies, especially if it occurs in conjunction with the above crisis.

I hadn't thought of combing them before now, but that is a very interesting idea.
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Simon Darkshade
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
A proper look at a Cherry Trees situation after a failed Washington would probably be easier to find verifiable information for, but the 'No WW1' idea would see some very interesting battleship development.
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Delta Force

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A proper look at a Cherry Trees situation after a failed Washington would probably be easier to find verifiable information for, but the 'No WW1' idea would see some very interesting battleship development.

You mean the pre-Jutland armor schemes (such as very weak deck armor) and a strategy based around closer engagement ranges and higher accuracy than was found to occur?
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John
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Try US Civil War in 1832.
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Doctor_Strangelove
Lord of the Seven Kingdoms
.
Edited by Doctor_Strangelove, Nov 11 2016, 09:17 AM.
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Matthew
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"Dread Not" should be "Dread Nought" though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fisher,_1st_Baron_Fisher#First_Sea_Lord_.281904.E2.80.931910.29
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Delta Force

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The space one would be quite interesting.

Which one? There are actually three of them.

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I didn't want to make it Dreadnought (there's already a book with that title). Lord Fisher's motto should do nicely.
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Matthew
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Delta Force
Feb 6 2014, 02:58 AM
Lord Fisher's motto should do nicely.
My point exactly. ;)
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Simon Darkshade
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
Strategy would eventually change with larger guns and improved rangefinders. The lessons of Jutland regarding combat range, immunity zones and decks would take longer to develop without a battle.
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Delta Force

I'm probably going to do one of the other timeline ideas as an independent project, but would anyone be interested in doing Washington's Cherry Blossoms or Fear God and Dread Nought as a collaboration? I suppose the first question is which version of the scenario we wish to do. I think that Fear God and Dread Nought could be interesting, as it opens up certain cultural possibilities in addition to naval ones.
Edited by Delta Force, Feb 6 2014, 09:28 AM.
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Doctor_Strangelove
Lord of the Seven Kingdoms
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Edited by Doctor_Strangelove, Nov 11 2016, 09:17 AM.
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