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| Air combat; We need more flying units :P | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 12 2010, 11:02 AM (1,869 Views) | |
| No_nickname | Jan 12 2010, 11:02 AM Post #1 |
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No_membertitle
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We already have some new, flying units like arrow knights and ruyters. Now Luke has also made a flying ship, which gave me the idea: we should make more flying ships ![]() This will add a new dimension to the game. You no longer fight only on land and on the water, but now also in the air. For example, we could make a bomber ship that is good against buildings. This ship can be powerful but have slow ROF and is slightly inaccurate, so is naturally countered by smaller gunner ships. These gunships are fast and fire quickly (maybe even machine-gun pace lol). Those ships are again countered by some other type of ships (lol idk what counters small airplanes in reality ), and those are countered by the bombing ships.Also, some other flying ship types could be like Lukes transporter ship, Jet ships and maybe a suicide bomber ![]() The only problem might be to find fitting ship types for these. Ideas: Gunner ships can be the Catamarans The "normal" combat ships can be caravels The suicide bombers can be Fire ships The jet ships can be canoes xD Transport ship can be Lukes flying dutchman ship (or maybe the dutch only can get this ship, while the other civs get replacements that for example cant stealth or something) idk about the bomber ship (maybe hot air balloons can fit this role?) Also a really powerful ship (a flying ironclad lol) can be available in age 5 with a build limit of 1. The flying ships obviously cant be attacked by melee units, but are countered by outposts/forts and artillery. Other ranged units can attack them to some extent, although they should have quite high ranged resistance IMO. The flying ships will require a seperate building to be trained from (Airfield/airport/hangar or w/e). Discuss. Ideas please ![]() |
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| mrckei | Jan 12 2010, 12:40 PM Post #2 |
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Kansler of the (I.C.A)
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how about changing the ducks you see flying on New england to petard ducks ?
Edited by mrckei, Jan 12 2010, 12:40 PM.
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| No_nickname | Jan 12 2010, 12:41 PM Post #3 |
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No_membertitle
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lol |
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| incognoto | Jan 12 2010, 01:14 PM Post #4 |
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Nub
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I love the idea of flying fighting.
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| SunnyDeeeee | Jan 12 2010, 02:39 PM Post #5 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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i did something to the ducks on NE btw ckei, i forget how i changed them though |
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| No_nickname | Jan 12 2010, 02:44 PM Post #6 |
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No_membertitle
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You made them herdable lol. |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Jan 12 2010, 02:48 PM Post #7 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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rofl, btw does that actually work? I don't play much on maps with ducks haha |
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| No_nickname | Jan 12 2010, 02:58 PM Post #8 |
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No_membertitle
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lol idk, never tested ![]() EDIT: Oh snap. Used my 331st post on this...
Edited by No_nickname, Jan 12 2010, 02:59 PM.
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| Mariomasta | Jan 12 2010, 03:56 PM Post #9 |
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Hmm, well at least give me credit for one of my few good ideas V.v dont claim you thought that. On a serious note Make a native tribe who use those ducks. As petard ducks xD. Iron clad should be stealth, and flying dutchmen can fly. Ironclads should be available to the euro civs, while dutchmen only for the dutch fluyts. Dont combine stealth and flying to the dutchmen, make dutch OP. Especially since they build units, building while stealth 0.O. Think about it, make a bunch of petards/grens/whatever uber late game, put on dutchmen, harbour in ship to hide, and unload near enemies tc/factories/wonders. A bit OP? flying so far are AK, flying crows, ruyters, hot air baloons What we should add, the dutchmen, polish winged hussars (keeping hussar skin the same, winged hussars different???), ninjas (since they could "walk on water", and leap buildings and whatnot) |
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Jan 12 2010, 04:27 PM Post #10 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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There's no one here who claims that he is the one who thought of a stealth ship (except for you, for obvious reasons). The fact that they can fly wasn't my idea, but was ckei's idea. He posted it in the modding/suggestions thread:
I thought that stealth fitted in great, because it makes the fluyt look more spooky.
OP or not depends on the stats we will give them. About the original idea Of Nick, I think it would be pretty cool. We have to ask ourselves the questions: Does every civ need his own RAF? Of course every civ needs to counter it, but that doesn't mean every civ has to have flying units. If every civ gets an own RAF, than they would all share the same units (which I wouldn't mind btw. |
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| Mariomasta | Jan 12 2010, 05:01 PM Post #11 |
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However cool it looks, im just not too sure about a flying and stealth ship. I can see that as becoming quite OP, for the reasons stated. Maybe if it didn't have the transport ability then i could sympathize with this... LOL if you made stealth petards too, dutch would be best lategame civ. Invis petards brought in with flying dutchman ship lol. |
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| No_nickname | Jan 12 2010, 05:51 PM Post #12 |
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No_membertitle
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Well it would be sort of cool if everybody could participate in the air fight. Also, civs that dont get it might end up UP then :S Maybe natives and asians can get unique ones though. And we need some unique civ-specific ones for the euros too IMO (like the flying dutchman for the dutch). Btw, what do you think about the bomber ships? Can hot air balloons fill this role, or do we need a new unit? (IMO we can add a new unit, balloons are kewl as they are )
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Jan 12 2010, 05:58 PM Post #13 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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We might run out of units though ![]() But yes, it would be cool if we could do all that.
I agree, balloons are cool, we need a new unit. |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Jan 12 2010, 07:49 PM Post #14 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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baloons should be king of the sky though so should get bonuses vs all other flying units
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| Mariomasta | Jan 12 2010, 08:52 PM Post #15 |
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How will we get a bomber like plane? Modify ships to make them planes??? |
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| Fuzzy | Jan 12 2010, 09:23 PM Post #16 |
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I <3 Sunil
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Make some flying animals huntable, make them fall out of the sky when they are shot lol |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Jan 13 2010, 01:08 AM Post #17 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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birds?
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| mrckei | Jan 13 2010, 06:31 AM Post #18 |
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Kansler of the (I.C.A)
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I took a screenie of some flying stuff i think u should give the rocket to russia and rename it to sputnik
Edited by mrckei, Jan 13 2010, 06:40 AM.
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| incognoto | Jan 13 2010, 07:23 AM Post #19 |
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Nub
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Try to get the flying crow's crow to be a flying unit. :p |
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| Mariomasta | Jan 13 2010, 07:44 AM Post #20 |
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it is, just not on patchnotes i dont think |
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| No_nickname | Jan 13 2010, 11:31 AM Post #21 |
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No_membertitle
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Yeah lol. There are plenty of ships, but some of them we cant use (we cant make flying monitors for example, it will just look too ugly ).Thats a good idea
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| T_Cfc119 | Jan 13 2010, 11:35 AM Post #22 |
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nub officer111
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way ahead of you i thought of that too. great minds think alike :L
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| owns | Jan 13 2010, 12:53 PM Post #23 |
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the OWNER
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what about some flying buildings?:) ouposts that can fly and move xD |
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| No_nickname | Jan 13 2010, 02:11 PM Post #24 |
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No_membertitle
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lol Outposts are supposed to counter flying units, not fly lol. Maybe make banks fly? xD |
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| Fuzzy | Jan 13 2010, 03:55 PM Post #25 |
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I <3 Sunil
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nah, but i like the make flying things huntable lul |
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| Lord_Sami | Jan 13 2010, 04:14 PM Post #26 |
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Recon King
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I think this is going too far.. I like the flying ghost ship idea though. |
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| Mariomasta | Jan 13 2010, 04:15 PM Post #27 |
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Aren't dutch OP enough with flying dutchman/OP banks/bankwagon/flying ruyters???flying banks would just be ridiculous. On top of 150 pop of military space, closeby flying ships and flying banks. WTF is the opponent supposed to do to stop that??? |
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| ĺ×ļ | Jan 13 2010, 06:24 PM Post #28 |
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China Lamer
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I'm fine with the flying idea, as long as you guys don't take it too far. IMO this is all you really need All you really need is three tags: Flying, heavy flying, and light flying Fighter (light flying)-canoe for euros and TWC, catamaran for TAD- good vs "heavy" flying units, but cannot attack ground units and are very weak to siege and boats. (High attack, low hp) Warship (heavy flying)- That pirate junk ship thingy for all civs except Dutch- good vs ground units and are somewhat resistant to artillery, but are weak vs fighters. Can transport units but are slow and cost a lot. (Medium attack, high hp) Bomber (heavy flying)- Not really sure yet, but I guess we can go with a special siege balloon if we can't think of anything else. These guys are resistant to siege and are good vs buildings and ships, but are slow and weak to everything else. (High attack, low hp) So basically; light flying get bonus vs heavy flying but cannot attack ground units or ships. heavy flying get bonus vs inf and cav but are weak vs light flying and bombers are sort of in their own class, but atm putting them with heavy flying is fine. |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Jan 13 2010, 06:25 PM Post #29 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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i fail to see how flying banks would change dutch in any way? The banks already do move you know. |
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| ĺ×ļ | Jan 13 2010, 06:26 PM Post #30 |
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China Lamer
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BTW these units are only available in the industrial age, and are trained from outposts. |
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| Mariomasta | Jan 13 2010, 07:16 PM Post #31 |
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They attack right? So basically they can get a whole army or 150 pop and x flying warships, and like 6 banks or so, that all attack and bypass all walls or can attack from behind by sea. I just dont like how they ignore the land completely, go directly into an opponents base, and wreak havoc. Don't do it, it will be OP. May not look OP, but when tcfc tests it out (assuming he test properly), he will find that too... |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Jan 13 2010, 10:28 PM Post #32 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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they currently can go through water, they are "flying" movement units, but don't float in mid air. Also only get attack after BB which is currently bugged. |
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Jan 14 2010, 03:14 AM Post #33 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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![]() Dutch can only get 5 banks until Imperial ![]() I like the idea of 1x1. |
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| Mariomasta | Jan 14 2010, 06:17 AM Post #34 |
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until imperial right??? so ha Xd. |
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Jan 14 2010, 07:06 AM Post #35 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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Yes, and in Imperial they can get 2 more... |
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| No_nickname | Jan 14 2010, 01:36 PM Post #36 |
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No_membertitle
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1x1s idea sounds good. Although I would like to see a jet plane too xD And btw Mario, banks flying wont change a thing, except that they now float in the air instead of on the ground. |
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| Mariomasta | Jan 14 2010, 03:35 PM Post #37 |
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And if i remember attack???? so they fly and attack, which si what i was worried about. 150 pop+flying attacking banks+ flying ships. |
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| ĺ×ļ | Jan 14 2010, 03:59 PM Post #38 |
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China Lamer
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So anyway, to expand on my previous suggestion, I would now like to suggest costs and stats of the new air units. Light Fighter (Canoe/Catamaran) Cost: 300 wood 300 coin Build limit 5, no population cost Speed: 7.5 HP: 250 RR: 75% Attack: 80 ranged, x1.5 vs heavyflying, 20 range, shoots lasers, ROF 3 -No siege -Cannot attack buildings or ground units -Can only be attacked by buildings, ships, and other flying units Airship (wokou junk for all civs except dutch) Cost: 1000 wood 1000 coin Built limit 2, no population cost Speed: 6.75 HP: 2000 SR: 50% Attack: 200 siege, 14 range, lasers, ROF 6 -Can attack all units -Can only be attacked by buildings, ships, and other flying units. Bomber (balloon) Cost: 500 w 500 c Build limit 2, no population cost Speed: 5 HP: 500 SR: 75% Attack: 1000 siege, 14 range, bomb, ROF 6 -Can only attack buildings and ships Notes: All defensive buildings, artillery and ships now gain x2 vs light flying. Culverin or equivalent gain x4 bonus (or somethign like that) Other flying units (ruyters, AK, etc) cannot attack flying ships with the exception of AK which are supposed to counter them -idk what to do with flying dutchman yet |
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| Mariomasta | Jan 14 2010, 05:01 PM Post #39 |
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I know XD. /delete |
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Jan 14 2010, 06:04 PM Post #40 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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Thank you 1x1! I don't know if everything is possible, especially things like this :
But it's definitely worth a try. |
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| ĺ×ļ | Jan 14 2010, 06:08 PM Post #41 |
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China Lamer
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I think the part where you can only attack buildings and ships is easily doable, because that's exactly what the mortar does. But if the other stuff doesn't work maybe you could just give an extremely low multiplier so it wouldn't do any damage anyway? PS: this stuff really needs to be tested lol, idk how it would affect balance |
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| No_nickname | Jan 15 2010, 12:23 PM Post #42 |
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No_membertitle
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You can make units only attack certain unit classes. However, idk if there is a "flying unit" tag to use for flying units. |
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Jan 15 2010, 03:55 PM Post #43 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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There's a <flag> for FlyingUnit, I don't know if that will work. Is it possible to add unit tags? |
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| ĺ×ļ | Jan 15 2010, 04:52 PM Post #44 |
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China Lamer
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yeah that's kinda what I was hoping on lol ![]() |
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| No_nickname | Jan 15 2010, 05:52 PM Post #45 |
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No_membertitle
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I dont think you can add unit tags (never tried though), but if there is a <flag> for flying units then that is great
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| ĺ×ļ | Jan 15 2010, 06:29 PM Post #46 |
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China Lamer
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Hmm if you can't add heavyflying or lightflying tags then just boost light fighter attack to 160, and that should be fine since both heavyflying units have siege resistance |
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| Mariomasta | Jan 16 2010, 10:50 AM Post #47 |
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That seems adequate |
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| lokomaniaco | Jan 21 2010, 09:11 PM Post #48 |
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nub
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the flag should work, you can add flags to units but it can't be like FlyingUnit LandUnit |
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| No_nickname | Jan 26 2010, 08:10 AM Post #49 |
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No_membertitle
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What do you guise think about this: You can only train one type of ship from a building. This will be a ship that improves each age and is trained from the TC. It will be called "Mothership" or something. From it, you can train all other ship types. This ship can also garrison other ships, and maybe repair neaby airships like a dock (its really a flying dock with an attack lol). It should be a flying ironclad IMO ![]() Also, I think it would be cool if it had a low attack but like 0.5 ROF or something, just for fun (laz0rs of course)Btw, I think the build limits 1x1 suggested are a bit low. IMO increase them, and make the Admirality card also increase airship build limits. The other stats that 1x1 suggested are good though ![]() EDIT: Also I don't think we should use balloons as the bomber ships...balloons should stay in the same role as they currently are IMO. Also make the age2 balloon shipment improve advanced balloon stats, and move to age4. Edited by No_nickname, Jan 26 2010, 08:25 AM.
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| Lord_Sami | Jan 26 2010, 08:33 AM Post #50 |
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Recon King
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Tbh this is getting out of hand. Making so much flying objects and units will be happy to play against. |
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