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Haplogroup E1b1a (Y-DNA); North african origins CRUCIANI ET 2009
Topic Started: Jan 11 2010, 11:49 PM (14,602 Views)
samysamy25
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Haplogroup E1b1a (Y-DNA)

In human genetics, Haplogroup E1b1a (M2) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup. From 2002 to 2008, it was known as Haplogroup E3a.

It can also be referred to with mutational nomenclature as E-M2.

It is sometime associated with Haplotype IV from Ngo and Lucotte nomenclature however it is not proved and the clues are weak.


Haplogroup E1b1a is the main haplogroup in sub-Saharan Africa, where it reaches frequencies of over 80% in West Africa. It has been hypothesized that E1b1a originated in Northern Africa and then spread to sub-Saharan Africa with the Bantu expansion. However, Rosa et al. (2007) and others suggest that it likely originated in and expanded from West Africa (i.e., the Sudanese Belt) within the last 20,000 to 30,000 years based on the fact that the frequency and diversity of E1b1a in this region are among the highest found. E-M2 is considered to be the signature Y-DNA for the Bantu expansion, however, it should be considered the signature y-DNA for the Niger-Congo phylum or language, which means that E1b1a was probably the most common chromosome in West Africa when the Niger-Congo language emerged at least 15,000 YBP(years before present).

Posted Image


Distribution

There exists a west-to-east as well as a south-to-north clinal distribution with respect to E1b1a, in other words, the diversity and frequency increases as you move from East and North Africa to West and Southern Africa. . This is why it is observed in low frequencies in the Horn of Africa, North Africa, and Southwest Asia, where the E1b1b haplogroup has its highest frequencies, and its small presence in those areas is generally attributed to the slave trade and/or the Bantu expansion.

ubclades of E1b1a

E1b1a is the single most common Y-chromosome haplogroup among people of Sub-Saharan African descent both inside and outside of Africa. It is observed at frequencies of 58%-60% in African Americans.The E1b1a subclades E1b1a7 and E1b1a8 are widely found throughout sub-saharan Africans. However, according to Karafet, E1b1a9 has been found only in one Gambian. The haplogroups E1b1a2, E1b1a3, E1b1a4, E1b1a5, and E1b1a6 are quite uncommon as well

Tree

This phylogenetic tree of haplogroup subclades is based on the YCC 2008 tree and subsequent published research.

* E1b1a (M2, P1, M180 [P88], P46, P182, P189, P211, P293)
o E1b1a1 (M58)
o E1b1a2 (M116.2)
o E1b1a3 (M149)
o E1b1a4 (M154)
o E1b1a5 (M155)
o E1b1a6 (M10, M66, M156, M195)
o E1b1a7 (M191/P86, U186, P253/U247)
+ E1b1a7a (P252/U174)
# E1b1a7a1 (P9.2)
# E1b1a7a2 (P115)
# E1b1a7a3 (P116)
* E1b1a7a3a (P113)
o E1b1a8 (U175)
+ E1b1a8a (U209, P277, P278)
# E1b1a8a1 (U290)
* E1b1a8a1a (U181)
# E1b1a8a2 (P59)
o E1b1a9 (P268, P269)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1a_%28Y-DNA%29

Edited by samysamy25, Jan 12 2010, 07:04 PM.
Arabs And East African Sub-Saharan Ancestory

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Flashrad
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in this study, if i remember, northeast africa was reffered to libya and egypt.
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four
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Flashrad
Jan 12 2010, 12:19 AM
in this study, if i remember, northeast africa was reffered to libya and egypt.
Not this marker. You are speaking of E-M78* Which is downstream of "E-M35" (That you see on the chart).

The only person that I can think of that said E3a (E-M2) had an origin in North Africa was Shomarka Keita. I will have to dig up the article but He claims it has an origin in the Nile Valley where it would found in high frequency (Lucotte et al.) and disbursed to the West (in the Holocene) and then to the South East much much later with the Bantu expansion. That is why some of the high frequencies in West Africa speak no Bantu languages. I also note that Some take Niger Kordofanian to be a branch of Nilo Saharan.

But my point still stands.
Looking at the Chart posted by Samysamy25:
Posted Image


-Sub saharan Africans have E1a - found highest in the Mali, Cameroon, and other Western Sub saharan countries...........Abstent to RARE amongst North Africans. Source

-Sub Saharan Africans have E2 - It is found the HIGHEST smack dab in the middle of Africa - CONGO @ 67% Its also found all across sub saharan Africa........Abstent to RARE amongst North Africans. source

-E1b1 on the chart is the Mutation that JOINS E3a and E3b [E-M2 and E-M35]. This is the mutation that basically JOINS east and west Africa.............Ethiopians have it in ancestral form as high as 18%..........It is ABSENT amongst North Africans. Source Source

-From this mutations comes E1b1b1* (M35) - Ethiopians carry the Ancestral markers somewhere around 17%............It is Abstent to RARE amongst North Africans.


The Markers E-M78 and E-M81 are MUTATIONS of the E1b1b1*(M35) that is found in Ethiopia at 17% which comes FROM a mutation of E1b1* which is found in Ethiopia around 18%..........This has nothing to do with people being "Black" nor does it have anything to do with "Afrocentric." This is the data that the studies show. The data overwhelmingly support a migration of E-M35 males from Sub Saharan East Africa North into Egypt/Sudan and then a Western Push from there into the Maghreb. Also a Southward push of sub clade E-M293 that is ONLY found in Sub Saharan Africa as far south as South Africa.


Edited by four, Jan 12 2010, 02:14 AM.
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samysamy25
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:rolleyes: Interesting the frequencies of E-M35 in North west AFRICA also in all North africa, Europe and middle east than sub-saharan countries !!!
but for E1a is only founded in Mali Not only in other sub-saharan countries !!! mali is near 3 caucasian african countries ;)

Posted Image

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181965/figure/FG1/
four
Jan 12 2010, 02:12 AM
Flashrad
Jan 12 2010, 12:19 AM
in this study, if i remember, northeast africa was reffered to libya and egypt.
Not this marker. You are speaking of E-M78* Which is downstream of "E-M35" (That you see on the chart).

The only person that I can think of that said E3a (E-M2) had an origin in North Africa was Shomarka Keita. I will have to dig up the article but He claims it has an origin in the Nile Valley where it would found in high frequency (Lucotte et al.) and disbursed to the West (in the Holocene) and then to the South East much much later with the Bantu expansion. That is why some of the high frequencies in West Africa speak no Bantu languages. I also note that Some take Niger Kordofanian to be a branch of Nilo Saharan.

But my point still stands.
Looking at the Chart posted by Samysamy25:
Posted Image


-Sub saharan Africans have E1a - found highest in the Mali, Cameroon, and other Western Sub saharan countries...........Abstent to RARE amongst North Africans. Source

-Sub Saharan Africans have E2 - It is found the HIGHEST smack dab in the middle of Africa - CONGO @ 67% Its also found all across sub saharan Africa........Abstent to RARE amongst North Africans. source

-E1b1 on the chart is the Mutation that JOINS E3a and E3b [E-M2 and E-M35]. This is the mutation that basically JOINS east and west Africa.............Ethiopians have it in ancestral form as high as 18%..........It is ABSENT amongst North Africans. Source Source

-From this mutations comes E1b1b1* (M35) - Ethiopians carry the Ancestral markers somewhere around 17%............It is Abstent to RARE amongst North Africans.


The Markers E-M78 and E-M81 are MUTATIONS of the E1b1b1*(M35) that is found in Ethiopia at 17% which comes FROM a mutation of E1b1* which is found in Ethiopia around 18%..........This has nothing to do with people being "Black" nor does it have anything to do with "Afrocentric." This is the data that the studies show. The data overwhelmingly support a migration of E-M35 males from Sub Saharan East Africa North into Egypt/Sudan and then a Western Push from there into the Maghreb. Also a Southward push of sub clade E-M293 that is ONLY found in Sub Saharan Africa as far south as South Africa.


again 4 u r OUT of topic according to Cruciani ISOGG 2009

Y-DNA haplogroup E would appear to have arisen in Northeast Africa (Egypt /Libya) based on the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration.E1b1 is by far the lineage of greatest geographical distribution. It has two important sub-lineages, E1b1a and E1b1b. E1b1a is an African lineage that probably expanded from northern African to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion. E1b1a is the most common lineage among African Americans. E1b1b1 probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west--both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. Eb1b1 clusters are seen today in Western Europe, Southeast Europe, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa. The Cruciani articles (references and links below) are indispensable resources for understanding the structure of this complicated haplogroup, but note that the Cruciani haplogroup labels are now superseded because of the recently discovered new SNPS that lie closer to the root of the E branch of the Y-haplogroup Tree.

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE09.html

:lol: and keep dreaming with your sub-saharid origins ,this is Cruciani Not you ;)
Edited by samysamy25, Jan 12 2010, 02:14 PM.
Arabs And East African Sub-Saharan Ancestory

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four
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samysamy25
Jan 12 2010, 01:46 PM
:rolleyes: Interesting the frequencies of E-M35 in North west AFRICA also in all North africa, Europe and middle east than sub-saharan countries !!!
but for E1a is only founded in Mali Not only in other sub-saharan countries !!! mali is near 3 caucasian african countries ;)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1181965/figure/FG1/
four
Jan 12 2010, 02:12 AM
Flashrad
Jan 12 2010, 12:19 AM
in this study, if i remember, northeast africa was reffered to libya and egypt.
Not this marker. You are speaking of E-M78* Which is downstream of "E-M35" (That you see on the chart).

The only person that I can think of that said E3a (E-M2) had an origin in North Africa was Shomarka Keita. I will have to dig up the article but He claims it has an origin in the Nile Valley where it would found in high frequency (Lucotte et al.) and disbursed to the West (in the Holocene) and then to the South East much much later with the Bantu expansion. That is why some of the high frequencies in West Africa speak no Bantu languages. I also note that Some take Niger Kordofanian to be a branch of Nilo Saharan.

But my point still stands.
Looking at the Chart posted by Samysamy25:
Posted Image


-Sub saharan Africans have E1a - found highest in the Mali, Cameroon, and other Western Sub saharan countries...........Abstent to RARE amongst North Africans. Source

-Sub Saharan Africans have E2 - It is found the HIGHEST smack dab in the middle of Africa - CONGO @ 67% Its also found all across sub saharan Africa........Abstent to RARE amongst North Africans. source

-E1b1 on the chart is the Mutation that JOINS E3a and E3b [E-M2 and E-M35]. This is the mutation that basically JOINS east and west Africa.............Ethiopians have it in ancestral form as high as 18%..........It is ABSENT amongst North Africans. Source Source

-From this mutations comes E1b1b1* (M35) - Ethiopians carry the Ancestral markers somewhere around 17%............It is Abstent to RARE amongst North Africans.


The Markers E-M78 and E-M81 are MUTATIONS of the E1b1b1*(M35) that is found in Ethiopia at 17% which comes FROM a mutation of E1b1* which is found in Ethiopia around 18%..........This has nothing to do with people being "Black" nor does it have anything to do with "Afrocentric." This is the data that the studies show. The data overwhelmingly support a migration of E-M35 males from Sub Saharan East Africa North into Egypt/Sudan and then a Western Push from there into the Maghreb. Also a Southward push of sub clade E-M293 that is ONLY found in Sub Saharan Africa as far south as South Africa.


again 4 u r OUT of topic according to Cruciani ISOGG 2009

Y-DNA haplogroup E would appear to have arisen in Northeast Africa (Egypt /Libya) based on the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But the fact that Haplogroup E is closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, leaves open the possibility that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration.E1b1 is by far the lineage of greatest geographical distribution. It has two important sub-lineages, E1b1a and E1b1b. E1b1a is an African lineage that probably expanded from northern African to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion. E1b1a is the most common lineage among African Americans. E1b1b1 probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west--both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. Eb1b1 clusters are seen today in Western Europe, Southeast Europe, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa. The Cruciani articles (references and links below) are indispensable resources for understanding the structure of this complicated haplogroup, but note that the Cruciani haplogroup labels are now superseded because of the recently discovered new SNPS that lie closer to the root of the E branch of the Y-haplogroup Tree.

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE09.html

:lol: and keep dreaming with your sub-saharid origins ,this is Cruciani Not you ;)
FIRST

So now you just pull quotes directly out of your ass? "North East Africa" in this case is NOT Egypt/LIBYA it is Ethiopia. Cruciani stated the origin of E-M78 in "Egypt/LIBYA" not E-M35.

YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT A "BASAL" OR "ANCESTRAL CLADE" IS.
I can only argue with my equals so i am going to have to TEACH YOU:

M35* is an ancestral clade. When you see the defining marker "M35" with the "*" After it this means that the sample that they have found contains NO KNOWN SUB MUTATION. It isn't M81, V6, M78, M123 etc. It is either PURE - OR it is a subclade that has YET TO BE DEFINED.

Not too long ago E-M35* was found in high frequency in SOUTH AFRICA, Tanzania, etc. After further resolution that E-M35 turned out to be a NEW marker called E-M293.

Looking at the Image Here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/E1b1b_phylogeny.png/400px-E1b1b_phylogeny.png

-Ethiopians STILL have a High 17% of ANCESTRAL or "PURE" E1b1b1* (M35) on the Chart. M35 is the PRECURSOR of both Em81 AND Em78.

-Ethiopians STILL have a High 18% of ANCESTRAL or "PURE" E1b1* which is called "P2" or was once called E3* This is the "E3" that UNITES and fathered "E3a" and "E3b" - This is the "PRECURSOR OF THE PRECURSOR" OF Em81 AND Em78. NORTH AFRICANS DONT HAVE THIS MARKER.

_

Secondly
E-M33 or E1a is found all across Saharan Africa. It is CONCENTRATED in West Africa. Any Ethnic group KNOWN to have migrated FROM West Africa but now lives in Central or East Africa carries this signatuture. Read the SOURCE It is found in Mali, Cameroon, Guinea-Bissau, Senegal, Senegambia, Burkina Faso, Nigeria, Sudan, [and probably Chad and Niger] all near or over 10% peaking at 53% in Cameroon. MY source says YOU ARE WRONG! E1a or E-M33 in North African countries is RARE TO NON-EXISTENT. How can north Africans give Sub Saharan Africans something THEY DONT EVEN HAVE? That is like you tell me WHITE PEOPLE gave Africans dark skin and nappy hair. :nuts:

You still have provided ZERO PROOF.

And Looking at the chart here:
Posted Image

Notice IMAGES "E"(M78) "F"(M81) and "G"(M123)

ALL of these lineages come from PURE E3b*
Pure E3b* is rare to non-existant in North Africa but 17% in Sub Saharan East Africa
Pure E3b* comes from Pure E3*, which is rare to non-existant in North Africa but 18% in Sub Saharan East Africa. Cut the Bias BS and wrap your hands around these FACTS!

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samysamy25
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typical black monkey ! keep misinforming the genetic papers by ur own sub-saharid theories
North east africa is southern Egypt and Libya Not horn africa !!! retards

Cruciani said :
E1b1b1 probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west--both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. Eb1b1 clusters are seen today in Western Europe, Southeast Europe, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa.

and shet up when u discuss with ur masters ,u dirty slave ;)

Attached to this post:
Attachments: E1b1a_M2.bmp (406.18 KB)
Edited by samysamy25, Jan 12 2010, 06:24 PM.
Arabs And East African Sub-Saharan Ancestory

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four
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samysamy25
Jan 12 2010, 05:41 PM
typical black monkey ! keep misinforming the genetic papers by ur own sub-saharid theories
North east africa is southern Egypt and Libya Not horn africa !!! retards

Cruciani said :
E1b1b1 probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west--both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. Eb1b1 clusters are seen today in Western Europe, Southeast Europe, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa.

and shet up when u discuss with ur masters ,u dirty slave ;)
Please quote Cruciani:

Quote:
 
Recently, it has been proposed that E3b
originated in sub-Saharan Africa and expanded into the
Near East and northern Africa at the end of the Pleistocene


QUESTION

Quote:
 
In the present study, we address the question of the
origin and dispersal of haplogroup E3b subclades within
and outside of Africa by analyzing 3,401 individuals
from five continents.


CONCLUSION:

Quote:
 
We obtained an estimate of 25.6 thousand years (ky)
(95% CI 24.3–27.4 ky) for the TMRCA of the 509
haplogroup E3b chromosomes, which is close to the
306 ky estimate for the age of the M35 mutation
reported by Bosch et al. (2001) using a different method.
Several observations point to eastern Africa as the homeland
for haplogroup E3b—that is, it had (1) the highest
number of different E3b clades (table 1), (2) a high frequency
of this haplogroup and a high microsatellite diversity,
and, finally, (3) the exclusive presence of the undifferentiated
E3b* paragroup.

SOURCE !

And Ethiopians had the Paragroup E3b* at 17% and the precursor TO the paragroup E3* at 18%.


See also Semino 2004 - You should take the time to READ the study that you took the image from:

Quote:
 
Both phylogeography and microsatellite variance suggest that E-P2 and its derivative, E-M35, probably originated in eastern Africa. This inference is further supported by the presence of additional Hg E lineal diversification and by the highest frequency of E-P2* and E-M35* in the same region. The distribution of E-P2* appears limited to eastern African peoples. The E-M35* lineage shows its highest frequency (19.2%) in the Ethiopian Oromo but with a wider distribution range than E-P2*


SOURCE

The Phylogentic TREE is like this:
E-P2 -----> E-M35 ------> E-M78

E-P2 and E-M35 have an origin in East Africa. E-M78 was given an origin in East Africa by Cruciani in 2004 BUT Cruciani LATER change the origin to Egypt/Libya based on Egypt having older M78 mutations than Ethiopia.

You are correct when you say some East Africans have Ancestry from Sudan/Nubia. BUT that is back migrated Ancestry as the M78 lineage from Egypt come FROM M35 markers FROM Ethiopia. That is why its called "BI-DIRECTIONAL migration" via the Nile Valley.

Where are you quoting from any STUDY? Where are you links to the actual STUDIES? You dont provide anything but your opinion and that itself is LACKING in understanding of the FACTS. Get off your bias high horse. You are providing NO evidence NOR any alternative view. How dare you call someone a slave. You barely know how to read and show pictures from studies that disprove what you are saying. Stop pulling quotes out of your vagina and attributing them to Cruciani.
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samysamy25
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four
Jan 12 2010, 06:22 PM
samysamy25
Jan 12 2010, 05:41 PM
typical black monkey ! keep misinforming the genetic papers by ur own sub-saharid theories
North east africa is southern Egypt and Libya Not horn africa !!! retards

Cruciani said :
E1b1b1 probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west--both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. Eb1b1 clusters are seen today in Western Europe, Southeast Europe, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa.

and shet up when u discuss with ur masters ,u dirty slave ;)
Please quote Cruciani:

Quote:
 
Recently, it has been proposed that E3b
originated in sub-Saharan Africa and expanded into the
Near East and northern Africa at the end of the Pleistocene


QUESTION

Quote:
 
In the present study, we address the question of the
origin and dispersal of haplogroup E3b subclades within
and outside of Africa by analyzing 3,401 individuals
from five continents.


CONCLUSION:

Quote:
 
We obtained an estimate of 25.6 thousand years (ky)
(95% CI 24.3–27.4 ky) for the TMRCA of the 509
haplogroup E3b chromosomes, which is close to the
306 ky estimate for the age of the M35 mutation
reported by Bosch et al. (2001) using a different method.
Several observations point to eastern Africa as the homeland
for haplogroup E3b—that is, it had (1) the highest
number of different E3b clades (table 1), (2) a high frequency
of this haplogroup and a high microsatellite diversity,
and, finally, (3) the exclusive presence of the undifferentiated
E3b* paragroup.

SOURCE !

And Ethiopians had the Paragroup E3b* at 17% and the precursor TO the paragroup E3* at 18%.


See also Semino 2004 - You should take the time to READ the study that you took the image from:

Quote:
 
Both phylogeography and microsatellite variance suggest that E-P2 and its derivative, E-M35, probably originated in eastern Africa. This inference is further supported by the presence of additional Hg E lineal diversification and by the highest frequency of E-P2* and E-M35* in the same region. The distribution of E-P2* appears limited to eastern African peoples. The E-M35* lineage shows its highest frequency (19.2%) in the Ethiopian Oromo but with a wider distribution range than E-P2*


SOURCE

The Phylogentic TREE is like this:
E-P2 -----> E-M35 ------> E-M78

E-P2 and E-M35 have an origin in East Africa. E-M78 was given an origin in East Africa by Cruciani in 2004 BUT Cruciani LATER change the origin to Egypt/Libya based on Egypt having older M78 mutations than Ethiopia.

You are correct when you say some East Africans have Ancestry from Sudan/Nubia. BUT that is back migrated Ancestry as the M78 lineage from Egypt come FROM M35 markers FROM Ethiopia. That is why its called "BI-DIRECTIONAL migration" via the Nile Valley.

Where are you quoting from any STUDY? Where are you links to the actual STUDIES? You dont provide anything but your opinion and that itself is LACKING in understanding of the FACTS. Get off your bias high horse. You are providing NO evidence NOR any alternative view. How dare you call someone a slave. You barely know how to read and show pictures from studies that disprove what you are saying. Stop pulling quotes out of your vagina and attributing them to Cruciani.

Look at the map !! is E1b1a ur bantuid markers of sub-saharan Horn african origins ??????
OR FROM southern Libya and Egypt (Nort east africa) or the near east :lol:


Posted Image

http://z3.ifrm.com/67/29/0/p274187/E1b1a_M2.bmp

Genetic and Demographic Implications of the Bantu Expansion: Insights from Human Paternal Lineages
Accepted for publication March 30, 2009.

The expansion of Bantu languages, which started around 5,000 years before present in west/central Africa and spread all throughout sub-Saharan Africa, may represent one of the major and most rapid demographic movements in the history of the human species. Although the genetic footprints of this expansion have been unmasked through the analyses of the maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA lineages, information on the genetic impact of this massive movement and on the genetic composition of pre-Bantu populations is still scarce.

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/7/1581


Expansion times and their standard deviations were calculated using eleven STRs (DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389II DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS437, DYS438, DYS439, DYS460), whose mutation rates have been individually estimated (Gusmao et al. 2005). The allelic variance of each STR was divided by the estimated mutation rate, and the mean of the variances was multiplied by 25 (intergeneration time in years).


The main haplogroups found were:

Specifically, most of these lineages have been associated either to Bantu-speaking people - E1b1a (E3a according to The Y Chromosome Consortium (2002)), B2a, and E2 - or to Pygmy populations (haplogroup B2b). We also observed traces of haplogroups A, E*, E1a, and E1b1b1a (E3b1 according to The Y Chromosome Consortium (2002)), which are found at low frequencies across the African continent (Underhill et al. 2000; Underhill et al. 2001; Cruciani et al. 2002; Wood et al. 2005). Interestingly, almost 5% of the individuals here analyzed belonged to Eurasian haplogroup R1b1*.


If a correct mutation rate is used and a star-like signal of expansion is visible, then, not surprisingly, archaeology does correlate with haplogroup expansion:


The expansion date of the E1b1a haplogroup was estimated at 5,800 years (SD 7,200), in agreement with the expansion of Bantu languages.


The R1b1*-in-Africa mystery thickens. At first, these typically Eurasian chromosomes had been found in Cameroon, but they seem to be found in many populations


A remarkable finding of our study is the substantial number of individuals belonging to haplogroup R1b1* (5.2%). Surprisingly, it has been previously observed in northern Cameroon (40%) at high frequencies (Cruciani et al. 2002), and at lower frequencies in southern Cameroon (1.12%) (Cruciani et al. 2002), Oman (1%), Egypt
(2%), Hutu from Rwanda (1%) (Luis et al. 2004). The presence of this lineage in Africa has been claimed to be a genetic signature of a possible backflow migration from west Asia into Africa (Cruciani et al. 2002). Here we observe R1b1* in 12 Bantu
agriculturalist populations (ranging from 2% to 20%) and in two Pygmy individuals. A
network of R1b1* haplotypes performed using STR-data (Figure 2) shows two main
clusters, without any population structure. Interestingly, the estimated expansion time for these haplotypes – 7,000 years (SD 8,100) - precedes the time at which the Bantu expansion occurred.

...

It is noteworthy that the Fang population is the Bantu agriculturalist group presenting the highest frequency of R1b1*. The presence of the Fang in west Central Africa appears to be recent and they 20 are thought to have entered the region from the north-eastern open grassland plateau during the 17th and 18th centuries (Perrois 2006).


It would certainly be worthwhile for R1b1 experts to take a look at the haplotypes found in the region (Supplementary Table 1), and to see how they are related to R1b1 elsewhere.

Molecular Biology and Evolution, doi:10.1093/molbev/msp069

Genetic and demographic implications of the Bantu expansion: insights from human paternal lineages

Gemma Berniell-Lee et al.

Abstract

The expansion of Bantu languages, which started around 5,000 years before present (YBP) in west/central Africa and spread all throughout sub-Saharan Africa, may represent one of the major and most rapid demographic movements in the history of the human species. Although the genetic footprints of this expansion have been unmasked through the analyses of the maternally-inherited mitochondrial (mtDNA) lineages, information on the genetic impact of this massive movement and on the genetic composition of pre-Bantu populations is still scarce. Here we analyze an extensive collection of Y-chromosome markers - 41 SNPs and 18 STRs - in 883 individuals from 22 Bantu-speaking agriculturalist populations and 3 Pygmy hunter-gatherer populations from Gabon and Cameroon. Our data reveal a recent origin for most paternal lineages in west Central African populations most likely resulting from the expansion of Bantu-speaking farmers that erased the more ancient Y-chromosome diversity found in this area. However, some traces of ancient paternal lineages are observed in these populations, mainly among hunter-gatherers. These results are at odds with those obtained from mtDNA analyses, where high frequencies of ancient maternal lineages are observed, and substantial maternal gene flow from hunter-gatherers to Bantu farmers has been suggested. These differences are most likely explained by socio-cultural factors such as patrilocality. We also find the intriguing presence of paternal lineages belonging to Eurasian haplogroup R1b1*, which might represent footprints of demographic expansions in central Africa not directly related to the Bantu expansion.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/04/paternal-traces-of-bantu-expansion.html


Edited by samysamy25, Jan 12 2010, 06:31 PM.
Arabs And East African Sub-Saharan Ancestory

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four
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samysamy25
Jan 12 2010, 06:24 PM
:poop:
More diversion. Where did you get the Cruciani quote from? Put up or SHUT UP kid.

Posted Image

Are you implying that Bantu come from Egypto-Sudanese Nile Valley? M2 has an origin in Egypt and travels South West bringing Niger Kordofanian from the Kordofanian area. Then a later migration of M2 from West Central Africa bringing the Bantu sub family of the Niger Kodofanian family into Souther East and West Africa. It could make sense. This is what Shomarka Keits says. In your case does that mean that Bantu Descend from Egyptians? I think you must be the biggest Afrocentrists.


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Flashrad
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e1a was found in guanches, while e1b1a not. how can you explain its presence? do you think its from slave trade :lol:
plus, its more frequent in north africa than all sub-saharan countries, exept mali.
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samysamy25
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Cruciani et :

[blockquote] E1b1a is an African lineage that probably expanded from northern African to sub-Saharan and equatorial Africa with the Bantu agricultural expansion. E1b1a is the most common lineage among African Americans. E1b1b1 probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west--both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. Eb1b1 clusters are seen today in Western Europe, Southeast Europe, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa. [/blockquote]

The Cruciani articles (references and links below) are indispensable resources for understanding the structure of this complicated haplogroup, but note that the Cruciani haplogroup labels are now superseded because of the recently discovered new SNPS that lie closer to the root of the E branch of the Y-haplogroup Tree.

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE09.html

so much pretty semilar to the National Geographic map of M2 bantuid neolithic expansion

Posted Image


North East africa = southern Egypt and Libya and case closed
Edited by samysamy25, Jan 12 2010, 07:03 PM.
Arabs And East African Sub-Saharan Ancestory

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four
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Flashrad
Jan 12 2010, 07:00 PM
e1a was found in guanches, while e1b1a not. how can you explain its presence? do you think its from slave trade :lol:
plus, its more frequent in north africa than all sub-saharan countries, exept mali.
E1a is a more Northern Lineage than M2. But it is still a lineage of Sub Saharan Ancestry. E-M33 (E1a) does NOT go over 5% in any North African country. Its quite the same with E-M2. Also remember E1a is found in Portugal and Spain but not E-M2. E-M33 is a lineage of the Sahara and Sahel.

Where do you get it is only found in Mali from at high numbers from?

Please compare
NORTH AFRICA @ less than 5%

TO:

(Cameroon) 53%
(Mali) 45%-Djola (Guinea-Bissau) 34% -
(Guinea-Bissau) 20%
(Cameroon) 20%
(Sudan) 16%
(Guinea-Bissau) 12%
(Senegambia) 12%
(Guinea-Bissau) 12%
(Sudan) 12%
(Burkina Faso) 10%


You are giving your opinion when I have already linked the study that shows this.

Source
Source

You seem fairly intelligent, please use your brain and actually READ the study before you comment. The information is right in front of your face yet you say:
Quote:
 
its more frequent in north africa than all sub-saharan countries, exept mali. headscratch
Edited by four, Jan 12 2010, 09:24 PM.
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samysamy25
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four
Jan 12 2010, 09:23 PM
E1a is a more Northern Lineage than M2. But it is still a lineage of Sub Saharan Ancestry. E-M33 (E1a) does NOT go over 5% in any North African country. Its quite the same with E-M2. Also remember E1a is found in Portugal and Spain but not E-M2. E-M33 is a lineage of the Sahara and Sahel.

Yeah! E-M33 is a lineage of the Sahara and Sahel . Not sub-saharan west african countries !! except Guinea bissau and Northern Cameroon

Posted Image

but from where you get That E1a is of sub-saharan ancestry ? ur sources don't shows your pathetic posts of Non quoted paragraphs !!!!
according to ur manipulation of claims and mesinforming the Data of the genetic papers...there is No evidence who confirm the sub-saharid origins of E* ?aren't him from North east africa (Lybia-Egypt)Cruciani et 2009 ;)
do u want to teach u the Geography or from where E1b1a the bantuid marker is ORIGINATED?
read the subject ,and I'm waiting from the source of ur E* sub-saharid origins ...

by the way ,u need another lesson for how to read the Genetic papers ....

Origins

Underhill et al. (2001) proposed that haplogroup E may have arisen in East Africa. Some authors as Chandrasekar et al. (2007), continue to accept the earlier position of Hammer et al. (1997) that Haplogroup E may have originated in Asia, given that:

* E is a clade of Haplogroup DE, with the other major clade, haplogroup D, being East Asian.
* DE is a clade within M168 with the other two major clades, C and F considered to have a Eurasian origin.

However, several discoveries made since the Hammer articles are thought to make an Asian origin less likely:

1. Underhill and Kivisild (2007) demonstrated that C and F have a common ancestor, meaning that DE has only one sibling which is non African.
2. DE* is found in both Asia and Africa, meaning that not only one, but several siblings of D are found in Africa.
3. Karafet et al. (2008), in which Hammer is a co-author, significantly rearranged time estimates leading to "new interpretations on the geographical origin of ancient sub-clades". Amongst other things this article proposed a much older age for haplogroup E than had been considered previously, giving it a similar age to Haplogroup D, and DE itself, meaning that there is no longer any strong reason to see it as an offshoot of DE which must have happened long after DE came into existence and had entered Asia

http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.genet.41.110306.130407

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-04/cshl-sry032608.php


Edited by samysamy25, Jan 12 2010, 11:38 PM.
Arabs And East African Sub-Saharan Ancestory

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four
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samysamy25
Jan 12 2010, 11:08 PM
four
Jan 12 2010, 09:23 PM
E1a is a more Northern Lineage than M2. But it is still a lineage of Sub Saharan Ancestry. E-M33 (E1a) does NOT go over 5% in any North African country. Its quite the same with E-M2. Also remember E1a is found in Portugal and Spain but not E-M2. E-M33 is a lineage of the Sahara and Sahel.

Yeah! E-M33 is a lineage of the Sahara and Sahel . Not sub-saharan west african countries !! except Guinea bissau and Northern Cameroon


but from where you get That E1a is of sub-saharan ancestry ? ur sources don't shows your pathetic posts of Non quoted paragraphs !!!!
according to ur manipulation of claims and mesinforming the Data of the genetic papers...there is No evidence who confirm the sub-saharid origins of E* ?aren't him from North east africa (Lybia-Egypt)Cruciani et 2009 ;)
do u want to teach u the Geography or from where E1b1a the bantuid marker is ORIGINATED?
read the subject ,and I'm waiting from the source of ur E* sub-saharid origins ...
I am almost through with you because you are not smart enough to have a conversation with.
You are what I call a "BLOCK HEAD" :brickwall:

Quote:
 
Not sub-saharan west african countries !! except Guinea bissau and Northern Cameroon


(Cameroon) 53%
(Mali) 45%-Djola
(Guinea-Bissau) 34%
(Sudan) 16%
(Senegambia) 12%
(Burkina Faso) 10%
(Senegal) 5%

Here is a map of "Sub Saharan Africa" (give or take Mauritania)
Posted Image
In these countries the Vast Majority of the population are what you call "Negro"
All these countries where M33 is that I listed are "Sub Saharan"

I am not talking about E* - If you want to argue that "All Africans are really Asians" then that is your prerogative. I personally cannot understand how you function in real life. If you don't mind how old are you and what do you do (Profession)?
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Flashrad
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where are your high frequencies??? :lol:

Posted Image

Posted Image
Edited by Flashrad, Jan 13 2010, 02:38 AM.
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Flashrad
Jan 13 2010, 02:35 AM
where are your high frequencies??? :lol:

Posted Image

Posted Image
Neither of those maps are from scientific published articles. But since you tried:
1 - I will not even comment on the Genetic Atlas map, obviously it is WRONG because the highest frequency is in Cameroon and not Mali.

2 - The wikipedia photo is correct but did you look at the KEY? GREY = NO DATA
All Sub Saharan countries in which they DO have data you can see the frequency is HIGHER than it is in North Africa - Except for Ethiopia which has low frequency of E-M33. I am not sure what you are trying to say about E-M33, please state your case and put for an argument.....Read the Sources before you do so. posting 2 images of MAPS without knowing what they mean is not helping your case.
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ShadowStriker
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why people don't make such big deal for R1b and R1a, i mean people are so DUMB both of them (E1b1b-E1b1a) are related
Quote:
 
typical black monkey ! keep misinforming the genetic papers by ur own sub-saharid theories
North east africa is southern Egypt and Libya Not horn africa !!! retards

Cruciani said :
E1b1b1 probably evolved either in Northeast Africa or the Near East and then expanded to the west--both north and south of the Mediterranean Sea. Eb1b1 clusters are seen today in Western Europe, Southeast Europe, the Near East, Northeast Africa and Northwest Africa.

and shet up when u discuss with ur masters ,u dirty slave


0 Proof, all you want is to claim something isn't yours E1b1 comes from Sub-Saharan Africa (Highlands of Ethiopia) : Berbers are from subsaharan origins not the other way around :D
Edited by ShadowStriker, Jan 15 2010, 12:40 PM.
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Sampr
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ShadowStriker
Jan 15 2010, 11:56 AM
why people don't make such big deal for R1b and R1a, i mean people are so DUMB both of them (E1b1b-E1b1a) are related
The problem is that some individuals don't want to be related to anything black.
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samysamy25
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Sampr
Jan 15 2010, 10:06 PM
ShadowStriker
Jan 15 2010, 11:56 AM
why people don't make such big deal for R1b and R1a, i mean people are so DUMB both of them (E1b1b-E1b1a) are related
The problem is that some individuals don't want to be related to anything black.
:rolleyes: from where u get this Idea ?
by the way they are related but the bantuid/congoid marker have a North african origin and before this the Eurasid Paleo-asianid roots according to the recent genetic papers
their blackness is possibly a recent mutation and Evolution AKA the caucasians exist in africa before the bantuid presence :cool: No problem there
Arabs And East African Sub-Saharan Ancestory

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBzELv2mXVw[/youtube]
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Sampr
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samysamy25
Jan 15 2010, 10:23 PM
:rolleyes: from where u get this Idea ?
by the way they are related but the bantuid/congoid marker have a North african origin and before this the Eurasid Paleo-asianid roots according to the recent genetic papers
their blackness is possibly a recent mutation and Evolution AKA the caucasians exist in africa before the bantuid presence :cool: No problem there
Nope, blacks are the more old human race, caucasians and mongoloids came after.
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