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Caucasians smell, Asians don't
Topic Started: Dec 25 2009, 04:19 PM (9,529 Views)
jojocircus
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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/29/science/29cnd-ear.html
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Toiletman
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The article is right at the first half. The rest gets speculative since correlation does not mean causality and it also ignores the fact that Europeans and Africans vary hugely regarding body odor. North Europeans smell less than Middle Easterners or even Africans but yet they all have wet earwax.

The title of this thread however is nonsense. I have smelled pretty many Asians and Caucasians and while the former do indeed smell less than the letter, they still do.
If you take anything in this forum overly serious, you should really go and see a doctor.
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Berserk
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Toiletman
Dec 25 2009, 04:42 PM
The article is right at the first half. The rest gets speculative since correlation does not mean causality and it also ignores the fact that Europeans and Africans vary hugely regarding body odor. North Europeans smell less than Middle Easterners or even Africans but yet they all have wet earwax.

The title of this thread however is nonsense. I have smelled pretty many Asians and Caucasians and while the former do indeed smell less than the letter, they still do.
Yes, Asians definitely do have an odor, but I can't quite describe it. Europeans tend to smell like bologna when they sweat. West African Blacks tend to have a weird funky odor that I can't describe either. I don't know what my native people, Somalis, smell like since I smell myself all the time and I'm probably used to my own ethnic groups odor.
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Crimson Guard
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East Asians smell. Body odors can also be influenced through diet, with the foods we eat. Also Mongoloids or Mongoloid-Caucasoid mixes do not isnt simply live in the cold. Many Mongoloids live in semi or tropical areas not simply Boreal for many thousands of years now.

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Anyhow, I have mainly dry, flaky ear wax around the ear, I must be part East Asian, oh well: :D

Here is an older study back in 2006:


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Populations in Southern Asia, the Pacific Islands, Central Asia, Asia Minor, and Native North Americans and Inuit of Asian ancestry, fall in the middle with dry wax frequencies ranging from 30 to 50 percent.


http://www.livescience.com/health/060129_ear_wax.html

Edited by Crimson Guard, Dec 25 2009, 09:34 PM.
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Omshanti
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Both of the articles are from the same date. Both articles obviously refer to the same study. That East Asians have dry earwax has been a general knowledge in Japan long before this genetic study was conducted. Similar to the kind of knowledge that east Asians have the 'Mongolian spot' or that they are more easily intoxicated by alcohol and such. East Asians definitely do have less body odor than other peoples. Interestingly, I happen to be a Japanese with wet earwax, and I was often teased in childhood for my stronger body odor and the amount of my perspiration. Incidentally, although this might be completely unrelated and thus off topic here, I happen to be one of those minority Japanese people whose phenotype leans towards the Jomon phenotype than the Yayoi phenotype. I wonder if this has any thing to do with my earwax being wet, and if so, if it means that the dry earwax gene arose in east Asia after the paleolithic ancestors of the Jomon people had settled in Japan.
Edited by Omshanti, Dec 25 2009, 10:08 PM.
You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother. Albert Einstein
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Crimson Guard
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Good catch with the date, :lol: . I was too busy eating my dinner.

I did some searching and found something in Coon's book, "THE LIVING RACES OF MAN".



IN 1955 E. Matsunaga discovered that the cerumen, or wax that exudes from human earholes, comes in two forms, sticky and crumbly or dry. We have already mentioned this in reference to the Ainus, but will discuss it in a more general way here. Dimorphism in earwax type is controlled at a single genetic locus, where an allele for wet wax is dominant over an allele for dry wax. Having determined this fact, Matsunaga proceeded to calculate the gene frequencies for peoples of many regions and races, as shown on Table 7.

TABLE 7 FREQUENCIES OF THE GENE FOR DRY EARWAX

Northern Chinese .98
Koreans .96
Tungus .95
Mongols .94
Japanese .92
Southern Chinese .86
Ryukyu Islanders .79
Li of Hainan .67
Micronesian .61
Formosan aborigines .53
Melanesians .53
Ainus .37
Germans .18
American Whites .16
American Negroes .07
Maya Indians .02

Dry earwax is found in nearly all of the northern Asiatic Mongoloids. Its frequency decreases gradually as one moves southward to Micronesia , Formosa, and Melanesia. The Ainu turn out to be essentially Caucasoid in this respect, as previously stated. No figures are available for Australian aborigines, but judging from the direction of the cline running from China to Melanesia they should be low. Europeans have very little dry ear wax and Africans have even less. The figure for unmixed Maya Indians is amazing; if they wre mixed with Europeans their percentages would be higher, as it is the case with mestizos studied by the same investigators. These figures appear to drive a thick wedge between Asiatic Mongoloids and American Indians, but we shall have to wait for more information on other tribes before trying to interpret this isolated finding.

Matsunaga realized that a polymorphism must have a function to exist, but he could find no correlation with blood groups the tasting of PTC. He suggests that the condition is associated with Caucasoid-Negroid type body odor which the Japanese loathe. Cerumen is formed in a modified sebaceous gland, but so is milk, and the Maya Indians have no odor offensive to anymore. The problem is still unsolved.
Edited by Crimson Guard, Dec 25 2009, 10:48 PM.
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Crimson Guard
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Being that I have intermediate type which is common from people in Asia Minor, I would guess it was common along the original IE's, Bell Beakers or Megalithic builders.
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Omshanti
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I don't think there is an intermediate type. It seems, from what is written in the article, the gene responsible for this difference in earwax is either switched on or off, meaning that your earwax can only be wet or dry. Nothing in between. What the article was saying about Asia minor was that it falls in the middle with regards to the dry wax frequency. This is not surprising at all as Asia minor today is populated by Turkic people who originally came from Mongolia. If this rate of frequency were due to Indo-European speakers, then I would say that similar rate of frequencies would have been more widespread in Europe. The fact that this rate of frequency is limited to Asia minor and that it is the same rate as central Asia which is also populated by Turkic peoples, easily points to a Turkic origin of the dry earwax in these regions.
Also regarding the Ainu and they being Caucasoid. Not having dry earwax does not automatically make one Caucasoid. The article states that the wet earwax is likely to have been the ancestral form, which means that in order not to have dry earwax, all that was needed was for one's ancestor to have left the east Asian continent before the dry form arose, which seems likely to be the case with the Jomon people (who contributed to the ancestry of the Ainu and the Japanese) and also the Mayans.
Edited by Omshanti, Dec 26 2009, 01:47 AM.
You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother. Albert Einstein
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Crimson Guard
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By that same logic you used with "not having dry earwax does not automatically make one Caucasoid" would apply to Caucasoid peoples as well. Moreover there is ancient Caucasoid peoples in Central Asia and China, aka Indo-European Tocharians as one such example. Turkic peoples are a mix of Mediterranid Caucasoid and Mongoloids. There doesnt seem to be a racial association with wax type, if there was then it would imply that Caucasoid and Negroids are the same. In Asia Minor Mongoloid genetic frequencies dont exceed 10-20%.


Dry Wax is is found in Whites, but in smaller percentages.

Quote:
 
Northern Chinese .98
Koreans .96
Tungus .95
Mongols .94
Japanese .92
Southern Chinese .86
Ryukyu Islanders .79
Li of Hainan .67
Micronesian .61
Formosan aborigines .53
Melanesians .53
Ainus .37
Germans .18
American Whites .16
American Negroes .07
Maya Indians .02

Dry earwax is found in nearly all of the northern Asiatic Mongoloids. Its frequency decreases gradually as one moves southward to Micronesia ,


In Mongoloids its higher in ones from the North and gradually decreases. The article also mentions an environmental advantage due to the colder climate. Even Blood types have certain advantages, and there is Bloody type B found in Caucasoid of no known Mongoloid ancestry. Moreover, if humans originated in Asia( such as say for example YAP) then it would shoot holes in the African theory present above and the Caucasoid and Negroids being closer as also mentioned in that article because of the OOA hypothesis doesnt seem likely.

Coon mentions Upper Paleolithic Caucasoids and Mongoloids sharing more similarities with eachother than he does with Negroids.
Moreover it is not found among the Hungarians, a people well known for being part Hunnic-Ugrian and having Mongoloid-Caucasoid hybrid phenotypes:

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http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/discoveries/2006-01-29-dry-earwax_x.htm?POE=TECISVA

Earwax type determined by single letter of DNA


http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/01/earwax-type-determined-by-single.html
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Edited by Crimson Guard, Dec 26 2009, 02:38 AM.
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Omshanti
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Crmison Guard, you are attaching too much racial connotation to everything, and hence you read too much into what I write and try to deny things that were not there in my post in the first place.
If you read my post carefully, you would notice that I wrote:
Omshanti
 
If this rate of frequency were due to Indo-European speakers, then I would say that similar rate of frequencies would have been more widespread in Europe. The fact that this rate of frequency is limited to Asia minor and that it is the same rate as central Asia which is also populated by Turkic peoples, easily points to a Turkic origin of the dry earwax in these regions.

As you see, nowhere in my post did I associate race with earwax.
I am also fully aware of the presence of Caucasoid peoples in central Asia in ancient times, otherwise I wouldn't have written what I wrote in the topic ''Any truth in this?''.
The articles state very clearly that a single gene which arose in northeast Asia quite recently, possibly among people who later became the Chinese and Koreans, is responsible for dry earwax. This easily implies, despite the gene not being a race specific phenomenon, that in order to have dry earwax one must have a relatively recent north east Asian ancestry.
What I am suggesting implies that you might have in your ancestry a Mongoloid influence from an Altaic people (that is if you do indeed have dry earwax), and it seems to me that this might be quite a difficult possibility to accept for you. However, when you compare the rate of frequency in Asia minor and central Asia and compare it with the rest of Europe, and also consider the origin of the dry earwax gene as I wrote few sentences above, it is improbable that it was carried by proto Indo-European speakers, and more probable that it was carried by Altaic speakers. This is all I was saying.
Edited by Omshanti, Dec 26 2009, 11:56 AM.
You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother. Albert Einstein
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