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Question about arabs and indians
Topic Started: May 9 2012, 07:06 AM (1,209 Views)
humanbeing101
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Caucasian originated from Caucasus right? So does that mean most Arabs and Indians have origin from Caucasus? Also who were the original Arabs and Indians? Did they look similar to aboriginals and Africans and now they have Caucasoid features because they mixed with Caucasians too much?
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Oxy
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Indians are a mixture between a Caucasian type related to Iranians mixed with a local indigenous Ancestral South Indian substrate (often considered 'Australoid') which is relatively high in them 30-60% depending on ethnic group.

Regarding Arabs, they are related to Caucasians as they have origins from the Levant region, where the Neolithic started.
Arabids are essentially a more desert adapted variety of Armenoids. However, minor African admixture is present in many Arabs, but it is generally not higher than 10%.
Edited by Oxy, May 9 2012, 07:49 AM.
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Crimson Guard
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Caucasians didnt originate in the Caucasus. Indians are a mix of Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Australoid.
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Oxy
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Oh yeah and there is a minor Mongoloid element in the Eastern parts of India.
Edited by Oxy, May 9 2012, 07:50 AM.
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humanbeing101
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But why most arabs have big round eyes and so do indians especially the ones in the south like south india and gulf arabs. Is that because of australoid and negroid admixture is high among them?
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Indians and Arabs are mainly Caucasoid despite admixture with non Caucasoids. Indians are connected to West Eurasians(which also includes Europeans) but have closer connection to their Caucasoid neighbors, Middle Eastern peoples.

Population structure in South Asia (Metspalu et al. 2011)

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South Asia harbors one of the highest levels genetic diversity in Eurasia, which could be interpreted as a result of its long-term large effective population size and of admixture during its complex demographic history. In contrast to Pakistani populations, populations of Indian origin have been underrepresented in previous genomic scans of positive selection and population structure. Here we report data for more than 600,000 SNP markers genotyped in 142 samples from 30 ethnic groups in India. Combining our results with other available genome-wide data, we show that Indian populations are characterized by two major ancestry components, one of which is spread at comparable frequency and haplotype diversity in populations of South and West Asia and the Caucasus. The second component is more restricted to South Asia and accounts for more than 50% of the ancestry in Indian populations. Haplotype diversity associated with these South Asian ancestry components is significantly higher than that of the components dominating the West Eurasian ancestry palette. Modeling of the observed haplotype diversities suggests that both Indian ancestry components are older than the purported Indo-Aryan invasion 3,500 YBP. Consistent with the results of pairwise genetic distances among world regions, Indians share more ancestry signals with West than with East Eurasians. However, compared to Pakistani populations, a higher proportion of their genes show regionally specific signals of high haplotype homozygosity. Among such candidates of positive selection in India are MSTN and DOK5, both of which have potential implications in lipid metabolism and the etiology of type 2 diabetes.


http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/12/population-structure-in-south-asia.html


Afghanistan from a Y-chromosome perspective

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Abstract

Central Asia has served as a corridor for human migrations providing trading routes since ancient times. It has functioned as a conduit connecting Europe and the Middle East with South Asia and far Eastern civilizations. Therefore, the study of populations in this region is essential for a comprehensive understanding of early human dispersal on the Eurasian continent. Although Y- chromosome distributions in Central Asia have been widely surveyed, present-day Afghanistan remains poorly characterized genetically. The present study addresses this lacuna by analyzing 190 Pathan males from Afghanistan using high-resolution Y-chromosome binary markers. In addition, haplotype diversity for its most common lineages (haplogroups R1a1a*-M198 and L3-M357) was estimated using a set of 15 Y-specific STR loci. The observed haplogroup distribution suggests some degree of genetic isolation of the northern population, likely due to the Hindu Kush mountain range separating it from the southern Afghans who have had greater contact with neighboring Pathans from Pakistan and migrations from the Indian subcontinent. Our study demonstrates genetic similarities between Pathans from Afghanistan and Pakistan, both of which are characterized by the predominance of haplogroup R1a1a*-M198 (>50%) and the sharing of the same modal haplotype. Furthermore, the high frequencies of R1a1a-M198 and the presence of G2c-M377 chromosomes in Pathans might represent phylogenetic signals from Khazars, a common link between Pathans and Ashkenazi groups, whereas the absence of E1b1b1a2-V13 lineage does not support their professed Greek ancestry.


http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/04/another-look-at-y-chromosomes-of.html

Admixture Behar et. tal 2010:

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Oxy
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humanbeing101
May 9 2012, 08:00 AM
But why most arabs have big round eyes and so do indians especially the ones in the south like south india and gulf arabs. Is that because of australoid and negroid admixture is high among them?

Lol, are you Chinese or something?

Negroid eyes are usually small or medium sized, not big. So big eyes seems to be an endemic trait of Gulf Arabs (common in Armenoids as well). Also, Negroid admixture is not high in ethnic Arabs, it's usually less than 10%.

As for Indians, their eyes aren't that big overall.
Edited by Oxy, May 9 2012, 08:18 AM.
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humanbeing101
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Oxy
May 9 2012, 07:41 AM
Indians are a mixture between a Caucasian type related to Iranians mixed with a local indigenous Ancestral South Indian substrate (often considered 'Australoid') which is relatively high in them 30-60% depending on ethnic group.

Regarding Arabs, they are related to Caucasians as they have origins from the Levant region, where the Neolithic started.
Arabids are essentially a more desert adapted variety of Armenoids. However, minor African admixture is present in many Arabs, but it is generally not higher than 10%.
So lets say an unmixed indian look identical to persians? And also unmixed gulf arab look identical to levant and iraqi arabs?
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Oxy
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humanbeing101
May 9 2012, 12:31 PM
So lets say an unmixed indian look identical to persians? And also unmixed gulf arab look identical to levant and iraqi arabs?
Yes and no. Even prior to admixture did they diverge from their ancestral stocks in different phenotypic directions. Arabids are desert adapted Armenoids (so more gracile and tan than them).
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Ethbaal
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Oxy
May 9 2012, 07:41 AM
Indians are a mixture between a Caucasian type related to Iranians mixed with a local indigenous Ancestral South Indian substrate (often considered 'Australoid') which is relatively high in them 30-60% depending on ethnic group.

Regarding Arabs, they are related to Caucasians as they have origins from the Levant region, where the Neolithic started.
Arabids are essentially a more desert adapted variety of Armenoids. However, minor African admixture is present in many Arabs, but it is generally not higher than 10%.
Populations of the Southern Levant region could be considered as major genetic ancestral component of Arabians.

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The Y-chromosome genetic structure of the Arabian Peninsula seems to be mainly modulated by geography. The data confirm that this area has mainly been a recipient of gene flow from its African and Asian surrounding areas, probably mainly since the last Glacial maximum onwards. Although rare deep rooting lineages for Y chromosome haplogroups E and J have been detected, the presence of more basal clades supportive of the southern exit route of modern humans to Eurasian, were not found.


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Results
Saudi Arabia differentiates from other Arabian Peninsula countries by a higher presence of J2-M172 lineages. It is significantly different from Yemen mainly due to a comparative reduction of sub-Saharan Africa E1-M123 and Levantine J1-M267 male lineages. Around 14% of the Saudi Arabia Y-chromosome pool is typical of African biogeographic ancestry, 17% arrived to the area from the East across Iran, while the remainder 69% could be considered of direct or indirect Levantine ascription. Interestingly, basal E-M96* (n = 2) and J-M304* (n = 3) lineages have been detected, for the first time, in the Arabian Peninsula. Coalescence time for the most prominent J1-M267 haplogroup in Saudi Arabia (11.6 ± 1.9 ky) is similar to that obtained previously for Yemen (11.3 ± 2) but significantly older that those estimated for Qatar (7.3 ± 1.8) and UAE (6.8 ± 1.5).


Study title: Saudi Arabian Y-Chromosome diversity and its relationship with nearby regions.

Are you saying that Arabids are desert adapted Armenoids because of the overwhelming J haplogroup within the Arabian population ? I understand that Arabids are physically close and attributed to Mediterranids in general.
Edited by Ethbaal, May 9 2012, 01:26 PM.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.

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memobekes
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May 9 2012, 07:43 AM
Caucasians didnt originate in the Caucasus.
I've invariably wondered about the origins of Caucasians, too.

It is sometimes thought that all humans evolved in Africa, hence leading to the "out of Africa" hypothesis that all modern humans derive from one group of Homo sapiens. But that's the problem, it's only a theory.

On the other hand, Blumenbach, the influential German scholar, once labeled white people as Caucasians and tried to find a link between their origins with the Caucasus region arguing that the purest white people originated from there.

What's your views on this? Do either theories hold much weight in today's scientific arena?
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Oxy
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Ethbaal
May 9 2012, 01:21 PM
Are you saying that Arabids are desert adapted Armenoids because of the overwhelming J haplogroup within the Arabian population ? I understand that Arabids are physically close and attributed to Mediterranids in general.
Yeah, J originated in a proto-Armenoid population.
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Ethbaal
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Oxy
May 9 2012, 02:04 PM
Ethbaal
May 9 2012, 01:21 PM
Are you saying that Arabids are desert adapted Armenoids because of the overwhelming J haplogroup within the Arabian population ? I understand that Arabids are physically close and attributed to Mediterranids in general.
Yeah, J originated in a proto-Armenoid population.
Since when genetics is considered to correlate with phenotype ?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.

Oscar Wilde

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Oxy
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Ethbaal
May 9 2012, 02:11 PM
Oxy
May 9 2012, 02:04 PM
Ethbaal
May 9 2012, 01:21 PM
Are you saying that Arabids are desert adapted Armenoids because of the overwhelming J haplogroup within the Arabian population ? I understand that Arabids are physically close and attributed to Mediterranids in general.
Yeah, J originated in a proto-Armenoid population.
Since when genetics is considered to correlate with phenotype ?
I'm talking about the ancestral population. IJ has origins near Anatolia, while J is from Northern Mesopotamia.
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