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U3b is not Gypsy DNA; FAO Oluwasegun!
Topic Started: Aug 18 2009, 08:03 PM (4,668 Views)
Trog
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Apparently Oluwasegun/canada claims in another forum that I am part-Gypsy based on having mtDNA U3b. This is wrong. Whilst U3b is especially high amongst the Roma population, this is due to genetic drift.

U3b is possibly Iranic/Anatolian in its origins and is not a gypsy marker. And I do not descend from Gypies as Oluwasegun claims. Someone please see that he gets this, thanks.

PS My family are not "unusually dark" either. They're normal.
Edited by Trog, Aug 18 2009, 08:04 PM.
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Toma
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Lol, so what's wrong with being a gypsy?
Feminist, anti-Muslims, pro-choice, atheist.
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Trog
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That's not what this is about, Toma. No, I personally don't hold an esteemed opinion of Gypsies, but that's beside the point. U3b is not a Gypsy marker -which incidentally *is* the point.
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Toma
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So whose marker is it?
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Crimson Guard
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There is discussion of it here:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/1385461/1/
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Delilah
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In addition, mtDNA and y-Dna only tell the genetic make-up of one of your ancestors. In this case, your Mom's Mom and her Mom and so forth. This also explains why some African-American males might have Caucasian y-DNA.
"Let nothing disturb you. Let nothing frighten you. All things pass. God does not change. Patience achieves everything. Whoever has God lacks nothing. God alone suffices." St. Teresa of Avila
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Caudium
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True, Delilah. Lineage markers are much like last-names. They only speak of one, single lineage. While this might be good for understanding prehistoric population movements, founder effects, etc. they do little good for an individual's total ancestry.

Although I don't know my Y-DNA marker, my last name is of Norman derivation with ultimate origins in Scandinavia. But I doubt I'd cluster with your average Norwegian on an autosomnal plot.
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Anodyne
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Trog
Aug 18 2009, 08:03 PM
Apparently Oluwasegun/canada claims in another forum that I am part-Gypsy based on having mtDNA U3b.
Olu, dishonest? Nooooooo. It can't be.

This would be like arguing that English fellow who has a distant paternal ancestor from sub-Sahara Africa is part Black, despite looking typically English.
Where's the beef?
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Sampr
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_U_%28mtDNA%29
Quote:
 
Haplogroup U3

Haplogroup U3 (named 'Uma' by Bryan Sykes) is defined by the HVR1 transition A16343G. It is found at low levels throughout Europe (about 1% of the population), the Near East (about 2.5% of the population), and Central Asia (1%). U3 is present at higher levels among populations in the Caucasus (about 6%) and among Lithuanian Romani, Polish Romani, and Spanish Romani populations (36-56%)
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Trog
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Well, I joined the database to find my genetic matches and I have waited almost 2 years to find an exact match. I was contacted by one - and he comes from Puerto Rico, lol.

Introducing Ramon.

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Delilah
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woah, Trog what a surprise, huh! What database did you join? Mitosearch? Is the match a low-resolution or high resolution match?
Edited by Delilah, Oct 4 2009, 06:41 PM.
"Let nothing disturb you. Let nothing frighten you. All things pass. God does not change. Patience achieves everything. Whoever has God lacks nothing. God alone suffices." St. Teresa of Avila
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Trog
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Well, maybe not, Delilah. You see, you've been keeping secrets from me, huh. Because of this PR dude, I have discovered there were Irish and Scottish immigrations to PR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_immigration_to_Puerto_Rico

Yeah, this guy contacted me via mitosearch. I never got the HRV2 done though.
Edited by Trog, Oct 4 2009, 06:43 PM.
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Delilah
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I'm just kidding with you. And yes there were many European immigrants to Puerto Rico. That's why we have a lot of non-Spanish last names like Beauchamp, Wiscovitch, Barbot etc. Just some of the ones I remember from the town I grew up in. This document allowed many Europeans into Puerto Rico.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Decree_of_Graces_of_1815 This article says that they were offered free land at a time when there was widespread poverty in Europe like the Potato Famine of 1840.
Edited by Delilah, Oct 4 2009, 06:58 PM.
"Let nothing disturb you. Let nothing frighten you. All things pass. God does not change. Patience achieves everything. Whoever has God lacks nothing. God alone suffices." St. Teresa of Avila
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samysamy25
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I know a youtubers from puerto-rico he claim himself as a jew ,but his features is typically North Europid
Arabs And East African Sub-Saharan Ancestory

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBzELv2mXVw[/youtube]
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Robert
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trog, your u3 probably comes from spain if there's a match in puerto rico.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48ErmfiV6nM[/youtube]
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svarog
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I am U3a1.

There is not much researched about these (U3a/b) Mt haplogroup subclades, but most of the people surveyed in a thread in 23andme's community forum have indicated that they are from Northern Europe and have no known Roma ancestry.
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Romipen
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Actually I agree with Trog. U3b is found among some Romany populations, but it is not exclusively Romany in origin, and certainly is not of the Romany founder population, it was likely introduced to the Romany population with in the last 2000 years, since the time the Romany migrated to Europe. The most dominate mt Haplo Group among the Romany, is Haplo M, with U3b being a close 2nd.

DNA testing done on Romany male lineages, clearly finds Y Haplo Group H1a being the predominate Y Haplo found in virtually all Romany male populations through out Europe, with the exception of the Scandinavia Romany who so far have not found one H1a male lineage among their male population, but have found Y Haplo R1a.

Romany are South East Asian in origin, mainly from India / Sri Lanka regions today. The term Gypsy is not what we call ourselves, we are Roma / Romani / Romany people, Europeans call us Gypsies lol. The Romani root language is a mix of Indian dialects with strong ties to Punjab. Depending on which Romany clan is being reviewed depends on the percentage of the Y Haplo H1a population is found, but among most of the clans, H1a is found as high as 50% to 80% among the Romany male population.
If someone really wants to prove a Romany connection in their family, finding a Y Haplo H1a male lineage in your tree is certainly the first step in proving that Romany kinship, not mt Haplo U3b.

I happen to know a little bit about this discussion, I am Romany!
I am the Admin of the Y Haplo H DNA project and Admin of the Romany DNA project.
To date, not one South East Asian from India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan has not been found in U3b to my knowledge.
So if U3b is not found in South East Asia, India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, then how can U3b be a founder female Romany in origin?
It can't be because Romany men are clearly India / Sri Lanka / parts of Pakistan in origin! Thus so should the founder Romany female population also be India / Sri Lanka in origin, which U3b certainly is not India / Sri Lanka in origin.

Yes U3b is found in certain European Romany populations, I don't disagree with that fact, but it certainly is not of the founder population, mt Haplo M is of the Romany founder population which is clearly evident in multiple Romany DNA studies that can easily be found online.

Now if Trog came back telling me Y Haplo H1a has been found in his male side of his tree, then we would have something to talk more about! HAHA! And Trog, who you know as the Gypsies, is likely not who I know as the Romany people, those wannabe pretenders give true Romany people a bad repuation. And I tend to agree, we Romany people don't have the greatest reputations ourselves!
But we aren't all bad folks!

I am a Deep Clade SNP tested and confirmed Y Haplo H1a Romany male of British origins to the USA.
I am the real deal here folks :)

Kushti Bokt!

" And just for the record, Irish Travelers formerly known as Tinkers in the UK are NOT Romany Gypsies! "

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newtoanthropology
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Romipen
Nov 11 2010, 09:51 AM
Actually I agree with Trog. U3b is found among some Romany populations, but it is not exclusively Romany in origin, and certainly is not of the Romany founder population, it was likely introduced to the Romany population with in the last 2000 years, since the time the Romany migrated to Europe. The most dominate mt Haplo Group among the Romany, is Haplo M, with U3b being a close 2nd.

DNA testing done on Romany male lineages, clearly finds Y Haplo Group H1a being the predominate Y Haplo found in virtually all Romany male populations through out Europe, with the exception of the Scandinavia Romany who so far have not found one H1a male lineage among their male population, but have found Y Haplo R1a.

Romany are South East Asian in origin, mainly from India / Sri Lanka regions today. The term Gypsy is not what we call ourselves, we are Roma / Romani / Romany people, Europeans call us Gypsies lol. The Romani root language is a mix of Indian dialects with strong ties to Punjab. Depending on which Romany clan is being reviewed depends on the percentage of the Y Haplo H1a population is found, but among most of the clans, H1a is found as high as 50% to 80% among the Romany male population.
If someone really wants to prove a Romany connection in their family, finding a Y Haplo H1a male lineage in your tree is certainly the first step in proving that Romany kinship, not mt Haplo U3b.

I happen to know a little bit about this discussion, I am Romany!
I am the Admin of the Y Haplo H DNA project and Admin of the Romany DNA project.
To date, not one South East Asian from India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan has not been found in U3b to my knowledge.
So if U3b is not found in South East Asia, India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, then how can U3b be a founder female Romany in origin?
It can't be because Romany men are clearly India / Sri Lanka / parts of Pakistan in origin! Thus so should the founder Romany female population also be India / Sri Lanka in origin, which U3b certainly is not India / Sri Lanka in origin.

Yes U3b is found in certain European Romany populations, I don't disagree with that fact, but it certainly is not of the founder population, mt Haplo M is of the Romany founder population which is clearly evident in multiple Romany DNA studies that can easily be found online.

Now if Trog came back telling me Y Haplo H1a has been found in his male side of his tree, then we would have something to talk more about! HAHA! And Trog, who you know as the Gypsies, is likely not who I know as the Romany people, those wannabe pretenders give true Romany people a bad repuation. And I tend to agree, we Romany people don't have the greatest reputations ourselves!
But we aren't all bad folks!

I am a Deep Clade SNP tested and confirmed Y Haplo H1a Romany male of British origins to the USA.
I am the real deal here folks :)

Kushti Bokt!

" And just for the record, Irish Travelers formerly known as Tinkers in the UK are NOT Romany Gypsies! "

Gypises are not from Punjab. The H1a should give it away. Punjabis tend to be more R1a-J2-L-G not H1-R2.
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Romipen
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Read it again, I clearly said "The Romani root language is a mix of Indian dialects with strong ties to Punjab"
I never said Romany are Punjab, big distinction here!
Please do not read more in to my words then what I said.
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birko19
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newtoanthropology
Nov 11 2010, 03:10 PM
Gypises are not from Punjab. The H1a should give it away. Punjabis tend to be more R1a-J2-L-G not H1-R2.
This says that Punjabi Brahmins carry 25% R2:

http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v54/n1/fig_tab/jhg20082t1.html#figure-title

It's generally a myth that haplogroups R2 and H are not common in Northwestern parts of India and Pakistan, they are in fact very common.




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