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Class's Thing?; Peoples thoughts?
Topic Started: Jun 17 2008, 12:09 AM (2,368 Views)
JaminCollins

TempesT
Jun 19 2008, 03:27 PM
wait wait, jamincollins = blackthorne? xD
Yup, always has.
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Blackthorne in EL
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TempesT

pro, thx for showing me where the female orcs are as i was 30 a/d ;D
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JaminCollins

TempesT
Jun 19 2008, 03:39 PM
pro, thx for showing me where the female orcs are as i was 30 a/d ;D
:blink: so, I'm somewhat responsible for the ebul TempesT... hmmmm... Oh well, good times.
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Blackthorne in EL
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TempesT

evil? im happy friendly harvester :(


come visit mi at roses bush plssssss <3
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JaminCollins

From conavar's Post:
Quote:
 
Its called give and take people, if players were not so quick to piss on the class idea before they had even listened to any compromises or differant idea's.. then maybe just maybe a solution might have been found to pick point buying.

You've got to be kidding. Stop deluding yourself. The problems with the pick point buying were pointed out before the system was added. Did Entropy listen? No. I can't currently search the official forums or I'd provide links to the discussions.

and from another of conavar's:
Quote:
 
Ah you see, wether those 5,10,15 players like it or not (read Ents quote) those players are to blame for any good idea's they might have in the future being rejected

Nope. Entropy is to blame. He should be the bigger man and look at each suggestion (regardless of source) and judge it based on merit of the suggestion alone. The fact that he's acting like a spoiled child is solely his problem. The temper tantrums he throws are his problem. Unfortunately, he decides to lash out at his player base as a result.

Entropy may be quite intelligent, he may have great ideas for his game, but you can only abuse your player base for so long. That time may be lengthened by a lack of alternatives, but at some point the players will stop accepting the abuse and leave. Sure new players will arrive, it will take them some time to see what is happening, but eventually they will and they will leave too.
Edited by JaminCollins, Jun 19 2008, 04:28 PM.
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Blackthorne in EL
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Conavar
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JaminCollins
Jun 19 2008, 04:18 PM

The fact that he's acting like a spoiled child is solely his problem. The temper tantrums he throws are his problem.
Very true.. but some players are also guilty of having temper tantrums and throwing there toys out there prams over any new idea.. or is it ok that they do so ?

I have no sympathy for any person who doesnt base there replys on a sensible rational thought.... and that includes both teh boss and the players.

Yes maybe people did speak up against the pp idea in the past, all the power to them. but errmmm we are not talking about the past, we are talking about the now and the future ( maybe some players live to much in the good ole EL past).


It just seemed to me a stupid thing to do: piss on the class idea, hear Radu's reaction and then debate a possible change that they might like to suit them, in the same bloody thread ^o) lol
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JaminCollins

Conavar
Jun 19 2008, 04:35 PM
JaminCollins
Jun 19 2008, 04:18 PM

The fact that he's acting like a spoiled child is solely his problem. The temper tantrums he throws are his problem.
Very true.. but some players are also guilty of having temper tantrums and throwing there toys out there prams over any new idea.. or is it ok that they do so ?

I have no sympathy for any person who doesnt base there replys on a sensible rational thought.... and that includes both teh boss and the players.

Yes maybe people did speak up against the pp idea in the past, all the power to them. but errmmm we are not talking about the past, we are talking about the now and the future ( maybe some players live to much in the good ole EL past).


It just seemed to me a stupid thing to do: piss on the class idea, hear Radu's reaction and then debate a possible change that they might like to suit them, in the same bloody thread ^o) lol
If the same player throws a tantrum over and over again without providing any reasoning, then ignore them. People will learn their pattern of behavior just as you did. Unfortunately, Entropy is the developer. It's not possible to completely ignore him and play the game. So, many try to put up with his behavior as long as they can to play the game. As a developer, he should hold himself to a higher behavioral requirement than he holds his players, not the reverse.

The fact that the issues were pointed out previously shows that Entropy did not listen to reason. The current situation was accurately forecasted by several players as I recall. I know it was one of the scenarios that instantly jumped to mind for me. Yet he blew it off, as I recall. This points to a potential pattern of behavior from him. Again, with search ability on the original forums I believe I could provide links and evidence in this regard.

The class idea is flawed as others have pointed out. Additionally, as others have also pointed out, part of the original allure of EL is that it is classless. I know I was shocked when I heard that he was considering adding classes to the game. Sure some will try to say that the classes are optional. However, any player that decides to not use the system will be at a disadvantage competing against those that do use it. To this people will say that anyone can use the class system. At which point it isn't very optional is it? To compete effectively against someone using it, you too must use it. It becomes something of an arms race.
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Conavar
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I totally agree with most of your points ( apart from class one see below).

In the first post your quoted above, I wasnt intending to take one side or the other, or even to say who is right or wrong (if it came over that way my bad). I was just pointing out that sometimes players have to be responsible for there own actions.
Im all for players standing by their beliefs but sometimes they do come with repercussions and sometimes they need to be thought about before people go off on one.


The class idea as originally posted was to overpowerful, but imo it could have been tweaked and refined (with the right pro's and con's)so as not to infringe on people who didnt want to take the perks, especially if it had moved away from soley PK classes to include the whole of EL
Edited by Conavar, Jun 19 2008, 05:21 PM.
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JaminCollins

Conavar
Jun 19 2008, 05:20 PM
The class idea as originally posted was to overpowerful, but imo it could have been tweaked and refined (with the right pro's and con's)so as not to infringe on people who didnt want to take the perks, especially if it had moved away from soley PK classes to include the whole of EL
Perhaps it could have. However, Entropy (as he seems to frequently) decided to throw a fit and quash the possibility. Some will say this was due to some players pissing an moaning about the suggestion. However, at this point Entropy should have known what to expect even putting the suggestion out there. It's not unreasonable to expect that there will be nay sayers. Nor, is it unreasonable to expect that some will simply give their gut reaction as to why they feel a certain way. If he's not willing to take the time to have an honest, and open, discussion on the topic (which by his actions I would say he's not) then again, the problem is his.
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Aislar
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copmodwoman
dilly
Jun 19 2008, 01:38 PM
\o/ for Cruella!
i know i've loved her from when i read one of her first posts on el forums. i told her i thot she was awesome :D
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Conavar
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Very true and I for one would hate to see the game stagnate because both parties cant sit down and have an adult debate, no one is innocent in this ( including myself in some posts) the blame does swing both ways.


But o well tis all done and dusted now anyway


sooooooooooo the new perks :ermm:

edit: OMG ebul pp buyers can get more powerful summons now and ppl are happy :P
Edited by Conavar, Jun 19 2008, 05:41 PM.
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Mango
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10% is something totally different, than previous ideas lol.
SELL: MANGO CHAR 650$
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Cruella

Aislar
Jun 19 2008, 05:34 PM
dilly
Jun 19 2008, 01:38 PM
\o/ for Cruella!
i know i've loved her from when i read one of her first posts on el forums. i told her i thot she was awesome :D
many thanks sweety and the feeling is definitely mutual ;)

PS. Loved your full of f..ks post ;) :P
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Tirun

Hello Jamin. :) It is great to see you here and active. :)

Replying to your post. :)


Is their opinion somehow worth less because they like the game as it is?

No their opinion is not worth less. This was stated actually about the players who don't try to keep the changes from happening by participating in the discussion with reason and logic. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Should someone with money be allowed to buy anything in the game? If so, why not just cut out the middle man and give the money directly to Radu for any increase or item in game?
Anyone with enough money can effectively by anything in the game already. Just buy gold coin or buy items and sell them to get gold coin. If you get enough gold then nothing is beyond purchase. I assume the reason for not taking out the middleman is for appearance sake. I don't see the point myself. ;)


Should every idea that Entropy comes up with be added? Hell no. Everyone, and I do mean everyone, comes up with idiotic ideas from time to time. When they do, they need someone willing to tell them it's an idiotic idea. It just so happens that Entropy tends to go off when told his ideas aren't the best thing in the world.

I have fought Entropy every bit as hard as I have supported him. Usually when he has bad ideas they are massive whoppers. Making RoT the old school PK map was one of them. I fought until that changed. If Entropy does come up with an idea that is bad all the way around no matter how you twist it then you can count on me to fight him tooth and nail till ban, success or failure. :)

EL has some fundamental flaws that need to be resolved. Sure the game needs new features and new complexities, but the existing flaws are creating more and more problems going forward, and having more and more kludges added to deal with them.
Actually fixing the fundamental flaws will create a great deal more complexities and make the game a lot better but honestly I gave up on getting those fixed a long time ago. I can live with them and still play the game though I understand completely why you couldn't. :)

Being against Entropy's latest idea doesn't translate to the above.
Being against any idea does not constitute being against the game having more choices and being more personalized be Entropy's idea or not. Attacking ideas without alternatives or reasons that you are willing to post does..

Not everyone is willing to face the potential for a ban in order to voice their opinion and try to make the game better or prevent a bad idea from being added
I know someone who sends ideas through me just for that very reason. The problem is that you cannot have more than one voice on the forum. If everyone does not speak for themselves then we can't get a true picture of how the community feels. Entropy has to change something to change the response his players have to him on the forums. :((

Tirun
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Tirun

Entropy should lead by example and should keep himself to a higher standard so that his players will do the same or not complain when they are banned or punished for not doing so. IMHO I do not ever seeing this happen. I accepted that a long time ago and try to work within the framework he set up since he is the only one who can make the rules.

Trying to change Entropy doesn't help anyone. If you really want a shot at that then get to know Roja and see if you can get her to get him to listen. If he does listen to anyone on this planet she is that one person. Everyone else he does not give a rats ass about.(other family could be the exception)

If everyone just played by the rules Entropy sets out no matter how unfair they are then we might get somewhere. Overcoming injustice is not about demanding a fair hearing until you get one. It is about persevering until you are heard no matter the conditions. I hope we can see more people trying that in the future.

Tirun
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Shujral
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oldsk00l unoffic member
edit ftFUCKINw
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