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Stealth units; Which units should go stealth?
Topic Started: Jan 10 2010, 03:58 PM (1,562 Views)
_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Petards are still too good imo, I think their damage cap should be reduced.

But I was also a bit messing around and made the petards be able to go stealth *dead*

How would you guys feel about stealth petards?

If they would be stealthy, they probably needed to be nerfed even more.


Or maybe we could create another petard, which looks exactly the same but can only attack buildings. So every (euro) civ can chose between 2 types of petards, one that can attack units and one that can only attack buildings but can go stealth. (this is fairly easy to do, nitro petards are already a different unit so we can use them for that)

What do you think?

Edited by _Ha_Luke_331, Jan 10 2010, 04:00 PM.
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Mariomasta
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*Mario* *edits to say Ha_luke*

IMO the damage for the petard should be reduced, but have multiplier vs buildings increased so their building damage is the same. Stealth will be way OP
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
no don't make petards stealthed, that's germany's special ability :D
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ĺ×ļ
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China Lamer
Stealth petards are a bad idea. Seriously
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DukeLeto
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Refined Chaos
It would be funny if stealthed petards blew up your factories :P
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Mariomasta
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lmao i can imagine someone strategically placing them to simultaneously blow up all your tcs/factories/tps/forts/wonders all at once XD. Kick ass way to finish the game
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
ya meh and dux pwned 1x1 and nickname when i started german petard lamage :P, however that was on a much older patch
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Quote:
 
ya meh and dux pwned 1x1 and nickname when i started german petard lamage :P, however that was on a much older patch


Well that's with the OP petards.

I want to give it to a new petard that can't attack units and is drastically nerfed (both stat and cost wise) and maybe even a build limit.

But we should have more sneak attack units.

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Mariomasta
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BTW with these petard, if you blow up lets say a mill/plantation, do you kill/hurt the units on it too?

And we have for stealth coyote, tash, forest prowl, spy, scout, sioux warchief, gurka.

Only units i can see going stealth as of now are maybe teepees (invisble boost 212121), wardogs, and ironclads (LMAO). An invisble transporter for lategames would be cool XD.


Most other units would be OP in stealth
Edited by Mariomasta, Jan 11 2010, 07:52 AM.
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Quote:
 
BTW with these petard, if you blow up lets say a mill/plantation, do you kill/hurt the units on it too?


No, it would be just like the old petards from RE, with nerfed stats and maybe even a buid limit (so you can't bring in 20 petards at once and wipe out a whole base).

Quote:
 
And we have for stealth coyote, tash, forest prowl, spy, scout, sioux warchief, gurka.


Spy/warchief/scout aren't for sneak attacks in someone's base.

And for coyotes you'll need a card.

I think there are just too few units for sneaky stealth attacks. It would be nice if people actually had to use outpost/scouting units to prevent them from some awesome stealth attacks.

Quote:
 
An invisble transporter for lategames would be cool XD.


Ghost ship! Awesome!

Finally you are giving a good idea :P

Quote:
 
Most other units would be OP in stealth


If we look at RE patch, stealth is almost never used except for scouting with a free unit.

No one is sending the stealth coyote card (at least I have never seen it)

Tashunkes are never used (but maybe they will in FP)

I don't see much forest prowlers, but that's because most games vs Iro are decided before Fortress. And even if they do go to Fortress they use musket riders.

Are JPK OP?

A new stealth unit might need to be nerfed a bit, but it isn't necessarily OP.

EDIT: Maybe petards aren't the best idea, which unit(s) should go stealth?
Edited by _Ha_Luke_331, Jan 11 2010, 08:27 AM.
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Maybe we can make the ninja even more a sneaky siege unit.

- Pop 2
- Huge HP nerf
- Siege attack boosted, from 60 to 120

What do you think?
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No_nickname
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No_membertitle
Ninja change sounds good. Maybe even more siege though? :P

Also, what about stealh Envoys? Or stealth sheep? :P :P Or stealth Settler Wagons? :P

Or stealth banks lol. And they should be able to transport units :P

Also Advanced hot air balloons should be able to stealth.
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
stealth sheep sounds awesome IMO
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
_Ha_Luke_331
Jan 11 2010, 03:06 AM
Quote:
 
ya meh and dux pwned 1x1 and nickname when i started german petard lamage :P, however that was on a much older patch


Well that's with the OP petards.

I want to give it to a new petard that can't attack units and is drastically nerfed (both stat and cost wise) and maybe even a build limit.

But we should have more sneak attack units.

you coul;d just remove the ability for units like explorers to spot styealthed units then people would use them more cause then they dont get spotted every 5 minutes
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Mariomasta
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Quote:
 
Ghost ship! Awesome!

Finally you are giving a good idea :P


Can i have a mario yes???? *mario* *edits to mario yes*
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ĺ×ļ
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China Lamer
ghost ship: flying fluyt with stealth :P
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Kyle
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Something witty/random goes here
Villies that can go stealth to hide from raids! :O
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Mariomasta
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IMO to change ninjas, reduce damage to 15, reduce multiplier to x3. add an assasination attack (one hit kill on minor natives/mercs/explorer/whatever they get multiplier on) and boost siege to 75. Keep rest the same, or you can reduce hp if this is still OP
Edited by Mariomasta, Jan 11 2010, 06:36 PM.
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
_Ha_Luke_331
Jan 11 2010, 08:25 AM
Quote:
 
BTW with these petard, if you blow up lets say a mill/plantation, do you kill/hurt the units on it too?


No, it would be just like the old petards from RE, with nerfed stats and maybe even a buid limit (so you can't bring in 20 petards at once and wipe out a whole base).

Quote:
 
And we have for stealth coyote, tash, forest prowl, spy, scout, sioux warchief, gurka.


Spy/warchief/scout aren't for sneak attacks in someone's base.

And for coyotes you'll need a card.

I think there are just too few units for sneaky stealth attacks. It would be nice if people actually had to use outpost/scouting units to prevent them from some awesome stealth attacks.

Quote:
 
An invisble transporter for lategames would be cool XD.


Ghost ship! Awesome!

Finally you are giving a good idea :P

Quote:
 
Most other units would be OP in stealth


If we look at RE patch, stealth is almost never used except for scouting with a free unit.

No one is sending the stealth coyote card (at least I have never seen it)

Tashunkes are never used (but maybe they will in FP)

I don't see much forest prowlers, but that's because most games vs Iro are decided before Fortress. And even if they do go to Fortress they use musket riders.

Are JPK OP?

A new stealth unit might need to be nerfed a bit, but it isn't necessarily OP.

EDIT: Maybe petards aren't the best idea, which unit(s) should go stealth?
read my idea about removing the see stealth for some units
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Fuzzy
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I <3 Sunil
If you're going to make more units stealth, maybe have some detector units? Hot air baloons?
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Mariomasta
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explorers???? oh wait xD.
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ĺ×ļ
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China Lamer
Remember that I have already suggested a change to ninjas which gives them a x2 or something inf bonus, but maybe you could reduce hp to 200 and increase attack to 30? That would be fair imo. Also I think that gurkas should be able to stealth to fit into their role of snipers better, if it isn't to OP to get your units picked off by invisible 40 range guys :P
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Mariomasta
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Gurkas already are, patchnotes noob xD.

Maybe we can give euro explorers a larger role later in game, like the asians/wc's. They already have crackshot/guardian snipe, good. Swashbuckler available with card, but even so is that enough??? They are just a high hp low damage musketeer late game tbh. Maybe give a patriotism card which boosts units with aura, which should increase when they win a battle (when they start cheering at the end when opponent retreats/dies. and give them stealth to make good scouters too, since euro has no stealth units besides spy.
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Have you guys ever heard of the legendary Flying Dutchman?
Posted Image
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No_nickname
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No_membertitle
loool OP :P
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incognoto
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Nub
Just wp. :)
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
rofl OP :D, make dutch fluyts be flying dutchmen?
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No_nickname
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No_membertitle
read my thread sunilnub :P

EDIT: btw, my next post will be my 331st post :O
Edited by No_nickname, Jan 12 2010, 02:47 PM.
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Mariomasta
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yes make fluyts= flying dutchmen, flying, invis ships (cost considerably more tho like 1.5x). And make ironclads have stealth too. invis mortar unit xD. fun, fun, fun.
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Quote:
 
make dutch fluyts be flying dutchmen?


That was the idea, yes.

Quote:
 
And make ironclads have stealth too. invis mortar unit xD. fun, fun, fun.


I think we'll keep fluyts the only invisible ship.
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Mariomasta
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Quote:
 
I think we'll keep fluyts the only invisible ship.


lame, dutch would have both the invisible and flying ship. On a water map they will kick everyones ass, all they need is a small patch of water, even on GP they will rape everyone late game.

Dutch=flying, ironclad=stealth
Edited by Mariomasta, Jan 12 2010, 05:03 PM.
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Quote:
 


lame, dutch would have both the invisible and flying ship. On a water map they will kick everyones ass, all they need is a small patch of water, even on GP they will rape everyone late game.


They don't need water for the Flying Dutchman *dead*
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
_Ha_Luke_331
Jan 12 2010, 05:33 PM
Quote:
 


lame, dutch would have both the invisible and flying ship. On a water map they will kick everyones ass, all they need is a small patch of water, even on GP they will rape everyone late game.


They don't need water for the Flying Dutchman *dead*
they do for a dock
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
You have shipments for them :P

And if we add in Nick's idea, they will get a whole new building :)
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ĺ×ļ
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China Lamer
Can't send shipments without water spawn point, now can you :P
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
we can fix that i believe :D,

however mario is right, a flying ship that can stealth is pretty lame, IMO just don't let it stealth
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Mariomasta
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OMG I WUZ CORRECT ABOUT SOMETHING OP.


*Mario*
Edited by SunilD93, Jan 12 2010, 08:48 PM.
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DukeLeto
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Refined Chaos
Nope :P
IMO leave as it is :D
A fluyt sorta sucks anyhow, if it was an invisible flying petard...
Or a fleet of tatloc canoes that can fly and stealth :P
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Mariomasta
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2. Flying and trainable units is OP as it is. And tlathoc canoes are OP as it is.
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DukeLeto
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Refined Chaos
I was saying that flying stealth petards or taloc canoes would be OP, not to make them.
We should test this unit :D It could be annoying and fun :P
Maybe double cost and lower build limit or low/no attack to balance?
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
I can tell you guys one thing: The Fluyt will stealth and it will fly, I won't change that!

I think Duke has got it, there are many other ways to balance it: Increase cost, lower attack, lower HP, lower build limit.

I think the concept of the Flying Dutchman is just absolutely brilliant!

It fits in with laser Abus, bombing balloon and movable shrines.


Quote:
 
Can't send shipments without water spawn point, now can you :P


Actually you can :P

I removed some flags like Tietowatersurface and stuff to make it fly and I guess that's needed to let it arrive at your water spawn point. They arrive now at your TC.


Edited by _Ha_Luke_331, Jan 13 2010, 04:46 AM.
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Mariomasta
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Its not about that damage, its about the transport ability. It can bypass all walls, while being invisible. So you can build and unload units off of the ship. What happens late game and you send an invis flying ship into there base, which they have no clue about. You completely wreck your opponent, thats what. Especially when another person revolts and factories are there ONLY source of income. Thats too OP, just imagine the possibilities. Thats just too much man, I know its cool but thats not going to be balanced no matter the cost. If you can afford it, its OP, thats about it. Like a tuck tuck truck. If you could afford it for 10k of everything, its still OP as the minute you access it you basically win. Ignore the fact thatwould be almost impossible to get outside treaty,its still OP the second you access it.
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Quote:
 
Its not about that damage, its about the transport ability. It can bypass all walls, while being invisible. So you can build and unload units off of the ship. What happens late game and you send an invis flying ship into there base, which they have no clue about. You completely wreck your opponent, thats what


Yeah I know, it will be legen ... wait for it.... dary!

Seriously, that would give some very cool sneak attacks. You better get some towers up or build some spies to spot the stealth :)

You just wrote the perfect sales pitch.

Quote:
 
Thats just too much man, I know its cool but thats not going to be balanced no matter the cost. If you can afford it, its OP, thats about it. Like a tuck tuck truck. If you could afford it for 10k of everything, its still OP as the minute you access it you basically win. Ignore the fact thatwould be almost impossible to get outside treaty,its still OP the second you access it.


Lol, building this ship doesn't mean an auto win, it still can be killed and you can spot stealth you know.

Quote:
 
Especially when another person revolts and factories are there ONLY source of income.


*Mario*

Revolution gives you a pretty good eco actually. And you can train new factories.

Edited by _Ha_Luke_331, Jan 13 2010, 08:15 AM.
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Mariomasta
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just make it flying. Trust me the dutch are already top tier, no need to make them OP. flying ships okay. flying and stealth, not okay. Actually, you can make it stealth in water, and flying on land, that would be fine. But no stealth outside of water, thats too OP with garrison ability. Even if you do see them with a scout unit, they are still bypassing all your walls with grens/petards/whole army.
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
Mariomasta
Jan 13 2010, 04:19 PM
Trust me the dutch are already top tier,
*hmm* *spider*
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ĺ×ļ
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China Lamer
just give dutchman very low hp, then it'll die easily no problem. BTW what happens when you shoot it down? Does it collapse ontop of your units?
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
no the units that look like they are flying are walking on an invisbile platform as such, when they die they collapse onto the invisible platform, it happens with ruyts
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DukeLeto
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Refined Chaos
IMO leave as is, if its uber OP then we can make a fast new patch :P
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Mariomasta
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fair enough, dont heed my warnings. I may be stupid with most my things hence *Mario* but my intuition is good. As of now, they are just plain OP
Edited by Mariomasta, Jan 13 2010, 10:39 PM.
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
Mariomasta
Jan 13 2010, 10:39 PM
I may be stupid with most my things hence *Mario* but my intuition is good.
*lies*
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