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The Great War
Topic Started: Jan 6 2014, 12:34 AM (1,396 Views)
John
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That is extremely unlikely. What is more likely is that there is some kind of negotiated peace wherein Germany does not lose the war.
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Vonar Roberts
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The capture of Paris effectively means the end of the French logistical system, and the end of the war - even if it takes some time for French leaders to realize it. In the 1900's pretty much all railroads run through Paris.

presumably with a centralized railroad structure Paris has a similar importance in population and industrialization to the French nation

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Edited by Vonar Roberts, Jun 14 2014, 09:44 PM.
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Jacapo
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John
Jun 14 2014, 09:25 PM
That is extremely unlikely. What is more likely is that there is some kind of negotiated peace wherein Germany does not lose the war.
That's a huge overestimation of the French and British abilities at the time. The British would no doubt be scrambling to get their small amount of troops off the continent while the French would be reeling from many losses at the Belgian border, the Marne, and Paris itself.
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John
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It is not that at all. I just do not see Germany going through the trouble of occupying the whole country. With Russia still in the war, I think that even given a best-case scenario for Germany at the time, they'd arrange some kind of peace with France on generous terms that the French would likely accept and move on to focus their full attention on Russia.
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Vonar Roberts
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I doubt the Germans would occupy the entire country. Chances are the Germans would ask for a province or two, and probably French Morocco.
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John
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Why French Morocco? What real value would it have? Why not something adjoining German West Africa?

This is not sarcasm. I seriously want to know if there is some reason other than mere prestige.
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Vonar Roberts
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John
Jun 14 2014, 10:44 PM
Why French Morocco? What real value would it have? Why not something adjoining German West Africa?

This is not sarcasm. I seriously want to know if there is some reason other than mere prestige.
French Morocco makes sense as the Kaiser had originally started a diplomatic crisis over it in 1911. Admittedly there are more valuable French colonies out there, but this is one of the few colonies that the German's had shown a interest in prior to the outbreak of the great war. The loss of French Morocco would not be a devastating blow to the French either, and depending on the peace treaty itself if it is less harsh then versailles it would probably prevent a fascist style coup from occurring.
Edited by Vonar Roberts, Jun 15 2014, 01:07 AM.
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Basil Fawlty
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Post Tenebras Lux
Could the Great War have been prevented after the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand? Could it have been prevented after the Austro-Hungarian ultimatum was delivered, for example, by the stop-in-Belgrade plan?
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Petar
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The General
Basil Fawlty
Jun 29 2014, 02:26 AM
Could the Great War have been prevented after the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand? Could it have been prevented after the Austro-Hungarian ultimatum was delivered, for example, by the stop-in-Belgrade plan?
Stop-in-Belgrade plan?
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Basil Fawlty
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Post Tenebras Lux
There was some idea floated that the Austrians should halt their advance in Belgrade, after which a mediation would take place. The notion was to humiliate the Serbs, let the Austrians say "mission accomplished," while not turning it into a world war.
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Petar
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The General
I've actually never heard of that.

On the other hand, I don't think it would've worked.
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Basil Fawlty
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Post Tenebras Lux
Quote:
 
In order to ensure acceptance of his peace plan, Grey proposed a “Stop in Belgrade” offer, in which Austria would occupy Belgrade and go no further.[166] Since this was the same proposal as Wilhelm had made, Bethmann Hollweg regarded this as a particular threat as it would have made it difficult for Germany to reject it.[166] Bethmann Hollweg asked that Austria at least make an effort to show some interest in the British peace plan.[167] In an effort to sabotage Bethmann Hollweg’s offer (which though not sincere was regarded as dangerous in case it might succeed), Moltke asked Vienna not to consider the British peace plan, and instead to order general mobilization and activate War Plan R, the Austrian war plan for a war against Russia.[168]

At a meeting with Bethmann Hollweg late on July 29th, both Falkenhayn and Moltke again demanded that Germany use Russian partial mobilization as an excuse to go to war.[162] Bethmann Hollweg again insisted that Germany must wait for Russian general mobilization as it was the only way of ensuring that the German public and that Britain would remain neutral in the “imminent war” against France and Russia.[162]
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Basil Fawlty
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Post Tenebras Lux
Today's Great War Centenary link: The Deaf in WWI.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-29846154
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Basil Fawlty
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Post Tenebras Lux
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30098000

Six unexpected battlefields of WWI.

I chuckled heartily at this line:

Quote:
 
Mexico

The length of one of the most aggressively monitored borders in the world runs for 3,145 km (1,954 miles). The iron pillars, concrete walls, security cameras and drones that make it virtually impermeable today were partly triggered by just a tiny bit of paper during WW1 - a telegram.

Obviously written by someone who's never been anywhere near that border.
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Basil Fawlty
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Post Tenebras Lux
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31042472

Today's topic: Gas warfare and its effectiveness.

Today is also the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Bolimow, the first gas attack of the war.
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Castanos
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Taking this topic slightly back.

I am of the opinion that Russia is responsible for the outbreak of WW1, above all others.
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Myles
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I would say that the chief factor, was all the alliances. Tensions between two of the nations would have brought in all the others, and it probable would have started anyway and the assassination was just the trigger.
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Basil Fawlty
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Post Tenebras Lux
Today's discussion topic: Foch and the 'cult of the offensive.'

http://www.firstworldwar.com/features/foch.htm
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Matthew
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Reminded me of this:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/World_Empires/single/?p=1068025&t=4780629

I'm fairly certain I quoted Foch directly, though I cannot recall from where I got the quote..

“recklessness in attack could lead to prohibitive losses and ultimate failure”

“the overwhelming rate of fire of the breech-loading repeating rifle, not to mention the machine gun, has given a tremendous advantage to the defender. I do not say an insurmountable advantage, but only tremendous.”

Edit: And if on the other hand I made some of that up, I'm rather impressed with myself..
Edited by Matthew, Feb 11 2015, 01:29 AM.
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Basil Fawlty
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Post Tenebras Lux
How were POWs treated during the war? You hear quite a lot about POWs in World War II, but very little about the First World War. I'd like to know where they were kept, how they lived day to day, and whether there were many escape attempts.
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Simon Darkshade
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
http://www.prisonersofwar1914-1918documents.com/

http://www.bl.uk/world-war-one/articles/prisoners-of-war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_prisoners_of_war_in_Germany

A few links to start off. Overall, it was somewhat similar to WW2 for Germans held in British camps and British prisoners held in Germany, with it being rougher for the Italians, Russians, Romanians, Austrians and anyone held by the Turks.
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Basil Fawlty
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Post Tenebras Lux
Most fascinating. What would you say is the reason for the relative difference in interest? Is it merely that WWII looms larger in popular consciousness? Even amongst American Civil War buffs, knowledge about POWs seems fairly common. I don't think I've ever heard any WWI buffs talk about that. (Not that I know very many of them.)
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