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Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
Theres more than enough evidence that Scythians were Iranian speakers. Which is why the general consensus of scholars accepted this view.

For your information, the Iranian Scythians even have descendants in Europe, called Jassic people, they are found in Hungary today.

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The Jassic people or Jász are an ethnic group of Hungarians who mostly live in the Jász-Nagykun-Szolnok county of the Republic of Hungary. They are of Ossetic (Sarmatian, Iranian) origin and originally spoke the Jassic dialect of the Ossetic language. Today, they speak Hungarian and consider themselves to be Hungarians, but a sense of the "Jassic ethnic identity" is also preserved among them.

The Jassic people live in the region known as "Jászság" (roughly translatable as Jász-land), which comprise the north-western part of the Jász-Nagykun-Szolnok county. Their cultural and political center is the town of Jászberény.
It is a common mistake to call Jászság by the name "Jazygia", which derives from the name of another Iranian people – the Iazyges, who lived in the same territory between the Danube and Tisza rivers in ancient times.

The Jassic (Jász) people were a nomadic Sarmatian (Iranian) tribe which settled in the medieval Kingdom of Hungary during the 13th century.[1] Their name is almost certainly related to that of the Iazyges, one of the Sarmatian Alanic tribes which, along with the Roxolani, reached the borders of Dacia during the late 1st century BC (the city of Iași is named for them). Residual elements of these tribes, ancestors of the Jassic people, remained behind in the central North Caucasus, mingling with Caucasian peoples to form the present-day Ossetes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jassic_people

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
geomattica
Sep 4 2012, 06:06 AM
For the record, Slavs and Scythians are two different, discrete ethno-linguistic identities.
Yeah because Scythians were Iranian, not Slavs or Mongols like you want them to be. Sorry to ruin your Polish fantasies.

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
geomattica
Sep 4 2012, 05:51 AM
Never said anything about autosomal DNA. Rather I said components which could refer to any type of genetic components. No need to put words in peoples mouths. Besides the haplotypes were closer to Slavs then any other group. What's so hard about that to understand?

It just so happens that Slav autosomal components are nothing like Iranians or Kurds.

And your citing old studies, and demonstrating no knowledge of ancestral clades and how they relate. You clearly only take in what you want to hear and then try and put words in others mouths.

But you feel Iran is R1a1 homeland based on your own pseudo-science so go on. Have that opinion even though there's no firm evidence for that whatsoever.

Scythians had nothing to do with Slavs. I don't know where you got this idea stuck in your head that they do. Perhaps reading to much Polish scythomaniac posts by Polako or something.

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
geomattica
Sep 4 2012, 05:35 AM
Hahahahahaha!


Oh boy delusion runs strong in you doesn't it? Sure make it seem to yourself that you know what your talking about, which you clearly don't or that somehow you are the voice of maturity or reason on this thread. Seriously what are you like 12 or something?

Whatev, but by all means keep the old archaic studies from nearly 10 years ago coming and charts that tell us nothing of how all the clades relate to one another regarding R1a1. You're clearly wasting everyone's time at this point. You didn't even know of the Keyser which was a huge one to read and understand like 2 years ago.

Just another Iranian w/ massive butt hurt sensitivity issues. :rolleyes:
What exactly would I be butthurt about? lol

You said modern Iranians have nothing to do with the Scythians and I proved that they do both paternally and maternally. Then you brought up pigmentation which has nothing to do with being north European or not, many people outside of Europe have light eyes and hair today, take a look at the Kalash as an example. Then after that you tried to make it seem like Autosomally Scythians are closest to Balto-Slavs, when we don't even have their autosomal DNA to begin with.


Anyway, at some point it gets tiring repeating the same things over again when you're not going to even listen.

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
geomattica
Sep 4 2012, 05:22 AM
Saddle
Sep 4 2012, 05:19 AM
That map doesn't rule against anything.... Like I said R* R1* R1a* and R1a1a* are all found in Iranians today. This points to their origin in Iran.
Nope. There have been leaps and bounds made in all this and right now your frequency idea doesn't add up to anything.

Ancestral clades have to be taken into account and your chart does not provide any insight here.

Then again your name is Saddle, which is something one sits on. :lol:
I get it, I proved you wrong that both Scythian mtdna and ydna is found in modern Iranians so you are now upset and resorting to personal attacks. Nothing surprising here :lol:

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
geomattica
Sep 4 2012, 05:13 AM
That study is rather dated. Here's a better breakdown of R1a1's origins and distributions:

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The way the clades are breaking down rules highly against an Iranian point of origin for R1a1. You have to take into account all the new clades and what not and their defining SNPs. The Kivilsid study is simply not up to date enough to be reliable here.

mtDNA isn't alway reliable for accounting for migrations, and origins of people and what not to due to traditions of wife giving and wife taking among archaic societies. Practice still goes on in Kazakhstan actually.
That map doesn't rule against anything.... Like I said R* R1* R1a* and R1a1a* are all found in Iranians today. This points to their origin in Iran.

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
All the Scythian mtdna lineages in your article can be found in Iranians today. Here you go.

As for the Scythian ydna which was exclusively R1a1, I think it's most widely accepted that r1a1 originated somewhere in Iran.


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.Many Haplotypes of Y-chromosomal Haplogroup R have been found throughout the Iranian Plateau, and it has been suggested that this Haplogroup may have had its origins in Iran. Cambridge University geneticist Toomas Kivisild has suggested  : "Given the geographic spread and STR diversities of sister clades R1 and R2, the latter of which is restricted to India, Pakistan, Iran, and southern central Asia, it is possible that southern and western Asia were the source for R1 and R1a differentiation."(Kivisild et al. 2003). A similar conclusion was given by population geneticist Miguel Regueiro in the Journal of Human Heredity (Regueiro et al. Human Heredity vol. 61 (2006), pp. 132–143)

By the way R1a is the most common ydna in Iran, followed by R1b.

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Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
geomattica
Sep 4 2012, 04:22 AM
Saddle
Sep 4 2012, 04:18 AM
Okay none of that backs up what you just said.
Read the article itself. It says it all in there. Bottom line, it does back up what I say as early Scythians were like a European population where as Pagani k8 shows present day Kurds and Iranians as hardly like Europeans at all.
I don't care if Iranians or Europeans or not, but what you are saying in untrue. All the Ydna lineages and mtdna lineages in that study are found in Iranians today. And that entire article says nothing about their autosomal DNA which is by far the most important.

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
geomattica
Sep 4 2012, 04:15 AM
C. Keyser et al. 2009. Ancient DNA provides new insights into the history of south Siberian Kurgan people. Human Genetics.
Can you provide a link to where it says that?
geomattica
Sep 4 2012, 04:15 AM
C. Keyser et al. 2009. Ancient DNA provides new insights into the history of south Siberian Kurgan people. Human Genetics.

Abstract:

"To help unravel some of the early Eurasian steppe migration movements, we determined the Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial haplotypes and haplogroups of 26 ancient human specimens from the Krasnoyarsk area dated from between the middle of the second millennium BC. to the fourth century AD. In order to go further in the search of the geographic origin and physical traits of these south Siberian specimens, we also typed phenotype-informative single nucleotide polymorphisms. Our autosomal, Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA analyses reveal that whereas few specimens seem to be related matrilineally or patrilineally, nearly all subjects belong to haplogroup R1a1-M17 which is thought to mark the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans. Our results also confirm that at the Bronze and Iron Ages, south Siberia was a region of overwhelmingly predominant European settlement, suggesting an eastward migration of Kurgan people across the Russo-Kazakh steppe. Finally, our data indicate that at the Bronze and Iron Age timeframe, south Siberians were blue (or green)-eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people and that they might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilization. To the best of our knowledge, no equivalent molecular analysis has been undertaken so far."
Okay none of that backs up what you just said.

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
geomattica
Sep 4 2012, 03:56 AM
Saddle
Sep 4 2012, 03:41 AM
There are still Caucasoid people living in western China. They are called Pamiris and are descended from the Soghdians and Scythians. Their Mongoloid admixture is minimal, score only like 7% Siberian and 7% east Asian.

And when you add those numbers up you get 14% which is rather significant. Turkish people have an Altaic component of typically 10-15% according to MDLP calculator.

According to Pagani K8 spreadsheet, Iranians and Kurds only have about a 5-8% European component. And Pagani K8 test was specifically designed to see how European a population can be.

Meanwhile, the Keyser study which focused on Andronovo and Scythian skeletal remains, found that the aDNA of Scythians clustered most closely to Balto-Slavic populations or in other words had a very strong European or NE European components. They certainly did not cluster close to present day Iranian or Kurdish populations.
Do you have a source for that claim? That Scythian autosomal DNA is closer to Balto-Slavs than to other Iranians?

classification for cute girl
Toiletman
Sep 2 2012, 10:28 PM
I don't think you got the idea of racial classification right.
What do you mean?

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
There are still Caucasoid people living in western China. They are called Pamiris and are descended from the Soghdians and Scythians. Their Mongoloid admixture is minimal, score only like 7% Siberian and 7% east Asian.

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Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
Watch the last 30 seconds of this video. Its about a Scythian mummy from Altai

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4tCVhoCKEhg

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
Do you have sources confirming that Parthians had contact with Turko-Mongols? I doubt you would because they don't exist. Turko-Mongols were still in East Asia at that time. They didn't even have contact with Scythians yet.

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
Rasko
Sep 3 2012, 11:19 PM
Central Asian Iranians were intermixing with East Eurasians from very early times, certainly around the Parthian era and later and long before the big Turkic and Mongol invasions. The numbers may not have been very great but there's no point in denying that it occurred.
No, I don't think they were mixing that early on. Most of it happened after the Uyghur and Oghuz expansions west, followed by the big Mongol invasion. I doubt much mixing happened during the Gokturk kingdom.

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
Much of the Turkic culture was based on earlier Iranian ones... their equestrian nomadic lifestyle which they adopted from the early Iranians. It's hard to tell who was absorbing who.

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
Here's a modern example of the interaction that went on between Mongoloid and Caucasoid people after 9th century AD....


Her father is Iranian mother is Japanese but she looks Kazakh/Altaiish

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Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
Angrals
Sep 3 2012, 10:02 PM
]Agreed, well the Parthians live on through the Feyli and Hewrami Kurds. We are meant to be direct descendants of them, along with our langauge that is Gorani Kurdish, its the most archaic of the Kurdish languages..
Interesting... I did not know Kurds claim descent from them. I knew that Caspian people (gilakis, mazanderanis, etc) and some people in northeast Iran still do though. Probably Turkmens as well.

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
Angrals
Sep 3 2012, 09:45 PM
Well to be honest with you after that peroid practically most of the eastern Iranic people were pretty much wiped out or absorbed by the mongoloids in central asia.
That is what I'm trying to tell this idiot. That they were absorbed. Tocharians by the Uyghur tribes, Scythians by the Kazakhs/Altai people etc, Soghdians by the Uzbeks, Parthians/Bactrians by the Turkmens and so on.

The earliest interaction occurred after 9th century AD so how could a Parthian general from 70BC have mongoloid traits? It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Classify Parthians, and Sassanian Royal line
geomattica
Sep 3 2012, 09:30 PM
^Man someone's got some serious issues. Just cause you can't handle that some people feel a statue represents someone indeed in a certain light that can be regarded as turco-mongol, you get the worlds biggest amount of butt hurt.

That's why people over at ABF loose their cool w/ you all the time. You really do act like an asshole, especially when someone disagrees w/ you or sees things differently.

I suppose you got up this morning and someone didn't tell you that you look Aplinid, or Iranid or something like that? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hence acting like a whiney jerk.

And, hence why you have to whine and cry here on the thread and why you have your own inferiority complexes. You can't accept the fact that Iranian people and east Asian Turkic types did mix over the years. You're probably Hazara, but go around pretending you are Zoasters great, great whatever and are just mad that someone years ago in your blood line was the footstool for some Turko-mongol type overlord. But by all means, go own believing your own nonsense and even attempt to put words in others mouths, but its basically true, Iranians have recieved gene flow from various sources over time.

Ergo, your geo-racial fantasies are just that: fantasies.


:D
Hmmm

I said earlier that Iranians did receive geneflow from Mongoloid people, but only after the 9th century AD when Turkic tribes first expanded into Central Asia and mixed with the locals who were of Caucasoid Iranian and Tocharian origin.

Anyway, talking sense with you is hopeless.