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Could he pass as 100% European?
Topic Started: May 8 2011, 06:59 PM (14,332 Views)
Euskal kubatarrak
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memobekes
May 10 2011, 12:26 PM
Consider, for example, the plate below. He is a Sami and instead of me having to give you the lowdown on his facial details, let's read what Carleton S. Coon has to say:
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[blockquote]This 18 year old Norwegian Lapp boy possesses all of the most characteristically Lappish features of the face: a shallow mandible; a pointed, retreating chin; a lateral malar prominence; facial prognathism; a pointed and elevated nasal tip; and a low nasal bridge.[/blockquote]
Yet the extended mandible is far more common in Caucasoids and Mongoloids than in Negroids. You seem to have a hard time grasping the concept that not all types of prognathism indicate nonEuropean admixture. There is difference between this:

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And this:

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In fact ever heard of this:

Pathologic mandibular prognathism is a potentially disfiguring, genetic disorder where the lower jaw outgrows the upper, resulting in an extended chin.
The condition is colloquially known as Habsburg jaw, Habsburg lip or Austrian Lip (see House of Habsburg) due to its prevalence in that bloodline.[4] The trait is easily traceable in portraits of Habsburg family members.[5] This has provided tools for people interested in studying genetics and pedigree analysis. Most instances are considered polygenetic.


Memobekes
 
There you have it. Even among part Europid people, quite often than not, the prognathic trait is inherited from a non-Caucasoid background. Moreover, who's to say that Jay Leno does not have a non-Europid parent? Actually he may even have native blood in him judging by his facial traits. Regards.


You should really inform yourself before speaking:

Quote:
 
Jay Leno was born in New Rochelle, New York, on April 28, 1950. His mother, Catherine (née Muir) (1911–1993), a homemaker, was born in Greenock, Scotland, and came to the United States at age 11. Her schooling was limited and as a result she prized her children's successes. Leno's father, Angelo (1910–1994), who worked as an insurance salesman, was born in New York to immigrants from Flumeri, Italy.[4]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Leno

So as you can see he has neither native blood nor does he have any East European/Baltic conection, so your assumptions fail yet again.
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.lin
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memobekes
May 10 2011, 12:26 PM
Consider, for example, the plate below. He is a Sami and instead of me having to give you the lowdown on his facial details, let's read what Carleton S. Coon has to say:
[blockquote]This 18 year old Norwegian Lapp boy possesses all of the most characteristically Lappish features of the face: a shallow mandible; a pointed, retreating chin; a lateral malar prominence; facial prognathism; a pointed and elevated nasal tip; and a low nasal bridge.[/blockquote]There you have it. Even among part Europid people, quite often than not, the prognathic trait is inherited from a non-Caucasoid background.
Your claims are not supported by the sources you quote - I don't seem to be able to see where it says that prognathism is not a European trait. Furthermore, Crimson has actually provided quotes which refute your claim about prognathism being specifically "a "Negrid" specialisation".

FYI, Sami people are predominantly European.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18478041?dopt=AbstractPlus
 
Admixture analyses indicate that 87% of the Sami gene pool is of European origin and that the Asian contribution is 13%.


memobekes
 
Moreover, who's to say that Jay Leno does not have a non-Europid parent? Actually he may even have native blood in him judging by his facial traits. Regards.
Even if he had some non-european ancestors, that would be quite irrelevant because it just so happens that his type of prognathism - that is Mandibular/Concave - peaks precisely in European population:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prognathism#Mandibular_prognathism_.28progenism.29
 
Pathologic mandibular prognathism is a potentially disfiguring, genetic disorder where the lower jaw outgrows the upper, resulting in an extended chin.
The condition is colloquially known as Habsburg jaw, Habsburg lip or Austrian Lip (see House of Habsburg) due to its prevalence in that bloodline. The trait is easily traceable in portraits of Habsburg family members. This has provided tools for people interested in studying genetics and pedigree analysis. Most instances are considered polygenetic.

It is alleged to have been derived through a female from the princely Polish family of Piasts, its Masovian branch. The deformation of lips is clearly visible on tomb sculptures of Mazovian Piasts in the St. John's Cathedral in Warsaw. However this may be, there exists evidence that the trait is longstanding. It is perhaps first observed in Maximilian I (1459–1519).
Edited by .lin, May 10 2011, 01:19 PM.
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Mirror
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he doesnt look european at all, if you do he vs eva longoria, eva longoria would look more euro than him and eva is just 70% or 75% white. he must be then maybe 60% white, 30% amerindian, 10% black????
ps: eva is extremly pretty!
ps2: l think j-lo is also pretty.
Edited by Mirror, May 10 2011, 01:30 PM.
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zeta
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He does not have facial prognathism. Just his jaw is long and that is found amongst a lot of Scottish type of people and in other Europeans too. He does not have anything non-European in him.

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Edited by zeta, May 11 2011, 03:31 AM.
This is Dinarid. If they don't look like this, then they ain't Dinarid.
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.lin
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zeta
May 11 2011, 03:28 AM
He does not have facial prognathism.
You already said that, in your opinion, the term prognathism should be made to mean something different than it was originally supposed to mean and what it still means. But until you have embarked upon a worldwide campaign to make this happen, Jay Leno DOES have facial prognathism. Denying it after I have posted all those sources confirming it, is plain daft. C'mon, zeta, you're better than that, aren't you?

The fact that mandibular prognathism is perfectly within the European variation does not change the fact that it is prognathism.
zeta
 
Just his jaw is long and that is found amongst a lot of Scottish type of people and in other Europeans too. He does not have anything non-European in him.
Longer than normal lower jaw is precisely what means mandibular prognathism:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003026.htm
 

Prognathism is an extension or bulging out (protrusion) of the lower jaw (mandible) that occurs when the shape of the face bones cause the teeth to be improperly lined up (misaligned).
Edited by .lin, May 11 2011, 02:04 PM.
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Crimson Guard
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Quote:
 
There you have it. Even among part Europid people, quite often than not, the prognathic trait is inherited from a non-Caucasoid background. Moreover, who's to say that Jay Leno does not have a non-Europid parent? Actually he may even have native blood in him judging by his facial traits. Regards.


Man stop making up nonsense, and the Irish have a noted degree of Prognathism and they are neither partly Negroid nor partly Mongoloid:

[blockquote]The nasal wings are almost uniformly medium in lateral extension; compressed and flaring forms are about equal in number and together form but 10 per cent of the whole. The distribution of these is of no importance, except that the most compressed are found in the Aran Isles. The lips are as a rule of moderate thickness and eversion; very thin, straight or convex lips are not uncommon, particularly in the south; while very thick or very everted lips are not found anywhere. The lips and the whole mouth region are sometimes, however, thrown into prominence by the presence of facial prognathism; this occurs in 8 per cent of the whole, while purely alveolar prognathism is found in but 2 per cent. There is a strong regional differentiation in both kinds of prognathism, however; the center of concentration is in the eastern counties, from Armagh to Waterford; facial prognathism reaches its maximum of 24 per cent in Wicklow and Carlow. It is interesting to note that the counties which show the maximum of Upper Palaeolithic features are the least prognathous of all, and that the Protestants show it more frequently, to a slight degree, than do the Catholics.[/blockquote]

[blockquote]It is impossible at present to define with equal clarity the two minor types; the Atlanto-Mediterranean element, if it were brown eyed and black haired, has completely lost its original pigment qualities through mixture. Yet "Mediterranean" types can be isolated in Ireland, and one may perhaps ascribe to them the occurrance of prognathism and some of the curly hair.[/blockquote]

As I said before, its also considered a primitive trait(supposed possibly carried over from Neanderthal):

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-The human lineage By Matt Cartmill, Fred H. Smith



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