Sicilians

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Sicilians; Island of Sicily
Topic Started: Dec 3 2008, 11:29 PM (21,967 Views)
Obsidian	Feb 2 2009, 11:00 PM Post #21
Full Member Posts: 448 Group: Members Member #186 Joined: Dec 28, 2008 Gender: Male	I don't think there's a Greek influence. Obviously, Mediterraneans share similar ancestry and their looks are similar. It's a Mediterranean look, saying "a Greek influence" is like saying Greeks have a patent on it, which they don't.



Axumd	Feb 2 2009, 11:12 PM Post #22
Senior Member Posts: 1,470 Group: Members Member #50 Joined: Apr 8, 2008 Gender: Male Ancestry: Sub-Saharan African Religion: None Politics: Left	Obsidian Feb 2 2009, 11:00 PM I don't think there's a Greek influence. Obviously, Mediterraneans share similar ancestry and their looks are similar. It's a Mediterranean look, saying "a Greek influence" is like saying Greeks have a patent on it, which they don't. Of course Mediterraneans have similarities but there is differences as well, just like Northern Europeans who don't all look exactly the same even though lots of them share similarites with each other that sort of thing, but I see what you mean though.
	Axumd


*Crimson Guard*	Mar 28 2009, 08:42 PM Post #23
Spirit of Vengeance Posts: 19,861 Group: Moderators Member #3 Joined: Apr 2, 2008 Gender: Male Ancestry: Southern European Religion: Roman Catholic Politics: Far Right	Up until quite recently it was very impossible to come across any images of this genius: Giuseppe Sergi



Manu	Mar 29 2009, 12:06 AM Post #24
Med supremacy Posts: 3,881 Group: Members Member #286 Joined: Mar 13, 2009 Gender: Male Ancestry: European	nice post, lots of pics, thanksfully we are on the second page, that took a while to load. Funny comment robert, its true most of them would be taken for "hispanics" by the average american.
	"And you want to know what is the true and causal nature of the issue? it is simply that we have been tricked into accepting the foundations of our own slavery and we have ourselves built upon it our own prison; and nowadays we defend this self-inflicted yoke from anyone who tries to remove it from us and save us from our own folly."


Pictus	Mar 29 2009, 12:30 AM Post #25
Nelchaelim Posts: 474 Group: Members Member #284 Joined: Mar 9, 2009 Gender: Male Religion: Muslim Politics: Far Left	Nice thread CG, really nice one, just found that it was too many pictures for it's how good.
	"Given the choice, to rule a corrupt and falling empire, or to challenge the fates for another throw, a better throw against one's destiny... what was a king to do?". - Kain, Legacy Of Kain: Defiance


vanillagorilla2	Jun 30 2009, 08:16 AM Post #26
Full Member Posts: 461 Group: Members Member #409 Joined: Jun 15, 2009 Gender: Male Ancestry: European Religion: Christian Politics: Center	Men from Messina in a religious procession Sicilian girls from Flickr



mhagneto	Jul 7 2009, 06:40 AM Post #27
Full Member Posts: 202 Group: Members Member #72 Joined: Apr 11, 2008 Gender: Male Ancestry: European	Lampedusa's The Leopard is one of the great novels of the 20th Century, not too well known in the USA. Reminds me of Thomas Wolfe's Look Homeward, Angel Edited by mhagneto, Jul 7 2009, 06:43 AM.



vanillagorilla2	Jul 16 2009, 05:48 AM Post #28
Full Member Posts: 461 Group: Members Member #409 Joined: Jun 15, 2009 Gender: Male Ancestry: European Religion: Christian Politics: Center	2 actresses from Catania Donatella Finocchiaro Tiziana Lodato



*Crimson Guard*	Jul 16 2009, 03:14 PM Post #29
Spirit of Vengeance Posts: 19,861 Group: Moderators Member #3 Joined: Apr 2, 2008 Gender: Male Ancestry: Southern European Religion: Roman Catholic Politics: Far Right	Dario Alioto poker champion from Palermo: Edited by Crimson Guard, Jul 16 2009, 03:14 PM.



Arch Hades	Jul 16 2009, 07:28 PM Post #30
Senior Member Posts: 2,036 Group: Members Member #356 Joined: May 2, 2009 Gender: Male Ancestry: Southern European Religion: Spiritual Politics: Apolitical	Crimson Guard Mar 28 2009, 08:42 PM Up until quite recently it was very impossible to come across any images of this genius: Giuseppe Sergi Sergi wasn't Sicilian was he?



Arch Hades	Jul 16 2009, 07:31 PM Post #31
Senior Member Posts: 2,036 Group: Members Member #356 Joined: May 2, 2009 Gender: Male Ancestry: Southern European Religion: Spiritual Politics: Apolitical	Obsidian Feb 2 2009, 11:00 PM I don't think there's a Greek influence. Obviously, Mediterraneans share similar ancestry and their looks are similar. It's a Mediterranean look, saying "a Greek influence" is like saying Greeks have a patent on it, which they don't. There is a heavy Greek influence. "The presence or absence of genetic heterogeneity in Sicily has long been debated. Through the analysis of the variation of Y-chromosome lineages, using the combination of haplogroups and short tandem repeats from several areas of Sicily, we show that traces of genetic flows occurred in the island, due to ancient Greek colonization and to northern African contributions, are still visible on the basis of the distribution of some lineages. The genetic contribution of Greek chromosomes to the Sicilian gene pool is estimated to be about 37% whereas the contribution of North African populations is estimated to be around 6%.In particular, the presence of a modal haplotype coming from the southern Balkan Peninsula and of its one-step derivates associated to E3b1a2-V13, supports a common genetic heritage between." http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v17/n1/abs/ejhg2008120a.html



samysamy25	Jul 16 2009, 07:39 PM Post #32
Senior Member Posts: 1,771 Group: Members Member #434 Joined: Jul 5, 2009 Gender: Male Religion: None Politics: Center	according to several articles in genetics, Sicilians have a low genetic link with the Greek and North Africans I wonder to know if the Sicilians have no relation to the Mediterraneasn who are they ??? according to these articles published on the net
	Arabs And East African Sub-Saharan Ancestory [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBzELv2mXVw[/youtube]


*Crimson Guard*	Jul 17 2009, 01:43 AM Post #33
Spirit of Vengeance Posts: 19,861 Group: Moderators Member #3 Joined: Apr 2, 2008 Gender: Male Ancestry: Southern European Religion: Roman Catholic Politics: Far Right	Sir Infamous Jul 16 2009, 07:28 PM Sergi wasn't Sicilian was he? Yeah, he was: Born in Messina, Sicily, Sergi first studied law and then linguistics and philosophy. At the age of 19 he took part in Garibaldi's expedition to Sicily.[1] He later took courses in physics and anatomy, finally specializing in racial anthropology as a student of Cesare Lombroso. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Sergi



Forrester	Jul 17 2009, 01:45 AM Post #34
Senior Member Posts: 804 Group: Members Member #110 Joined: May 3, 2008 Gender: Male Ancestry: South Asian Religion: Muslim Politics: Far Right	Crimson Guard Mar 28 2009, 08:42 PM Up until quite recently it was very impossible to come across any images of this genius: Giuseppe Sergi Looks Atlanto-Mediterranid, no?



*Crimson Guard*	Jul 17 2009, 01:55 AM Post #35
Spirit of Vengeance Posts: 19,861 Group: Moderators Member #3 Joined: Apr 2, 2008 Gender: Male Ancestry: Southern European Religion: Roman Catholic Politics: Far Right	Yes, I would say so.



vanillagorilla2	Jul 17 2009, 03:14 AM Post #36
Full Member Posts: 461 Group: Members Member #409 Joined: Jun 15, 2009 Gender: Male Ancestry: European Religion: Christian Politics: Center	To samysamy25: Sicilians have a particularly strong link to Greeks (37% of Sicilian male lines are believed to be of Greek origin). There is a weaker link to North Africa (7-8% of male lines) as well as one to Northern Europe. I don't think that these ancestries are evenly distributed; one will probably find more Greek ancestry in the east and more northern/western European ancestry in the northwest of the island. That is because the different groups that invaded Sicily settled in different areas (for example, up to 20% of surnames in the Province of Messina- at the heart of the old Magna Graecia-are Greek, while Greek surnames are rare in the west). The distribution of Y-chromosome haplogroups is pretty different from west to east. Western Sicily has higher amounts of Western European haplogroups (almost 50% R and I) while eastern Sicily has higher amounts of Mediterranean haplogroups (especially E). From Di Gaetano et al., Differential Greek and northern African migrations to Sicily are supported by genetic evidence from the Y chromosome, European Journal of Human Genetics (2009) 17, 91–99. Edited by vanillagorilla2, Jul 17 2009, 03:17 AM.



*Crimson Guard*	Jul 17 2009, 03:45 AM Post #37
Spirit of Vengeance Posts: 19,861 Group: Moderators Member #3 Joined: Apr 2, 2008 Gender: Male Ancestry: Southern European Religion: Roman Catholic Politics: Far Right	The connection to the Greeks is more a Mesolithic one rather than anything else to be realistic, and its actually engulfs the Balkans not just Greece and their small portion of non-Military colonists which mixed with the locals during the Classical Age. http://racialreality.110mb.com/sicily/ The North African marker they use is J1(which is no more than 5%), and it may not have anything to do with historical North Africans, but rather a Meso-Neolithic one along the rest of them such as E, J, I and R markers ect that are found in Sicily which are infact indigenous to Southern Europe since before recorded history. Autosome testing of the entire ancestry places Sicilians as being central, and closer to the Spanish than the Greeks.



vanillagorilla2	Jul 17 2009, 04:07 AM Post #38
Full Member Posts: 461 Group: Members Member #409 Joined: Jun 15, 2009 Gender: Male Ancestry: European Religion: Christian Politics: Center	Crimson Guard Jul 17 2009, 03:45 AM The connection to the Greeks is more a Mesolithic one rather than anything else to be realistic, and its actually engulfs the Balkans not just Greece and their small portion of non-Military colonists which mixed with the locals during the Classical Age. http://racialreality.110mb.com/sicily/ The North African marker they use is J1(which is no more than 5%), and it may not have anything to do with historical North Africans, but rather a Meso-Neolithic one along the rest of them such as E, J, I and R markers ect that are found in Sicily which are infact indigenous to Southern Europe since before recorded history. Autosome testing of the entire ancestry places Sicilians as being central, and closer to the Spanish than the Greeks. Source please for your claim that Sicilians in general are more closely related to Spaniards than to Greeks? We have had this conversation before, and you didn't cite a source then either. I've seen studies that suggest the opposite. I am not saying that Greek ancestry is spread out evenly across the whole island; in fact I stated the opposite. Different parts of Sicily have different Y-chromosome frequencies, different types of surnames, probably even differences in common phenotypes. If you have a problem with the fact that people in eastern Sicily are partly descended from Greek colonists, I'm sorry. Get over it.



Arch Hades	Jul 17 2009, 07:21 PM Post #39
Senior Member Posts: 2,036 Group: Members Member #356 Joined: May 2, 2009 Gender: Male Ancestry: Southern European Religion: Spiritual Politics: Apolitical	Quote: Autosome testing of the entire ancestry places Sicilians as being central, and closer to the Spanish than the Greeks. No way, I'd have to see that. Not only do they physically descend from Greek colonialists to a significant degree, Sicilian and other southern Italians carry the same "neolithic" markers which are common in the East Mediterranean, and not at all common in Spain/Portugal. Sicilians are East Meds, not West Meds. Quote: The North African marker they use is J1(which is no more than 5%), and it may not have anything to do with historical North Africans, but rather a Meso-Neolithic one along the rest of them such as E, J, I and R markers ect that are found in Sicily which are infact indigenous to Southern Europe since before recorded history. true, but they didn't just use use J1, they also used E-M81..a Berber Marker. Combined they only came out to 5-6 percent. "E3b1b-M81 (2.12%) and of the Mid-Eastern J1-M267 (3.81%)"



vanillagorilla2	Jul 19 2009, 07:39 AM Post #40
Full Member Posts: 461 Group: Members Member #409 Joined: Jun 15, 2009 Gender: Male Ancestry: European Religion: Christian Politics: Center	I think you are right Sir Infamous. I've seen some studies (Bauchet et al 2008, 500 K SNPs) that show Italians as falling in a more "western" location along with Spaniards, but the Italians in question were northern and central Italians, not Sicilians. Studies done on Americans of unmixed European ancestries (Seldin et al, 2006- 5700 SNPs; Price et al 2008, 300 SNPs) show significant overlap between Italian-Americans (mostly of southern Italian/Sicilian descent) and Greek-Americans. Besides these autosomal studies, principal component analysis of Y-chromosome haplogroup data places Eastern Sicily closest to Greece and Cyprus.



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