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'Northern'/'caucasoid' geneflow into ancient Nubians?
Topic Started: Jul 20 2011, 12:05 AM (4,704 Views)
Arch Hades
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In a study which attempted to show biological relationship with ancient Nubians and Egyptians, the Kerma 'Nubian' sample it was interestingly enough i noted showed a strong relationship with pre-dynastic Badari and Naqada. But here's an obvious reason why.

[blockquote]"the close clustering of Badari and Naqada with Kerma exemplifies the possible relationship of Nubians to Egyptians. Originally, the Nubian A-Group was thought to be Badarian in origin (Reisner, 1910). However, later work (Adams, 1977; Godde, 2009a) established that the A-Group were actually Nubian. Comparisons of C-Group and Pan-Grave Nubians to Badari and Hierakonpolis separate Badari from the other samples, indicating no biological affinities with these earlier Nubian groups (Godde, 2009b). The reoccurring notation of Kerma affinities with Egyptian groups is not entirely surprising. Kerma was an integral part of the trade between Egypt and Nubia. Collett (1933) concluded that Kerma was originally inhabited by Egyptians with neighboring Nubian settlements. Her investigation of the site pointed towards continuous Egyptian occupation of some sort at the site throughout the Kerma time period. This continued presence at Kerma is an optimal condition for gene flow to occur between the two populations."[/blockquote]

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http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018442X09001176





Also another relevant study on Ancient Nubian mtdna.


[blockquote]"The Hpal (np3,592) mitochondrial DNA marker is a selectively neutral mutation that is very common in sub-Saharan Africa and is almost absent in North African and European populations. It has been screened in a Meroitic sample from ancient Nubia through PCR amplification and posterior enzyme digestion, to evaluate the sub-Saharan genetic influences in this population. From 29 individuals analysed, only 15 yield positive amplifications, four of them (26�7%) displaying the sub-Saharan African marker. Hpa I (np3,592) marker is present in the sub-Saharan populations at a frequency of 68�7 on average. Thus, the frequency of genes from this area in the Merotic Nubian population can be estimated at around 39% (with a confidence interval from 22% to 55%). The frequency obtained fits in a south-north decreasing gradient of Hpa I (np3,592) along the African continent. Results suggest that morphological changes observed historically in the Nubian populations are more likely to be due to the existence of south-north gene flow through the Nile Valley than to in-situ evolution." [/blockquote]


http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03014469700004952





Population of Nubia up to the 16th century BC

[blockquote]
"ABSTRACT The article presents anthropological characteristics (morphological features, paleodemography and paleopathology) of the population inhabiting Nubia from the end of the Upper Palaeolithictill the 16th century BC. The material basis for this work consisted of the collections of bones coming from the archaeological researches carried out in Nubia."[/blockquote]

[blockquote]"The Nubians were hardly a homogeneous population. Neither the climate nor the specific geographic conditions in the region they inhabited were conducive of such homogeneity. The population of Nubia was shaped by several migration waves coming from Northwest Africa and from Asia through Sinai and Yemen. All those population movements gained on intensity in the Neolithic, but they did not prevent repeated contacts of the people of Nubia with Southern Africa."[/blockquote]

http://www.anthro.amu.edu.pl/pdf/paar/vol062/07pudlo.pdf
Edited by Arch Hades, Jul 20 2011, 03:21 PM.
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husaria
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That might explain the high Haplogroup J1 in Nubians.
But, It is very strange that Nubians have alot more J1 than Egyptians.

Even more puzzling is the R1b found in Chaditic speakers like the Hausa & in Cameroon.
Edited by husaria, Jul 20 2011, 02:51 AM.
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So what is the % estimate of Caucasoid ancestry via Y chromosome?
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Ankober
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Jul 20 2011, 03:38 AM
So what is the % estimate of Caucasoid ancestry via Y chromosome?
I'd say about the same amount of Negroid ancestry found in Greeks and Southern Italians via the Y Chromosome (E1b1b)
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Oxy
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Nubian mtDNA

From Richards et al. (2000), N=51.

R0a 5.9%
H 5.9%
HV 3.9%
J 5.9%
K 2.0%
R* 3.9%
T1a 3.9%
T2 2.0%
U3 2.0%
X 2.0%
L0a 3.9%
L0f 2.0%
L1b 7.8%
L2a 15.7%
L3* 3.9%
L3b 2.0%
L3f 9.8%
L3i 2.0%
L5a 5.9%
M1 9.8%


Nubian yDNA

From Hassan et al. (2008), N=39.

7.7% B-M60
7.7% E1b1b-M215(xE1b1b1a-M78)
12.8% E1b1b1a1-V12(xE1b1b1a1b-V32)
2.6% E1b1b1a1b-V32
10.3% F-M89(xH1-M52, I-M170, J-12f2, K-M9)
5.1% I-M170
41.0% J-12f2(xJ2-M172)
2.6% J2-M172
10.3% R1b1-P25
Edited by Oxy, Jul 20 2011, 05:04 AM.
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Arch Hades
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Added this to the opening post



[blockquote]"The Nubians were hardly a homogeneous population. Neither the climate nor the specific geographic conditions in the region they inhabited were conducive of such homogeneity. The population of Nubia was shaped by several migration waves coming from Northwest Africa and from Asia through Sinai and Yemen. All those population movements gained on intensity in the Neolithic, but they did not prevent repeated contacts of the people of Nubia with Southern Africa."[/blockquote]
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luckystar85
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@ Ankober E3b is Neolithic Jesus, no one listens. And J1 is a Arabian Gulf type Arab gene
I want to marry Yannis Tsimitselis
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four
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I think you missed a major point of one of the conclusions of that study.


Quote:
 
From the Neolithic on, or possibly even
earlier, the strategic location of Nubia,
promoting contacts between various populations,
started to bring about effects in the
form of the civilizational development of
this region. Finally, these two factors led to
the Hamitisation process, whereby superimposition
of the Caucasoids on the Negroids
took place


Hamite is a code word for Horn African. "Hamite" used in conjunction with "Caucasoid" when speaking of Africa is a dead giveaway for Horn African ancestry. This is especially true because the "Hamitic" skulls in question do not cluster with West Asians but Horn Africans. What this study seems be describing is the presence of Nilotic populations in the Nile Valley and Sahara mixing with AfroAsiatic peoples.
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luckystar85
Jul 20 2011, 03:22 PM
And J1 is a Arabian Gulf type Arab gene
J1 is Arab? :eek:
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treopod
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Ankober
Jul 20 2011, 03:58 AM
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Jul 20 2011, 03:38 AM
So what is the % estimate of Caucasoid ancestry via Y chromosome?
I'd say about the same amount of Negroid ancestry found in Greeks and Southern Italians via the Y Chromosome (E1b1b)
nope, cause the E haplogroups in south europe did not come from black men, it came from north african berbers who are caucasoids.

and even so E is euroasian in origin so it came into africa long ago by non-blacks anyway.

and the male caucasoid admixture in nubia and the rest of east africa is much higher than the observed E in southern europe.
four
Jul 21 2011, 07:34 PM
I think you missed a major point of one of the conclusions of that study.


Quote:
 
From the Neolithic on, or possibly even
earlier, the strategic location of Nubia,
promoting contacts between various populations,
started to bring about effects in the
form of the civilizational development of
this region. Finally, these two factors led to
the Hamitisation process, whereby superimposition
of the Caucasoids on the Negroids
took place


Hamite is a code word for Horn African. "Hamite" used in conjunction with "Caucasoid" when speaking of Africa is a dead giveaway for Horn African ancestry. This is especially true because the "Hamitic" skulls in question do not cluster with West Asians but Horn Africans. What this study seems be describing is the presence of Nilotic populations in the Nile Valley and Sahara mixing with AfroAsiatic peoples.
nope, because hamites/kuschitic people or the horn african pehnotype, did in fact not exist until the hybridisation of west asian caucasoid males and negroid african females took place in east africa.
the fact that nubians and other east africans have y-dna J at such high levels is a nail in the coffin, since its been proven that J originated in middle eastern caucasoids.
Edited by treopod, Sep 13 2011, 11:53 PM.
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E3b is not Negroid, that troll is just trying to be provoking in relation like a child. The type of E3b commonly found in Southern Europeans is not not the Berber mutation kind anyway, but the kind that originated in the Balkans. The Berber subclade of E3b is negligible in Europe. E3b originated over 40,000 years ago in likely Eurasia or Northeast Africa.
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Jprezy87
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treopod
Sep 13 2011, 11:46 PM
Ankober
Jul 20 2011, 03:58 AM
Crimson Guard
Jul 20 2011, 03:38 AM
So what is the % estimate of Caucasoid ancestry via Y chromosome?
I'd say about the same amount of Negroid ancestry found in Greeks and Southern Italians via the Y Chromosome (E1b1b)
nope, cause the E haplogroups in south europe did not come from black men, it came from north african berbers who are caucasoids.

and even so E is euroasian in origin so it came into africa long ago by non-blacks anyway.

and the male caucasoid admixture in nubia and the rest of east africa is much higher than the observed E in southern europe.
four
Jul 21 2011, 07:34 PM
I think you missed a major point of one of the conclusions of that study.


Quote:
 
From the Neolithic on, or possibly even
earlier, the strategic location of Nubia,
promoting contacts between various populations,
started to bring about effects in the
form of the civilizational development of
this region. Finally, these two factors led to
the Hamitisation process, whereby superimposition
of the Caucasoids on the Negroids
took place


Hamite is a code word for Horn African. "Hamite" used in conjunction with "Caucasoid" when speaking of Africa is a dead giveaway for Horn African ancestry. This is especially true because the "Hamitic" skulls in question do not cluster with West Asians but Horn Africans. What this study seems be describing is the presence of Nilotic populations in the Nile Valley and Sahara mixing with AfroAsiatic peoples.
nope, because hamites/kuschitic people or the horn african pehnotype, did in fact not exist until the hybridisation of west asian caucasoid males and negroid african females took place in east africa.
the fact that nubians and other east africans have y-dna J at such high levels is a nail in the coffin, since its been proven that J originated in middle eastern caucasoids.
Hmmm...its bad these white folks want to claim Egypt as non-african...now they want to move in on Nubia as well!! HA :lol:

A couple of FACTS here folks, instead of Sir Infamous's usual trolling,,,

1. Haplogroup E is African in origin, and so is its sub-clade E3b....

2. Ancient Egypt was black, but today is very mixed, same case with Nubia

3. Nubia was black originally, although like Egypt it experienced gene flow from outside regions, although to a much lesser degree...

4. Ethiopians are still black,,, and aren't THAT MIXED...
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Jprezy87
Sep 14 2011, 09:45 PM
1. Haplogroup E is African in origin, and so is its sub-clade E3b....

Maybe, maybe not.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/1502628/1/

Quote:
 
2. Ancient Egypt was black

Nope.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/3973609/1/

Quote:
 
3. Nubia was black

Nope. See above link.

Quote:
 
4. Ethiopians are still black,,, and aren't THAT MIXED...

They're VERY mixed: ~50% Caucasoid.

http://dodona.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=genetics&action=display&thread=6741
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Jprezy87
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Sep 15 2011, 02:20 PM
Quote:
 
Maybe, maybe not.


Haplogroup e3b origin is african...without a doubt..thats agreed upon by virtually every qualified geneticist...which you are not :D

Quote:
 
( Ancient Nubia was black) Nope. See above link.


Wow...can't believe folks are actually debating this. :yawn:

Quote:
 
They're (ethiopians) VERY mixed: ~50% Caucasoid.


As usual you spout empty claims not backed up by evidence (source!?)...look..no one debates that Ethiopians have mixed with foreign folk over the millenia (especially south arabians)...I mean you don't sit at one of the world's major trading networks for thousands of years without bumping uglies with the people you're trading with. BUT AT THE SAME TIME...the admixture in ethiopians is often exaggerated for ideological purposes to say that they're not really African..when in fact the caucasoid/south arabian ancestry in ethiopians (outside of the Amhara) is quite minimal...

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Africa doe not mean Negroid. Obviously you did not read the scientific evidence posted. Nor are you understanding the fact that origin of that Haplogroup is not yet agreed upon and the Eurasian origin is looking more likely. As I said above it likely originated in Northeast African or the Near East/Eurasia.

Quote:
 

Y-DNA haplogroup E probably arose in Northeast Africa, if one looks only at the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration.Today E* is found predominantly in Ethiopia. E1 and E2 are found in Northeast Africa, but surveys show E1 may actually be more prevalent in Mali than in its presumed region of origin. E4 is a minor subclade. E3 is by far the lineage of greatest geographical distribution. It has two important sub-lineages, E3a and E3b. E3a is an African lineage that probably expanded from northern Africa to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion. E3a is the most common lineage among African Americans. E3b probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. E3b clusters are seen today in Western Europe, the Balkans, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa. The Cruciani articles (references and links below) are indispensable resources for understanding the structure of this complicated haplogroup.

A caution on clade labels: Because knowledge of this branch of the Y-chromosome tree has advanced so quickly in the last few years, different clade labels can be found in current use for the same SNP-determined branch of the tree. For example, it is still common to see E3b1 and E3b2 used to distinguish between the M78 and M81 branches of the tree though greater resolution is now possible. Also, STR-based distinctions in the M78 branch at one time permitted broad distinctions of alpha, beta, gamma and delta clusters. With the new SNPs reported in the 2006 and 2007 Cruciani studies, it has become possible to see that the alpha cluster, which is widely distributed in Europe, is strongly correlated with the V13 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a2; the beta cluster is strongly correlated with the V65 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a4; the gamma cluster correlates with the V32 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a1a; and the delta cluster tends to correlate with the V22 SNP (E3b1a3) though it includes some V12 haplotypes (E3b1a1) as well.


http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE07.html
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Jprezy87
Sep 15 2011, 09:02 PM
Wow...can't believe folks are actually debating this.

There's nothing to debate. The evidence is clear. Ancient Egyptians and Nubians were Caucasoid:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/3973609/1/

Period.

Quote:
 
As usual you spout empty claims not backed up by evidence (source!?)

I back every claim up with evidence, and this one's no exception:

[blockquote]"...East Africans (Ethiopian and neighbors) are also clearly separate. Estimation of admixture by standard methods...has given values of about 60% African and 40% Caucasoid, using sub-Saharan Africans as African 'parents' and Southwest Asians as Caucasoid parents. Because very similar results are obtained using North Africans as Caucasoid parents, it is difficult to tell whether Southwest Asians or North Africans contributed the Caucasoid genes. Perhaps both did. Using the simple Fst approach...for calculating admixtures, average gene frequencies from Nilotic speakers as prototypes of African ancestors, as well as gene frequencies of North Africans...as Caucasoid ancestors, one obtains 53% of African (and 47% Caucasoid) contribution for Tigre, 57% for Amhara, 56% for Cushitic."

http://books.google.com/books?id=FrwNcwKaUKoC&printsec=frontcover [/blockquote]
[blockquote]"Notably, 62% of the Ethiopians [Oromo and Amhara] fall in the first cluster, which encompasses the majority of the Jews, Norwegians and Armenians, indicating that placement of these individuals in a 'Black' cluster would be an inaccurate reflection of the genetic structure. Only 24% of the Ethiopians are placed in the cluster with the Bantu and most of the Afro-Caribbeans."

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Wilson-NatGen-01-GDR.pdf [/blockquote]
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reddy
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Sep 15 2011, 09:11 PM
Africa doe not mean Negroid. Obviously you did not read the scientific evidence posted. Nor are you understanding the fact that origin of that Haplogroup is not yet agreed upon and the Eurasian origin is looking more likely. As I said above it likely originated in Northeast African or the Near East/Eurasia.

Quote:
 

Y-DNA haplogroup E probably arose in Northeast Africa, if one looks only at the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration.Today E* is found predominantly in Ethiopia. E1 and E2 are found in Northeast Africa, but surveys show E1 may actually be more prevalent in Mali than in its presumed region of origin. E4 is a minor subclade. E3 is by far the lineage of greatest geographical distribution. It has two important sub-lineages, E3a and E3b. E3a is an African lineage that probably expanded from northern Africa to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion. E3a is the most common lineage among African Americans. E3b probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. E3b clusters are seen today in Western Europe, the Balkans, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa. The Cruciani articles (references and links below) are indispensable resources for understanding the structure of this complicated haplogroup.

A caution on clade labels: Because knowledge of this branch of the Y-chromosome tree has advanced so quickly in the last few years, different clade labels can be found in current use for the same SNP-determined branch of the tree. For example, it is still common to see E3b1 and E3b2 used to distinguish between the M78 and M81 branches of the tree though greater resolution is now possible. Also, STR-based distinctions in the M78 branch at one time permitted broad distinctions of alpha, beta, gamma and delta clusters. With the new SNPs reported in the 2006 and 2007 Cruciani studies, it has become possible to see that the alpha cluster, which is widely distributed in Europe, is strongly correlated with the V13 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a2; the beta cluster is strongly correlated with the V65 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a4; the gamma cluster correlates with the V32 SNP that identifies Haplogroup E3b1a1a; and the delta cluster tends to correlate with the V22 SNP (E3b1a3) though it includes some V12 haplotypes (E3b1a1) as well.


http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE07.html
What is this?? Chandresekhar junk?

From 2008, which comes after 2007:

Quote:
 
Hammer’s group integrated more than 300 new markers into the tree, which allowed the resolution of many features that were not yet discernable, as well as the revision of previous arrangements. “The major lineages within the most common African haplogroup, E, are now all sorted out, with the topology providing new interpretations on the geographical origin of ancient sub-clades,” describes Hammer. “When one polymorphism formerly described as unique, but recently shown to have reversed was replaced by recently reported markers, a sub-haplogroup of haplogroup O, the most common in China, was considerably rearranged,” explains Fernando Mendez, a co-author of the study.

In addition to improving the resolution of branches, the latest reconstruction of the tree allows estimates of time to the most recent common ancestor of several haplogroups. “The age of [haplogroup] DE is about 65,000 years, just a bit younger than the other major lineage to leave Africa, which is assumed to be about 70,000 years old,” says Hammer, describing an example of the fine resolution of age that is now possible. “Haplogroup E is older than previously estimated, originating approximately 50,000 years ago.”


http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-04/cshl-sry032608.php

Simple. Problem solved for you. Haplogroup E is an AFRICAN gene, no question.
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reddy
Sep 16 2011, 07:27 PM
From 2008, which comes after 2007:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-04/cshl-sry032608.php

Simple. Problem solved for you. Haplogroup E is an AFRICAN gene, no question.

Your source doesn't say that E originated in Africa.

Anyway, 2009 comes after 2008, and it's now more certain that DE originated in Asia:

[blockquote]"This model proposes the successful colonization of Eurasia by migration(s) of populations containing precursor Y-chromosome founder macrohaplogroup CDET-M168 and basal mtDNA L3 representatives. Regions near but external to northeast Africa, like the Levant or the southern Arabian Peninsula could have served as an incubator for the early diversification of non-African uniparental haplogroup varieties like Y chromosome DE-YAP*, CF-P143* and mtDNA M and N molecular ancestors. These would have spread globally and diversified over time and space. This model would imply that both CF-P143 and the DE-YAP evolved nearby but outside Africa."

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/10/59 [/blockquote]
Which in turn has made the origin of E uncertain:

[blockquote]"The similarity of patterns of different mutants indicates some secondary expansions. It is also interesting to sum the distributions of different haplogroups descending from the same mutation, as for example D and E, which both descend from DE-YAP, the first mutation that split into the E branch that perhaps returned to Africa (or arose there), whereas the other branch, D, is found today mainly in the Himalayas and Japan."

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/48/20174.full [/blockquote]
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Nubia was never 'Negroid', however they did have Capoid affinities. given the proximity of Nubia to West Asia that explains Angels detection of a 'bushman-like basic white', which is 'eastern rather than African', as far as Anatolia and Macedonia (ie there was slight admixture of Capoids from north-east Africa among the Neolithic farmers there, who as a population, were definately Caucasoid or Europoid).

And Nubia has experienced Caucasoid or Europoid immigration from outside Nubia.

http://www.anthro.amu.edu.pl/pdf/paar/vol062/07pudlo.pdf

"On the basis of the average indices of the skulls from the Nubian series as well as from African [Kultura 1974; ANDERSON 1968; WIERCIŃSKI 1963; MICHALSKI 1963] and Asian series [WIERCIŃSKI 1965], the comparison analysis performed with the use of Czekanowski’s diagraphic method showed strong similarities between the Upper Palaeolithic and Mesolithic population of Nubia and the present-day Hottentot and Bushmen populations inhabiting Southeast and South Africa. Hottentot and Bushmen people are considered to be the oldest African populations"

"Thus, it is very likely that the Upper Palaeolithic population of Nubia derives from the indigenous African population. The Mesolithic series also shows significant similarities to Northwest Africa (Toforalt, Afalou) and to predynastic series from Upper Egypt (Abydos, Naqada)."

"Starting from the Late Neolithic (A-Group, C-Group, Kerma) similarities between the Nubians and the populations of Northeast Africa (Maadi, Wadi Digla, Badari, Abydos, Naqada) and Asia (Ur, Hissar II, Turkestan; modern Indian groups Dravidians, Tamils, Kolarians) became even more distinct, which may prove the existence of strong ties derived probably from influx of the Caucasoids from the regions of Levant, Mesopotamia, and India. They were coming to Nubia through the Sinai Peninsula, but probably also through the south Saudi Arabia. The Kerma series from Upper Nubia shows particular similarities to the present-day Indian series."

"The Late Neolithic series are also related to Northwest Africa (Mechta el Arbi, Asselar) and to the present-day Western Africa (Gabon, region of the Congo River). This fact should be most probably associated with the influx of the Mesolithic population of the Mechta type from Northwest Africa."

Also genetic evidence for Capoid origin in north-east Africa

http://backintyme.com/admixture/cruciani01.pdf

"Phylogeographic analyses suggest that a large component of the present Khoisan gene pool is eastern African in origin and that Asia was the source of a back migration to sub-Saharan Africa. Haplogroup IX Y chromosomes appear to have been involved in such a migration, the traces of which can now be observed mostly in northern Cameroon."
Edited by faintsmile1992, Sep 17 2011, 04:01 PM.
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Sep 17 2011, 01:05 PM
reddy
Sep 16 2011, 07:27 PM
From 2008, which comes after 2007:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-04/cshl-sry032608.php

Simple. Problem solved for you. Haplogroup E is an AFRICAN gene, no question.

Your source doesn't say that E originated in Africa.

Anyway, 2009 comes after 2008, and it's now more certain that DE originated in Asia:

[blockquote]"This model proposes the successful colonization of Eurasia by migration(s) of populations containing precursor Y-chromosome founder macrohaplogroup CDET-M168 and basal mtDNA L3 representatives. Regions near but external to northeast Africa, like the Levant or the southern Arabian Peninsula could have served as an incubator for the early diversification of non-African uniparental haplogroup varieties like Y chromosome DE-YAP*, CF-P143* and mtDNA M and N molecular ancestors. These would have spread globally and diversified over time and space. This model would imply that both CF-P143 and the DE-YAP evolved nearby but outside Africa."

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/10/59 [/blockquote]
Which in turn has made the origin of E uncertain:

[blockquote]"The similarity of patterns of different mutants indicates some secondary expansions. It is also interesting to sum the distributions of different haplogroups descending from the same mutation, as for example D and E, which both descend from DE-YAP, the first mutation that split into the E branch that perhaps returned to Africa (or arose there), whereas the other branch, D, is found today mainly in the Himalayas and Japan."

http://www.pnas.org/content/106/48/20174.full [/blockquote]
Hmmm..interesting study...but it's a fringe (non majority) opinion that haplogroup E originated outside of Africa (or that nubia was originally caucasoid)... dude you can't use a few fringe studies that radically disagrees with the consensus and pass it off as the authoritative truth...shall I find the one accountant in the CBO who believes the American Government is in a surplus and treat his opinion like its the truth?

:lol:
Quote:
 
Nubia was never 'Negroid', however they did have Capoid affinities


Hmmm..Capoid, yea Capoid=Black. Physical phenotype that's indigenous to the African continent= Black. Bushmen (The "Capoids" I assume you're referring to) are black and would be identified as such by virtually any laymen, so let's not split hairs shall we??

Quote:
 
And Nubia has experienced Caucasoid or Europoid immigration from outside Nubia.


Of course it has, but this "Caucasoid immigration" happened during only the last millenium or so (during the gradual arabization of the northern part of the country) , not during ancient or prehistoric times as you want to think :D

Quote:
 
Starting from the Late Neolithic (A-Group, C-Group, Kerma) similarities between the Nubians and the populations of Northeast Africa (Maadi, Wadi Digla, Badari, Abydos, Naqada) and Asia (Ur, Hissar II, Turkestan; modern Indian groups Dravidians, Tamils, Kolarians) became even more distinct, which may prove the existence of strong ties derived probably from influx of the Caucasoids from the regions of Levant, Mesopotamia, and India. They were coming to Nubia through the Sinai Peninsula, but probably also through the south Saudi Arabia. The Kerma series from Upper Nubia shows particular similarities to the present-day Indian series.


Hmmm...similarities with Dravidians & Tamils you say? Two dark-skinned, quasi-negroid (well, Australoid in classical anthropological terms, geez all these racial terms) peoples who live in tropical climates?? Wow who woulda guessed?! Hmm I don't need a science paper to tell me what's already common sense bud...

And btw...you do know that the paper also mentions a "Mongoloid element" in ancient Nubia right?? You want to believe nubia was part mongoloid as well??

Quote:
 
"The Late Neolithic series are also related to Northwest Africa (Mechta el Arbi, Asselar) and to the present-day Western Africa (Gabon, region of the Congo River). This fact should be most probably associated with the influx of the Mesolithic population of the Mechta type from Northwest Africa


Hmm...i bet you glossed over the bolded part.. :eek:
Edited by Jprezy87, Sep 17 2011, 09:33 PM.
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