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DEFEATED: Repeal "Condemn Nazi Europe"; AT-VOTE discussion thread.
Topic Started: Oct 3 2009, 06:50 AM (183 Views)
Minyos

OOC:

I think the "official" WA forum discussion has been a lot less emotive than I thought it might be, and overall, relatively intelligent.

I truly had thought that things may get a bit more heated (I guess there were moments), I suspect had the voting been closer, it definitely would have been.

One concern I do have is that a proposer inimical to Nazi Europe may relatively quickly attempt a new repeal proposal - in order to scupper the process. Or, that Nazi Europe via a well-distanced puppet, attempt to keep the campaign proposal going, again relatively quickly, for sheer recruitment purposes. Now, I wasn't going to put words in anybody's head by posting it on the NS WA At-Vote thread, but it's a concern. At the moment, this forum site is in its infancy, so I am relatively safe to say this.

Uni, do you plan on re-submitting any repeal proposals as originally stated? I get the feeling that you don't, but I just wanted to know. I guess I've fallen into line as it were, in that originally I thought "Yes, let's keep this going" but I am 100% sure that anything in the next 3-4 months will only serve to aggravate the WA membership in toto and discredit the proposer and the aggrieved party.

However, unlike some posters back at WA Central, I don't think that the repeal process so far has been a waste of time - but it certainly must be admitted that we've tried, done our best over the last few months, and the best chance of success is to put it on the backburner. This vote has definitively shown that no repeal is going to shift popular sentiment right now (I am excluding the unlikely event of a sudden last-minute rush of FOR votes, at 1000+ down and less than 24 hours to go, it's extremely unlikely), but given time, I think the Condemnation will be repealed.

Was not impressed with Mad Sheep Railgun's attempt to derail the discussion into personal grudges about the Free Trade res. not passing, and by a significant margin. Tough titties, and I still say it's rude to even ASK why Alsted immediately voted against, I was one of the first few Dels to vote AGAINST too, and it's really of no concern whether Alsted did so too. Especially in the midst of an at-vote thread on a totally different matter, and in the Security Council no less! Rude, boorish, and totally dismissive of the issue at hand and other posters. Not impressed. Also unimpressed that MSR thinks the general WA membership (the SHEEP) would just vote on this issue because 240-odd AGAINST votes were laid down within the first few minutes! Ludicrous, that proposal came at a time when the RL world's population is somewhat disenchanted with globalisation, probably because of the GFC, and simply because "they" didn't get their proposal up, it CAN'T be the overall WA membership voting as it feels can it? No, it's ALSTED'S fault. Riiiight.

But otherwise, I think the debate went well, considering. If only the vote had, too.

Edited by Minyos, Oct 3 2009, 06:58 AM.
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"minyos"
 
Uni, do you plan on re-submitting any repeal proposals as originally stated? I get the feeling that you don't, but I just wanted to know. I guess I've fallen into line as it were, in that originally I thought "Yes, let's keep this going" but I am 100% sure that anything in the next 3-4 months will only serve to aggravate the WA membership in toto and discredit the proposer and the aggrieved party.


I will probably not be resubmitting it for the reasons you've stated above and the fact that I've got other things on my mind to propose.

Though I must agree with Sheep's general idea, that Alsted effected the vote by quite a bit. Does Alsted have the right to? Yes, yes he does. But it is generally agreed upon due to the sheepish nature of WA voters that large regions should abstain from voting till a natural vote can form (a few hours). I don't complain however when Alsted votes for my proposals as soon as they hit the floor -- because, well, I'm a politician :D
Edited by unibot, Oct 4 2009, 12:28 AM.
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Sionis
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At first, I believed the SC could be an actual improvement, something useful, even beneficial.
Then came Todd McCloud.
Then my very own Commend Jey went down in flames. (he didn't have the right RMB colors)
So I'm beyoond caring.
I only vote things SC-related so as to please the folks as my region, I have no passion for it whatsoever.
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Then my very own Commend Jey went down in flames. (he didn't have the right RMB colors)


Hhhm.. I've been thinking about that a lot lately. I have this sneaking suspicion that Jey did something to piss off a lot of people in NS a while back.

Quod seemed to be absolutely livid about him -- but he is about me too, so that must mean Jey is a great person. :D

But in all seriousness though Quod did bring up an important argument, Jey's repeals were of really, really shitty proposals that could have been repealed by an armless monkey (coming from the guy who can't get a un-spell checked, unjust condemnation repealed).

I'm just saying, there might be more to it than you think, Sionis.


Edited by unibot, Oct 4 2009, 05:03 AM.
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Sionis
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Oct 4 2009, 04:43 AM
Quote:
 
Then my very own Commend Jey went down in flames. (he didn't have the right RMB colors)


Hhhm.. I've lately been thinking about that a lot lately. I have this sneaking suspicion that Jey did something to piss off a lot of people in NS a while back.

Quod seemed to be absolutely livid about him -- but he is about me too, so that must mean Jey is a great person. :D

But in all seriousness though Quod did bring up an important argument, Jey's repeals were of really, really shitty proposals that could have been repealed by an armless monkey (coming from the guy who can't get a un-spell checked, unjust condemnation repealed).

I'm just saying, there might be more to it than you think, Sionis.


I somewhat get your point...

I mean, just look at all those godawful first NSUN Resolutions... I'd be ashamed to be associated with a body like that. Fortunately, when I came around, the World Assembly was implemented already, and it made a great impression of respectability by the awesome quality of its texts.

My understanding is that the SC shouldn't have to pass through the same learning curve, since there was this obvious precedent at home... but I was wrong. Only when the SC can get all that mountains of shit repealed, and SERIOUS Resolutions in the mould of my Commend Jey passed, I simply do not see tha value of merit, with Todd McClouds defecating all over the place just to rub in everybody's face he can do so, and everybody be damned.
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Sionis
 
with Todd McClouds defecating all over the place just to rub in everybody's face he can do so


I have to admit it pissed me off when he said he'd break the Fourth Wall for the sake of breaking the fourth wall again with 'Commend Goobergunchia'

"The Commend Kandarin one has the fourth wall broken, and this one will have that as well" ~ Todd McCloud.

Hhhm... I hope I can sway someone into seeing that "Commend Kandarin" goes beyond the scope of the category by not only commending the nation, but a player -- which it technically can't.
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Minyos

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Though I must agree with Sheep's general idea, that Alsted effected the vote by quite a bit. Does Alsted have the right to? Yes, yes he does. But it is generally agreed upon due to the sheepish nature of WA voters that large regions should abstain from voting till a natural vote can form (a few hours). I don't complain however when Alsted votes for my proposals as soon as they hit the floor -- because, well, I'm a politician


I disagree on the Free Trade resolution. 225 votes is not enough in the longer run on an issue that people do have strong opinions on - or the issue is one of general knowledge). IF Alsted's vote influenced other large voting blocs to vote AGAINST, perhaps. But otherwise, no I would disagree. This passed easily in the UN, but economic hard times had not hit the average person in the developed world. THis time around, most developed RL nations are in recession - and all because of improper and frankly stupid banking/Fed. Reserve recisions in the US. The average person is now a bit more cynical about globalisation! Hence, a distrust of WA FTA.

On issues where a voter may have little knowledge, or even interest, sure. But the averafe Joe has an opinion about international free trade and globalisation, so...

Anyway, AO can't have it both ways. 225 votes against on FTA sunk it, yet according to Gob, 225 votes, and Alsted affect nothing. Which is it to be? :)
Edited by Minyos, Oct 4 2009, 07:58 AM.
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Minyos
 
I disagree on the Free Trade resolution. 225 votes is not enough in the longer run on an issue that people do have strong opinions on - or the issue is one of general knowledge). IF Alsted's vote influenced other large voting blocs to vote AGAINST, perhaps.


Well where me and the other ambassadors have been getting the idea of early delegate voting effecting the vote largely comes from research and observation.

If we look back on WA voting history, there are very few occurrences of a runaway proposal that ends up being defeated, or even just a comeback for that matter.

The brunt of voters tend to judge their views on the proposal at hand by two factors,
  • The name of the proposal, and its implications
  • The current voting "score" (for or against)


If a proposal gets more than fifty percent votes against it, it rarely will survive -- as it merely continues to get on the wrong side of the sheepish voters, who tend to vote in the masses, and are essential to getting a proposal passed.

The reason why we call what Alsted is doing, "Vote Stacking", is because he lays his 250 whopper against or for a proposal, and the sheep vote stacks on top of wherever he puts his votes.

Thus, the Sheep vote is the facet of democracy.
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Sionis
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Oct 4 2009, 06:32 PM
Thus, the Sheep vote is the facet of democracy.
Indeed. That's why, from very early on, I placed a heavy importance on TG'ing ALL the Delegates... all Delegates want is some love :D
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Indeed. That's why, from very early on, I placed a heavy importance on TG'ing ALL the Delegates... all Delegates want is some love


Indeed.
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