| Strength of Armed Forces | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 31 2010, 05:26 AM (752 Views) | |
| Simon Darkshade | Aug 31 2010, 05:26 AM Post #1 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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Figures in Millions 1939 UK: 0.5 USA: 0.6 USSR: 1.6 Germany: 1.3 Japan: 1.6 1940 UK: 2.3 USA: 0.7 USSR: 4.2 Germany: 5.6 Japan: 1.7 1941 UK: 3.4 USA: 1.9 USSR: 4.2 Germany: 7.2 Japan: 2.4 1942 UK: 4.1 USA: 4.8 USSR: 10.9 Germany: 8.6 Japan: 2.8 1943 UK: 4.8 USA: 11.1 USSR: 11.0 Germany: 9.5 Japan: 3.8 1944 UK: 5.0 USA: 14.8 USSR: 11.2 Germany: 9.1 Japan: 5.3 The salient points to keep in mind are: - The USA never fully mobilized - The USSR figures are concentrated in the Army, rather than spread across three services - German manpower capacity did not significantly increase from 41-44 - The impact of the 1914-1918 war can be seen in British and German numbers in the latter half of the war; fewer children due to a generation of men lost in the previous war - The British mobilization is one of the higher figures as a proportion of the adult male population, which had consequences - manpower requirements drove rapid demobbing postwar, and conscripts were used in coal mines - The US mobilization, in terms of what occured, took a good 18-24 months to produce troops for deployment purposes; this coincided with prewar naval construction coming online. |
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| Simon Darkshade | Feb 12 2011, 04:08 PM Post #2 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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3,778,000 British Army 1,185,000 Royal Air Force (including 125,000 in Bomber Command) 933,000 Royal Navy (including 75,000 Royal Marines) 5,896,000 total 2,500,000 Indian Army 52,500 Royal Indian Air Force 29,000 Royal Indian Navy 2,581,500 total 690,000 Canadian Army 222,500 Royal Canadian Air Force 99,400 Royal Canadian Navy 1,011,900 total 727,200 Australian Army 216,900 Royal Australian Air Force 48,900 Royal Australian Navy 993,000 total 208,000 South African Army 38,000 South African Air Force 4,000 South African Navy 250,000 total 157,000 New Zealand Army 27,000 Royal New Zealand Air Force 5,800 Royal New Zealand Navy 189,800 total |
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| Simon Darkshade | Oct 5 2011, 10:30 AM Post #3 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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September 1939 British Army 892697 officers and men 224000 Regulars 173700 Reserves (30 cavalry regiments and 140 infantry battalions) 438100 Territorial Army 20750 Territorial Army Reserve (29 cavalry regiments, 12 tank regiments and 232 infantry battalions) 34500 conscripts 1918 RAF 27353 officers 263837 men 25000 WRAF 22647 aircraft 103 airships 55 squadrons + 75 training squadrons + 401 aerodromes in Britain 133 squadrons + 15 flights + 270 aerodromes overseas RAF May 1945: 1.08 million men 199300 aircrew 9200 aircraft |
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| Simon Darkshade | Dec 27 2011, 05:23 PM Post #4 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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Rather than start a new thread, a little example of the productive capacity of pre WW1 Britain: laid down 09/1909; launched 08/1910; completed 05/1912 HMS Lion (Lion class BC) laid down 11/1909; launched 08/1910; completed 01/1912 HMS Orion (Orion class BB) laid down 04/1910; launched 03/1911; completed 03/1912 HMS Monarch (Orion class BB) laid down 04/1910; launched 02/1911; completed 06/1912 HMS Thunderer (Orion class BB) laid down 04/1910; launched 05/1911; completed 11/1912 HMS Conqueror (Orion class BB) laid down 05/1910; launched 04/1911; completed 11/1912 HMS Princess Royal (Lion class BC) laid down 01/1911; launched 10/1911, completed 11/1912 HMS King George V (King George V class BB) laid down 01/1911; launched 11/1911; completed 05/1913 HMS Centurion (King George V class BB) laid down 02/1911; launched 03/1912; completed 03/1913 HMS Ajax (King George V class BB) laid down 02/1911; launched 09/1912; completed 10/1913 HMS Audacious (King George V class BB) laid down 03/1911; launched 03/1912; completed 08/1913 HMS Queen Mary (Queen Mary class BC) laid down for Turkey 08/1911; launched 09/1913; seized by the RN; completed 08/1914 HMS Erin (BB) laid down for Brazil 09/1911; launched 01/1913; seized by the RN; completed 08/1914 HMS Agincourt (BB) laid down for Chile 11/1911; launched 11/1913; sold to England 09/1914; completed 09/1915 HMS Canada (BB) laid down 01/1912; launched 10/1912; completed 03/1914 HMS Iron Duke (Iron Duke class BB) laid down 01/1912; launched 10/1912; completed 06/1914 HMS Marlborough (Iron Duke class BB) laid down 05/1912; launched 11/1913; completed 10/1914 HMS Benbow (Iron Duke class BB) laid down 05/1912; launched 11/1913; completed 11/1914 HMS Emperor Of India (Iron Duke class BB) laid down 06/1912; launched 12/1913; completed 10/1914 HMS Tiger (Tiger class BC) laid down 10/1912; launched 10/1913; completed 01/1915 HMS Queen Elizabeth (Queen Elizabeth class BB) laid down 10/1912; launched 11/1913; completed 03/1915 HMS Warspite (Queen Elizabeth class BB) laid down 01/1913; launched 11/1914; completed 02/1916 HMS Valiant (Queen Elizabeth class BB) laid down 02/1913; launched 10/1914; completed 10/1915 HMS Barham (Queen Elizabeth class BB) laid down 10/1913; launched 04/1915; completed 02/1916 HMS Malaya (Queen Elizabeth class BB) Cancelled 08/1914 HMS Agincourt (Queen Elizabeth class BB) laid down 12/1913; launched 05/1915; completed 03/1916 HMS Revenge (Royal Sovereign class BB) laid down 01/1914; launched 04/1915; completed 05/1916 HMS Royal Sovereign (Royal Sovereign class BB) laid down 11/1913; launched 09/1916; completed 09/1917 HMS Ramillies (Royal Sovereign class BB) laid down 11/1913; launched 01/1915; completed 12/1916 HMS Resolution (Royal Sovereign class BB) laid down 01/1914; launched 11/1914; completed 05/1916 HMS Royal Oak (Royal Sovereign class BB) Suspended 08/1914, reordered as a light battlecruiser HMS Renown (Royal Sovereign class BB) Suspended 08/1914, reordered as a light battlecruiser HMS Repulse (Royal Sovereign class BB) Cancelled 08/1914 HMS Resistance (Royal Sovereign class BB) 25 battleships 4 battlecruisers 4 cancelled |
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| Basil Fawlty | Dec 27 2011, 05:27 PM Post #5 |
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Post Tenebras Lux
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So 5 BB per year on average. |
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| Simon Darkshade | Dec 27 2011, 05:55 PM Post #6 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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Yes, approximately. All on comparative peacetime funding, with the capacity to push things further - 'We want eight and we won't wait' was achievable, albeit at cost. Also notable is the short construction time, though none compare to the cases of Dreadnought and Repulse. |
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| Simon Darkshade | Jan 2 2012, 02:52 PM Post #7 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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Royal Artillery in the Second World War - 700,000 personnel at peak strength Following 926 regiments formed: 198 Heavy AA Regiments 144 Light AA Regiments 20 Defence Regiments 16 Garrison Regiments 93 Searchlight Regiments 5 Mountain Regiments 90 Coast Regiments 68 Anti-Tank Regiments 10 Light Regiments 163 Field Regiments 16 Royal Horse Artillery Regiments 56 Medium Regiments 25 Heavy Regiments 5 Superheavy Regiments 11 Survey Regiments 6 Maritime Regiments Not all operational at one time |
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| Simon Darkshade | Apr 24 2012, 10:27 PM Post #8 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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Selected European Air Force Orders of Battle (1st September 1939) Great Britain RAF Fighter Command 347 Hawker Hurricane Mk. 1 (16 Squadrons) (including reserves) 187 Supermarine Spitfire Mk. 1 (10 Squadrons) (including reserves) 24 Gloster Gladiator Mk II (2 Squadrons) 63 Blenheim Mk IF (7 Squadrons) RAF Bomber Command 158 Vickers Wellington (15 Squadrons) 73 Armstrong Whitworth Whitley (5 Squadrons) 169 Handley Page Hampden (10 Squadrons) 168 Bristol Blenheim Mks 1 and IV (12 Squadrons) 340 Fairey Battle (16 Squadrons) RAF Army Cooperation Command 60 Westland Lysander (5 Squadrons) RAF Coastal Command 120 Avro Anson (10 Squadrons) 36 Lockheed Hudson (3 Squadrons) 40 Short Sunderland Mk. 1 (4 Squadrons) France 4 Escadres de Chasse: 225 Morane-Saulnier MS.406 2 Escadres de Chasse: 100 Curtiss Hawk 75A 13 Escadres de Bombardment: 155 Bloch MB.210 Of the remaining 240 bombers in service, most were obsolete types such as the Bloch 200 and Amiot 143 There were also 59 reconnaissance and observation escadres equipped with the Potez 63 and ANF les Mureaux 115/7. Germany Luftflotten 2 and 3 (Western Front) 26 Jagdstaffeln: 336 Messerschmitt Bf 109D and 109Es 5 Zerstorergruppe: 180 Messerschmitt Bf 109C/109D and 110s 9 Kampfgruppen: 280 Heinkel He 111s, Dornier Do 17s and Junker Ju 88s 3 Stukagruppen: 100 Junkers Ju 87s Reserve: 26 Jagdgeschwader; some newly formed and under training Luftflotten 1 and 4 (Poland) (Approximations) 1,180 fighters 290 Ju 87 Stuka dive bombers, 1,100 bombers 550 transport aircraft 350 reconnaissance aircraft Edited by Simon Darkshade, Apr 24 2012, 10:43 PM.
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| Simon Darkshade | Mar 25 2013, 10:36 AM Post #9 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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Status of Divisions, 1 June 1946 Division Status Remarks 1st Armored Inactive Inactivated 25 April 1946 1st Cavalry Active Japan 1st Infantry Active Germany 2d Armored Active Fort Hood, Texas 2d Infantry Active Fort Lewis, Washington 3d Armored Inactive Inactivated 10 November 1945 3d Infantry Active Germany 4th Armored Active Reorganized as Constabulary 4th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 12 March 1946 5th Armored Inactive Inactivated 11 October 1945 5th Infantry Active Camp Campbell, Kentucky 6th Armored Inactive Inactivated 18 September 1945 6th Infantry Active Korea 7th Armored Inactive Inactivated 9 October 1945 7th Infantry Active Korea 8th Armored Inactive Inactivated 13 November 1945 8th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 20 November 1945 9th Armored Inactive Inactivated 13 October 1945 9th Infantry Active Germany 10th Armored Inactive Inactivated 13 October 1945 10th Mountain Inactive Inactivated 30 November 1945 11th Airborne Active Japan 11th Armored Disbanded Disbanded 31 August 1945 12th Armored Inactive Inactivated 3 December 1945 13th Airborne Inactive Inactivated 25 February 1946 13th Armored Inactive Inactivated 15 November 1945 14th Armored Inactive Inactivated 16 September 1945 16th Armored Inactive Inactivated 15 October 1945 17th Airborne Inactive Inactivated 14 September 1945 20th Armored Inactive Inactivated 2 April 1946 24th Infantry Active Japan 25th Infantry Active Japan 26th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 29 December 1945 27th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 31 December 1945 28th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 13 December 1945 29th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 17 January 1946 30th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 25 November 1945 31st Infantry Inactive Inactivated 21 December 1945 32d Infantry Inactive Inactivated 28 February 1946 33d Infantry Inactive Inactivated 5 February 1946 34th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 3 November 1945 35th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 7 December 1945 36th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 15 December 1945 37th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 18 December 1945 38th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 9 November 1945 40th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 7 April 1946 41st Infantry Inactive Inactivated 31 December 1945 42d Infantry Active Austria 43d Infantry Inactive Inactivated 1 November 1945 44th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 30 November 1945 45th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 7 December 1945 63d Infantry Inactive Inactivated 27 September 1945 65th Infantry Disbanded Disbanded 31 August 1945 66th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 8 November 1945 69th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 18 September 1945 70th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 11 October 1945 71stlnfantry Inactive Inactivated 11 March 1946 75th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 14 November 1945 76th Infantry Disbanded Disbanded 31 August 1945 77th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 15 March 1946 78th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 22 May 1946 79th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 11 December 1945 80th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 4 January 1946 81st Infantry Inactive Inactivated 20 January 1946 82d Airborne Active Fort Bragg, North Carolina 83d Infantry Inactive Inactivated 27 March 1946 84th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 21 January 1946 85th Infantry Disbanded Disbanded 25 August 1945 86th Infantry Active Philippine Islands 87th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 21 September 1945 88th Infantry Active Italy 89th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 17 December 1945 90th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 27 December 1945 91st Infantry Inactive Inactivated 1 December 1945 92d Infantry Inactive Inactivated 15 October 1945 93d Infantry Inactive Inactivated 3 February 1946 94th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 7 February 1946 95th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 15 October 1945 96th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 3 February 1946 97th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 31 March 1946 98th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 16 February 1946 99th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 27 September 1945 100th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 10 January 1946 101st Airborne Inactive Inactivated 30 November 1945 102d Infantry Inactive Inactivated 12 March 1946 103d Infantry Inactive Inactivated 20 September 1945 104th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 20 December 1945 106th Infantry Inactive Inactivated 2 October 1945 Americal Inactive Inactivated 12 December 1945 |
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| Simon Darkshade | Dec 24 2013, 06:39 PM Post #10 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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http://members.tripod.com/~marcin_w/index-2.html A nice little website with some lesser known WW2 orbats. |
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| Delta Force | Dec 24 2013, 08:05 PM Post #11 |
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That period was the only one in history in which military hardware built one year was completely obsolete the next. I'm not sure if it speaks to British production capacity as much as a Moore's Law situation going on with most technology at the time. Technology eventually started to plateau around the 1920s, so production was probably going to decline sooner or later anyways. Harder to justify massive building programs when your ships are going to serve on the frontlines for twenty years instead of five. I imagine many of the ships built on the tail end of the arms race would have kept serving into the 1940s even without an arms treaty. Interestingly, a similar Moore's Law situation happened with jet aircraft development after World War II. Jets that were developed early on were obsolete within a few years, but those built on the tail end of things still fly today. I doubt anyone at the time imagined the B-52, A-4, F-4, and F-5 would still be flying, all of them likely well into the 2020s.
Looks like the bomber mafias were still firmly in charge. I am more surprised by how many fighters there are. Without GCI and CAS, what was the doctrinal role of fighters before radars (I know it was around by 1939)? Were they actually expected to play a role in the next war, or simply reassure the populace during peacetime? Edited by Delta Force, Dec 24 2013, 08:06 PM.
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| Simon Darkshade | Mar 6 2014, 07:23 AM Post #12 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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A nice tidbit: "Prior to the end of the Cold War, the Army’s force requirements were daunting. For example, intelligence estimates credited the Soviet Army with more than two hundred divisions, eighty of which were manned at more than 50 percent strength and ready for operations with minimal mobilization and training. To address this kind of threat, the JCS developed a “Minimum-Risk Force” intended for a “high assurance of success” general war. In 1987, this force required 66 Army divisions: 40 for assignment to the European Command (EUCOM), 10 for the Central Command, 12 for the Pacific Command (PACOM), 2 for the Southern Command (SOUTHCOM), and 2 for defense of the continental United States (CONUS). Lacking the resources required to provide U.S. troops to all contingencies simultaneously, the Joint Staff reduced force levels to those of a “Planning Force,” which could meet U.S. strategic objectives with “reasonable risk.” Planning Force requirements were 36 Army divisions in 1987: 26 EUCOM, 6 CENTCOM, 2 PACOM, 0 SOUTHCOM, and 2 CONUS. The Army’s actual “Current Force” for that year was somewhat smaller: 18 active divisions (5 of which had reserve component “round-out” brigades) and 10 Army National Guard divisions. This “Current Force” obviously accepted increased risk, especially in lower priority theaters. Based on risk analysis and political priorities, it apportioned the twenty-eight existing Army divisions to the regional combatant commands as follows: 19 EUCOM, 5 CENTCOM, 2 PACOM, 0 SOUTHCOM, and 2 CONUS." |
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| Delta Force | Mar 11 2014, 09:01 PM Post #13 |
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I plan on writing some Cold War era timelines and stories and was wondering if anyone knows where I can find information on typical personnel and equipment quantities and types assigned to army and air force units of the NATO and Warsaw Pact nations (brigades vs. divisions, squadrons vs. wings, etc.). I'm also wondering how forces assigned to different services (USAF, USN, perhaps even between nations), commands (Tactical Air Command, Strategic Air Command, Aerospace Defense Command, etc.), and units (electronic warfare, tactical strike, photographic reconnaissance, etc.) would have worked together in an operational context. I've read that such operations were quite complex before the 1980s, and that it only changed due to the failed attempts to rescue the hostages at the Iranian embassy. |
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| Simon Darkshade | Mar 11 2014, 09:37 PM Post #14 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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For specific numbers, there are some TOEs on fas.org for the US Army, as well as a very accurate unit level NATO orbat of 1989 floating around. Actual manpower strength will prove a bit harder to find. Prior to the Goldwater-Nichols Act and all that, operations that involved multiple forces were difficult, but possible - Mayaguez, Operation Paul Bunyan and the Lebanon deployment of 1958. |
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| Delta Force | Mar 11 2014, 10:08 PM Post #15 |
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Are there any good resources on how Vietnam (for example) was managed between the various services and USAF commands? I know about how that's managed today, but what about before Goldwater-Nichols? Also, what about more ad hoc arrangements within the same service, such as electronic warfare, strike, and air superiority aircraft being used in the same strike package? The EF-111s probably never flew together as a full squadron (perhaps not even as a flight) while escorting strike packages in the Gulf War. |
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| Simon Darkshade | Mar 12 2014, 02:15 AM Post #16 |
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Nefarious Swashbuckler
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I'll have to dig around on Vietnam; there may be monographs in back issues of Proceedings, the archives of various Air Force colleges and on the Army History website. Broadly, there were divisions along geographical lines, with air support coming from naval task forces in certain zones and the US Marines operating in certain areas as compared to the Army. Such strike packages started to be used in Vietnam, either as pure USAF strike packages or USN alpha strikes. Coordinated operations that included both USN and USAF strikes did occur, but happened in a separate, timed fashion, with one service going first and the next hitting the target 15 minutes later. |
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