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| Mages; do you hate 'em too? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 21 2008, 08:56 PM (2,462 Views) | |
| Dushan | Jun 8 2008, 01:12 PM Post #61 |
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And get cooldowned/mana burned from tiger/bear every second? no thanks IF breaking MI spell gets implemented, then it should require high lvl magic ... maybe not 80 but at least 70 |
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| Epitaph | Jun 8 2008, 11:56 PM Post #62 |
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You're dumb, stop posting idiotic ideas. Getting rid of or making a spell to break MI is a fucking stupid idea. Today, on NDD, I got harm killed by two people when I wasn't paying attention. You keep bitching about how MI ruins mages, etc, yet I've seen countless examples of people who do fine with MI. Mages are overpowered as they are, the only thing keeping them from owning pk completely is MI. "OH HAY GUISE, BEING ABLE TO HARM FOR LEIK 140 DAMAG IS NAWT ENOGH!!!111 LETZ MAKE IT SO NO1 CAN DEFEND FROM IT ETHER LOLO!!!" Fucking retards. |
| THE TIME FOR QUESTIONS IS OVER, NOW IS THE TIME FOR UNBRIDLED OPTIMISM! | |
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| Wizzy | Jun 9 2008, 02:35 AM Post #63 |
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I wouldnt say mages are over powered, a properly built mage with a high magic level could deal out 150 damage per hit. maybe more. A bod or a rod can deal out similar damage very quickly if you are not "paying attention" that being said, if a strong fighter attacks me, I have very little time to restore/diss as a mage build that I am (using myself for an example) has very very low p/c. I suffer with 300 emu atm. and overalls slow down a little after level 90 when you cant train a/d very well as fluffys like to eat me, and cant hit them very well. There is a give and take. It isnt all roses from this veiw point. With my low toughness / coordination and usully no armors, 2 hits from wolf sword owns me very very fast. A few times was so fast that I couldn't possibly dis fast enough. So I wouldnt say that breaking MI would ruin anything, If in mele combat I would say a good balance as who can click on MI again fast enough, or if attacked could I click on dis/tele fast enough to escape? It comes down to who is a skilled mouse clicker, exactly the same as it does in normal pk. Who clicks summon stone at the right time to catch dis, etc It will not ruin pk, it may change it a little. Dushan has a great point as summon tigers/bears etc their effects would be disasterous without MI. I agree fully. Perhaps a new spell "repel beasts" would replace that asspect of MI? In a fight summoning a zoo of bears with out MI would pawn anyone, fully agree. It would ruin pk. Summon stones where a bad idea imo, I just hope if there is a MI removal spell summon stones effects will be able to be dodged. No one likes to be pked, everyone likes the thrill of doing it. "Paying attention" is as good a plan as wearing a red cape when luci is on line. Wizz Edited by Wizzy, Jun 9 2008, 02:40 AM.
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| St_Arcane | Jun 9 2008, 06:10 AM Post #64 |
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YARR
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Look, Wizzy, a BoD has 6% chance of working and a RoD 0.5% chance... its a little different than harming every second out of combat and every 2seconds in combat. Also, like you said, there is a good reason for red cape, but it seems you have forgotten it also works as an anti-BoD. Also, its not the PK'ers fault if you have a shitty char build that lets you die in 2 hits, and lets every creature in the game pwn you, and while it would be nice if you could kill some PK'ers with your spells, that won't be the case, if your health is that low, you will still be the one walking out of the underworld. The only thing that will happen is PK will become an MD/Harm'ing fest. Also, if I could give you some advice: STOP TRYING TO FIND AN EASY WAY TO KILL PEOPLE IN PK, AND GO TRAIN A/D AND INCREASE P/C. And don't go telling me mag is a hard skill to level, to get to 60 mag (around what it takes to be top 200) is piss-easy compared to ~105 a/d (which is about what it takes to get to top 200). As for your 'repel beasts' spell idea, as nice as that sound, why not just drop the whole MI-breaking spell idea, and save the dev's the trouble of having to create 2 new spells and in doing so make the gameplay shittier? Edited by St_Arcane, Jun 9 2008, 07:17 AM.
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Courageous Unofficiallers Nullifying Treacherous Scammers![]() List of scammers (DO NOT TRADE WITH THIS PEOPLE): Life NoobPL Grort Life Marvel Aureliusz Orick DarkundY Life Maxine Korrode Hades SET SAIL, AWAY WITH FAIL!! | |
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| LiquiD | Jun 9 2008, 08:31 AM Post #65 |
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Chosen One
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Every new character made should be givin Yeti stats, and a 3Mgc worth of storage. ![]() And free unlimited supply o rosto stones.
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| :o | |
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| Cara | Jun 9 2008, 09:28 AM Post #66 |
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I'm sooooo against this whole break-MI thingy (sry Wizz). Even if I happen to be married to some ebul harmer out there I can still be unbiased. Of course Dug benefits from his earlier builds as a fighter (-> decent a/d) although his p/c is crappy. Anyone who saw him last night (NDD) must've noticed how he picked normal hand-to-hand fights as well. I think mage has plenty of other functions than merely harming. He can heal, smite summons etc etc. Whether all this is worth a rationality-build or not, is another question. Anyways, I don't object if some pkers have amnesia now and then, I like to see hubby happy.
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stfu and harvest, kk | |
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| Tirun | Jun 9 2008, 10:17 AM Post #67 |
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Guys can we please focus on the fact that Entropy said he is putting MI wards into the game? That means MI can be broken by anyone. No mage necessary. Can't we agree that this is a bad thing? Then we could give an alternative suggestion. If only mages could break MI then it would still be a hell of a lot better than everyone who can harvest lupines being able to do it right? Invisible noobs given MI breaking wards being dragged around by everyone. It might make potioners happy because they can sell tons of invis potions and poison antidotes but it would kill PK. If we at least get a mage 'class' based on attributes in game so that a/d players can't have both their a/d and mage powers too then we can have MI breaking as a very rare thing. Rare breaking MI mages is better than MI breaking wards. MI is going to get broken unless someone brainwashes Radu. Let's focus on getting behind a solid idea that will give him a good enough reason to not put in the wards. It has to be everyone and it has to be a good idea because the MI breaking wards are another money sink. Advantage to rich players in game and in RL and puts money in Radu's pocket. We need to give a reason not to give himself more bricks. Tirun |
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| Cara | Jun 9 2008, 10:38 AM Post #68 |
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I find it really hard to believe that Radu would ruin PK just like that. Did he mention anywhere how easy it will be to get this ward thingy (no idea what it is actually, my dictionary fails me), or what it will require to use? Don't think so. Of course I may be wrong and everything will be fucked up and that should be prevented but although many if not all of his implementations have been objected to, very few of them have really screwed up everything (though I admit some things could be better). |
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stfu and harvest, kk | |
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| LiquiD | Jun 9 2008, 01:14 PM Post #69 |
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Chosen One
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Oh my, I agree with Tirun, on.. something.. :o This will destroy PK, I won't PK with one of these things in-game, for sure. |
| :o | |
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| Walt_Her | Jun 9 2008, 05:38 PM Post #70 |
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I have been thinking about it too, and you are right here, i use MI myself on invasions, Learned the hardway during these ebul tiger/bear invasions Ace did a few times I agree that a lvl wear you can break though the MI would be better, which i all this time tried to tell, If like someone here said, Magic can be lvl'd fast then it only adds a way of pk'ing and a group of n00b fighters with decent magic (first 35 are hard the next 15 lvl's are easy after that its just focus on the one skill instead of a/d) can own the few very strong fighters too. remember, pk is pretty often, from what ti have been seeing the few times i have been there to watch, more or less a fight of the riches (who can burn the most stones, or has most expansive armour) and is much less about skill, if it was there would be more lvl 60-80'ish going to every now and then. those who should the hardest it will kill pk here are the slaughters that owned every newbie that walked in on an NDD. last night a simple mage walked into KF. after the few seconds of not being attackable he got owned by Ca$h, and not just 1 or even 2 fighters... that was only the first time, no he got raped by 5 or more... all with at least a great sword and there best armour, So tell me who are you all afraid of ? Toom? Asggny? Lucy ?? they eat your guts anyway. or maybe its time your guild's starts recruiting not alone the best fighters but add some mage's too. I am not saying MI should be taken out, but i am sure its a way to strong spell and i believe magic could just add that nice piece to pk so also the lower a/d's (and those who have time to train but not the $$$ to buy expansive armour) can join in and don't have to wait till first fighters hit oa178. and still get owned. for me its only trying to open the discussion and (with me poor English) trying to show my point of view here on a offensive skill that is way too less used. |
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| Shujral | Jun 9 2008, 10:02 PM Post #71 |
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oldsk00l unoffic member
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We need an unofficial qotw thread... |
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| Tirun | Jun 10 2008, 01:01 AM Post #72 |
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There is no single way that Entropy can stop the wards from being abused. Only buyable from NPC? Oops money is easy for anyone in game to get if they are determined. Harverst, drop fight or pay someone to harvest for you with stuff they can't get. Pay RL money for gold coin and get even more that way too. Makable by players but ings are hard to get? Are you kidding me? Pay someone with the nexus needed to go get it. Same as before it is just money. Only made by high level players? Is anyone in game hated by so many players that they can't get stuff made by high level players? NOT!!! Even indiscriminate branchers(who will branch anyone even on NDD) and bag jumpers can get stuff made for them. ![]() If people really want to kill high level players with MI wards they are going to find a way to get a ton of them and then run around with an invisible newbie in tow using them for them. We need to get behind an attribute based mage class like I suggested on the EL forum and just get Entropy to make the MI breaking spell or anything like it made to be massively hard to get just like JSoC and Greaves of Uber Defense etc... Having a couple of top players and couple of RL rich players being able to cast MI breaking spell is a thousand times better than some freaking object that anyone can get their hands on. Tirun |
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| Korrode | Jun 10 2008, 01:32 AM Post #73 |
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LNX Warlord
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Cant argue with that logic. Edited by Korrode, Jun 10 2008, 01:32 AM.
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"How can one ordinary man have so many enemies?" "I'm a people person... who drinks." | |
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| Epitaph | Jun 10 2008, 02:02 AM Post #74 |
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How about we say fuck it and stop PKing if he puts this shit into the game. :/ |
| THE TIME FOR QUESTIONS IS OVER, NOW IS THE TIME FOR UNBRIDLED OPTIMISM! | |
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| Tirun | Jun 10 2008, 02:35 AM Post #75 |
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IMO you will get the same response as you usually get when you tell Entropy that you are going to quit. "Go right ahead it will just make room for new players at the top." Trying to stop Radu from doing something completely is next to impossible while getting him to do something similar instead is a LOT easier to do. Start a thread on the EL forum telling Entropy that you will quit if he puts in the MI breaking ward without giving him an alternative and ask everyone else to back you up. See how Entropy reacts. Good luck with that. I can't say I will be there to support you because he already knows I almost never PK and especially not outside of NDD days. I have my idea which is the only alternative I have seen so far that Radu might go with but everyone is still trying to force Radu to stop what he is doing instead. Saying you will do this or that without giving an idea a chance is almost guaranteed to get Radu to do exactly what he wants to do and tell you to take a flying leap. The only chance I see of you getting MI breaking wards to not be part of EL is to tell Radu you will give it a chance for a couple of weeks or even a month and then if it kills PK you stop PKing. If everyone does this then you have a chance of getting him to take them out completely without MI breaking anything in game. I have never seen this happen with his other ideas that were not popular so good luck with it. Tirun |
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| Korrode | Jun 10 2008, 06:24 PM Post #76 |
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LNX Warlord
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Backup idea if Radu isn't interested in Tirun's attribute based mage system and has his heart set on making MI breakable: Break MI spell (better than it being 'wards' that anyone can get/use) Required magic level: 55 So 50% chance to fail casting the the spell initially at mag 55. Mag 83 for no fail cast. I think thats fair Casting cost: 80 mana No cost if initial casting fails (like all spells), but still costs if spell is defended against (unlike other spells) So the spell is quite risky to cast for a person already engaged in close quarters combat Irregularity: If spell is defended against, it will not make an invisible person visible (unlike other spells) Keep the pure mages happy, they wont get a rosto poofed everytime the spell is defended against Formula: (d50 means the result of a roll of a 50 sided dice) attack roll: ((rat x2) + (mag x0.5)) + d50 = att_result defend roll: (rat + (mag x1.5)) + d50 = def_result att_result must be higher than def_result for spell to be successful. The attack roll highly favours a Pure Mage build, and ensures high rationality increases the success chances significantly. The defend roll ensures close quarters combat characters who have still put a lot of work into their magic level have a good chance to defend against this spell, while still giving a decent bonus for rationality. IF Radu has his heart set on MI being breakable and doesn't want to make significant changes to the effect of attributes, this hopefully wouldn't "screw pk", but would still make the 'Mage' a viable, powerful class... if built right. |
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"How can one ordinary man have so many enemies?" "I'm a people person... who drinks." | |
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| MiiX | Jun 10 2008, 07:06 PM Post #77 |
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I don't like the idea. It really would ruin pk IMO. U are fighting with someone and he breaks your MI whole time and then summons hundred tigers etc. That just wouldn't be fun to push MI on whole time and use dozens of MI essies in one fight. Secondly mages would be too strong after that. Now they need more tactic when fighting. They fights someone until they forgot to put MI on again and then harm him or so. Someone said here, that it would be really hard to break someone's MI and then harm him to death, w/o he attacks u. But that's not true. First break MI, then harm after 1 sec and second harm after another sec. At least dugur kills most peeps with 2 harms. So that's 3 seconds. It's really hard to notice what's happening and restore and put MI again on and u should attack the mage etc. Would be impossible to survive, if mage really wants to kill u and uses MI breaking spell. I'm pretty sure I would stop playing EL if this spell will be implemented. It just makes mages too strong. Sorry my bad English
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SAD PANDA NEEDS A HUG STREE AGREES WITH ME™ | |
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| Korrode | Jun 10 2008, 07:34 PM Post #78 |
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LNX Warlord
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I also am against an MI spell that costs low mana and easily just breaks MI... in fact, i am against MI breaking all together, screw the mages. But if it's coming no matter what, my spell would not result in the kind of thing you describe in your post Miiks (not saying that your post was specifically a response to mine, i realise it's probably a general statement about breaking MI). Before anyone comments on my potential spell suggestion, please actually do the math. Run some examples of yourself and the likely stats of other PK'ers through the calculation and see the results. With that calculation a very strong mage (say 85 mag and 48 rat) would not break my MI 100% of the time (although they would have a fairly good chance to break it, well over 50%). Assuming Walt's alt is 60 mag and ~24 rat, up against an average DPa PK'er with ~12 rat and ~40 mag he'd have a just over 50% chance to break their MI. ...I didn't just slap that spell formula together in a few seconds without considering the consequences.
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"How can one ordinary man have so many enemies?" "I'm a people person... who drinks." | |
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| TempesT | Jun 10 2008, 07:41 PM Post #79 |
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MI break spell: 20% chance to break MI, and x% more for whatever shit. and if it fails... it should turn around to urself. |
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| Shujral | Jun 10 2008, 11:24 PM Post #80 |
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oldsk00l unoffic member
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I'm sorry but you're wrong. Read the following quote
This MI breakage will do exactly that (cause dozen's, maybe 100's of players to leave [or at least stop pking].) If someone made a thread, and every single dissatisfied person 'signed' it, saying they would quit PK/EL, do you honestly think he wouldn't reconsider? a large part of EL for radu is business, and I'm sure a good chunk of his moolah comes from the PKers. [If anyone *does* want to make a petition, make sure to keep an updated list of the names in the first post...creates a nice effect.] Edited by Shujral, Jun 10 2008, 11:27 PM.
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