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This is Alternate History!
Topic Started: Jul 6 2013, 10:09 AM (606 Views)
Simon Darkshade
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzSu634EM-A

How the Nazis could have won and ruled America! I haven't laughed this much in ages. This is what passes for alternate history for many people.
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Matthew
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What the heck? "God bless America?" Not sure how they could have appropriated that one, even if they somehow made it across the Atlantic with an army big enough to hold America.

I feel insulted for the Americans.
Edited by Matthew, Jul 6 2013, 11:44 AM.
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Simon Darkshade
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It is well beyond insulting and just downright ridiculous. Hitler pitching the first ball of the 1955 World Series? Fascbook? It is just silly.

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Basil Fawlty
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I couldn't access it, but it sounds ridiculous from what you describe.

The Nazis did have a perverted version of Christianity they hijacked for political purposes, so I could see them trying to appropriate songs. It would not, however, be the Christ of the Bible.

Hitler pitching the first ball of the World Series? Good luck. The minute they get him into an arena of large men armed with bats, it's over.
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Simon Darkshade
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He was visiting on the 10th anniversary of Nazi Victory; in the previous scene, he was pictured being kissed by Marilyn Monroe before making a handprint on the footpath outside Grauman's Chinese Theatre on Hollywood Boulevard. Beyond ridiculous.

Essentially, German defeats D-Day with Me-262s and nukes NYC and Boston with sub launched V-2s in June 1945, resulting in US unconditional surrender signed in the Oval Office by FDR and a gleeful Hitler. The USA then becomes a compliant and enthusiastic Nazi nation until the present day, when social networks inspire protests about evidence of death camps in America.

It is quite literally the silliest thing I've seen, but does represent what a lot of people think alternate history consists of. It is much sillier than the CSA movie that can be found on Youtube, but that was being deliberately tounge in cheek.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSA:_Confederate_States_of_America
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Basil Fawlty
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Are you sure it is not a tongue in cheek movie itself?
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Simon Darkshade
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It is too artless and the context - shown on a cable channel named Spike - suggests that it is trying to take a broad and shallow approach to the topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_(TV_channel)#Alternate_History
Edited by Simon Darkshade, Jul 6 2013, 02:56 PM.
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Basil Fawlty
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Spike is a ridiculous channel for testosterone-pumping types.

Kind of like this fellow, actually:

Spoiler: click to toggle
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Petar
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The General
Oh, good God...
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Matthew
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They need to explain how Germany could divert the neccessary industry to producing enough of the Me-262s while holding them in reserve to introduce them en masse, instead of piecemeal, which would not fail to generate a response. What would they not be making as many of, as historical, and how would that influence the war?

I also think they give social media far too much credit vis a vis change. Hows Egypt working out for ya? (Honestly I'd say beter now...)
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Simon Darkshade
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Matthew, you are giving too much credit to their thought process and level of knowledge. Industrial limitations, butterflies, actions in response and the like - they don't enter into it.

It is alternate history from the point of view of a 12 year old boy.
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Doctor_Strangelove
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.
Edited by Doctor_Strangelove, Nov 11 2016, 10:26 AM.
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Matthew
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I was being semi-sarcastic, I find it a fun way to make fun of things.
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Petar
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The General
Eh, Egypt is a real bad can of worms... Granted, ElBaradei is definitely a better choice for the West, being a liberal Muslim, than Morsi, but all this mess can't end up good.

You can't sit on a throne made of bayonets for long. Something tells me that this won't be the first time the Egyptian Army at least tries to change the leadership of their country. Rather old methods, but I guess not much has changed among people since Rome...

"Somewhere, Thucydides is seen shaking his head."

EDIT: As for social media potentially being given a greater role than deserved in generating social change... not so sure about that. I don't know what's it like - I do know that Facebook has enabled the largest protests in Croatia since independence 2 years ago, which went on for almost a month, and not to mention their role in the Arab Spring...
Edited by Petar, Jul 7 2013, 12:13 AM.
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Basil Fawlty
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Matthew
Jul 6 2013, 05:53 PM
They need to explain how Germany could divert the neccessary industry to producing enough of the Me-262s while holding them in reserve to introduce them en masse, instead of piecemeal, which would not fail to generate a response. What would they not be making as many of, as historical, and how would that influence the war?
Maybe Hitler had a few good RNG rolls...

I wish I could open the movie, but it won't let me for some reason. (I can see other videos just fine.) It sounds like a Hogan's Heroes-esque caricature of history.
Edited by Basil Fawlty, Jul 7 2013, 01:33 AM.
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Matthew
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At least Hogan's Heroes wasn't trying to be taken seriously.

As to social media, I think it still comes down to people, good or bad, and how they act, and social media is just a tool, in much the same way as was television, radio, the broadsheet, and the printing press before it, as opposed to itself being the engine driving events.
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Simon Darkshade
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
Exactly. This was a case where social media types and talking heads fell over their feet in order to congratulate themselves over their reach and impact.
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Petar
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The General
Well, that I completely agree with. Social media is still nothing without the popular will.
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Basil Fawlty
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Did they explain how Facebook (Fascbook in the silly movie) was founded? I strongly suspect in a Nazi country that someone named Mark Zuckerberg would be one of the first to go.
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Matthew
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It does bring up the question of how importanr a free society is for innovation.

The closest thing we have to compare, through most of the period, would be the USSR, but I am not sure how close it would be.
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Basil Fawlty
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I couldn't help posting this when I read of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_Presidents

Some of the ideas there are tried and true AH themes. Others are... markedly different.
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Ironman
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I think your discussion over Fascpage ignores the fact that they have a search engine called Goebbel.
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Basil Fawlty
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bring_the_Jubilee

Eyy... ess... bee...

Keep in mind it was written in 1953. AH standards have changed since then.
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Jacapo
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Michael Dukakis is elected President in 1988, but is revealed to be an alien attempting to infiltrate Dulce Base. Men in Black therefore rewrite history for George H. W. Bush to win the election instead.
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