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Sioux
Topic Started: Jan 3 2010, 11:18 AM (1,304 Views)
T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
KK this idea was inspired by the mighty _Ha_Nubicus_331

Regarding the idea about animals and what not, it makes sense if they get the ability to train a variety of different animals, with the Nature Friendship card boosting their stats, making them useful in combat.

the problem, is where to train, we thoguht native embassy, but is it posssible to give them the ability to make Cherokee War Huts and make them trainable from their...(u can rename it the Zoo or somin but that aint the point) :P
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Lord_Sami
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Recon King
Do you mean more military units? :D I would find it cool if sioux could train bisons from animal ranches :P
Edited by Lord_Sami, Jan 3 2010, 11:32 AM.
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
lol we mean as in get pet animals that fight, but that gives me and idea, would it b possible for it to spawn bison over time, and add to cards to improve the spawn rate?
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
u could in theory train them from the teepees and hav moving animal training thingsa, and if they spawn animals then that would b OP
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No_nickname
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No_membertitle
Sounds good IMO (all of it).
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
like the idea, but don't know how to mod that so hopefully nickname does :P
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
also an idea, we can just take away sioux infantry and put animals in instead since sioux infantry sux anyway :D
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Mariomasta
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What you should do for sioux is have a bison trained from a teepee every 2 minutes or so. This would remove the need of sioux's UP Farm gathering and continue their OP hunt gathering. Also, they should have a bison spawning from the fire pit ^^.

However they definitely should be hunts still, not pets. That IMO would be awesome
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
the pets boost the mili, i like the idea of no inf but animals instead and as i said, if they replace inf at the WH then they should be able to spawn bison or other huntables from the war hut as well
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Quote:
 
What you should do for sioux is have a bison trained from a teepee every 2 minutes or so. This would remove the need of sioux's UP Farm gathering and continue their OP hunt gathering. Also, they should have a bison spawning from the fire pit ^^.

However they definitely should be hunts still, not pets. That IMO would be awesome


No. I think we can use our time for the trainable pets.

It will be really hard to balance. An automatic spawning point that spawns bisons doesn't know a build limit for example. There will be a very thin line between useless and OP.

The same thing applies for a bison dance. It will probably useless, and the moment people start using it you know it will be OP.

Third option is make them trainable like sheeps. The problem there is that bisons don't fatten, so you are using food to buy more food, which will be OP.

Quote:
 
u could in theory train them from the teepees and hav moving animal training thingsa


Lol, that would be fun! (slightly OP maybe?)

Quote:
 
also an idea, we can just take away sioux infantry and put animals in instead since sioux infantry sux anyway :D


Lol, that would also be fun!

Edited by _Ha_Luke_331, Jan 3 2010, 05:41 PM.
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
hows bout a research tech that allows bison to spawn from your TC every five mins or somin
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
_Ha_Luke_331
Jan 3 2010, 05:39 PM


The same thing applies for a bison dance. It will probably useless, and the moment people start using it you know it will be OP.


what if it gives you bison but decreases your gathering rate from food until the dance is changed or no dancers are dancing on it
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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hows bout a research tech that allows bison to spawn from your TC every five mins or somin


Hmm, it would be different with a tech I guess. If it's in Fortress and the amount bisons you can get is balanced, than it seems ok.

It will probably difficult to mod, so I guess the pets still go first ;)

Quote:
 
what if it gives you bison but decreases your gathering rate from food until the dance is changed or no dancers are dancing on it


This will be even more difficult to mod I guess, considering the problems with Port firepit :)

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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
lool u could give them a faster xp trickle and then give them an infinite bison card or somin
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ĺ×ļ
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China Lamer
lol, imo just replace all sioux inf with bison, and give it a splash melee attack. But instead of the hunt bison you should use the special white vanilla campaign bison, which I know for a fact is controllable (though idk if it's attackalbe of just switches sides like herdables)
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reiska
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Jaegermeister
lol discovery rush with 9 and/or team 6 bisons
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Mariomasta
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21 21 21 21 do it. Along with envoy+disciple rush
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DukeLeto
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Refined Chaos
Team envoys+ Team bison+ disciple rush=OP and in a 4v4 SW too :P
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
that actually sounds OP, we should have bison in general do damage so you can age 1 rush by herding *lulz*
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DukeLeto
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Refined Chaos
Lool and how about trample/area damage because they are big?
Edited by DukeLeto, Jan 3 2010, 11:34 PM.
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
To keep it more simple, here is a suggestion without bisons:

Each animal will only counter one unit-type.

Coyotes: Anti-villager

Wolves: Anti-LI (I mean skirm-types)

Tiger: Anti-HandInfantry

White tiger: Anti-Musktype

Lion: Anti-RangedCav

PolarBear: Anti-HeavyCav

Grizzly: Anti-Artillery

Sharks: Anti-fishing boats

KomodoDragon: Scouting unit

Orangutan: Anti-Spies

Quote:
 
But instead of the hunt bison you should use the special white vanilla campaign bison, which I know for a fact is controllable (though idk if it's attackalbe of just switches sides like herdables)

I don't know if this one works, if so they will get a place too.
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Lord_Sami
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Recon King
I think that's too much. Give them only coyotes, bison and something. And you could just go for it and replace sioux age2 infantry with these superior pets :)

I like the idea of battling bison.. We should make 2 kinds of bisons to be trainable.. the ones for economy and ones for warfare :)
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
it's gonna be hard making sioux train bison because bison are huntables and don't attack.

We could probably give them 3/4 animal units: wolves/coy/black bear/macaque (duber as scouting unit) and maybe a few more or maybe not :D
we could perhaps make teepees kinda like noble huts in the way they can train the stronger animals while the weaker ones are from the war hut :P
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
couldnt you change the cost of the farm and then add in the option to train bison for food without them making too much profit?

OR

could u change some cards to supply bison and some animals with every shipment they make?
Edited by T_Cfc119, Jan 4 2010, 03:43 PM.
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Mariomasta
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Yah actually that will work, have the bison spawn from the farms at a constant rate of like 1 every minute, so you can rotate from farming to hunting. They can act as livestock, however you should reduce the rate of gathering to regular. Since this patch is for ffas, which can go pretty late, I don't think that they should not have the option of no hunts late game. I really dont think they should be units, however, I have no objection to replacing wakina/WC/CB with animals. Replace warclubs with macaques, and increase their speed to insane amounts, and a slight attack boost for the price of 15f/15w (fun, fun spam time :p ). IDK about others tho.
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
i prefer the card idea tbh
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Quote:
 
Yah actually that will work, have the bison spawn from the farms at a constant rate of like 1 every minute, so you can rotate from farming to hunting. They can act as livestock, however you should reduce the rate of gathering to regular. Since this patch is for ffas, which can go pretty late, I don't think that they should not have the option of no hunts late game.


Stuff like that isn't going to happen. Not minding the fact that it will be very hard to balance (again thin line between useless and OP), but it will be impossible to mod.

Modding isn't so easy and cost time, so I think we will first add the animals (I like the idea of SunGirl, where the weak ones are trained in WH and the stronger ones in teepee) before we go adding difficult bison stuff.

Oh, and Sioux already got a good eco boost, they can build 2 banks now!

Quote:
 

could u change some cards to supply bison and some animals with every shipment they make?


That's possible, only they already did it in AS FP :(
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
but they didnt copyright it did they, and they didnt add in animals dfid they :P
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mrckei
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Kansler of the (I.C.A)
idk if this is the rigth thread to post this but I´ll do it anyway. What if you made teepes movable?
like a travois mode in which they can move and then be built up again at another location. Or if u want to go overexaggerate,why not give it to all their buildings?. But imo it would be best for teepes.

Fits their style imo

edit:also I think that Br´s should be like an archer on a horseback,perhaps with less range,but with a better RoF.Those dog soldiers should "fly"(like AK) making them kinda ghostly

sry for hogging *pig*
Edited by mrckei, Jan 5 2010, 03:33 PM.
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Mariomasta
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already done lmao. teepees, along with banks, shrines, manors, and a few others are moveable. And yes, as a nomadic tribe, all of sioux's buildings should be moveable besides farms/plantations (for obvious reasons). Would add a cool touch to the sioux :p.
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
we had moveable TC's for a short time but decided not to keep them :P
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Ok, for the Sioux zoo factory, how about this:

From WH (replacing infantry), all trainable in age 2:

White Tiger: Anti-LI

Tiger: Anti-HI

Wolves: Anti-cav

From teepees, all trainable in age 3:

Bison from campaign (if it works): Anti-Infantry

Polar Bear: Anti-cav

Grizzly: Anti-Artillery


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Mariomasta
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Sioux don' need anti artillery, they have War Chief/tash/RR for that, and the bonepipe armour and the fact their whole army as of now doesn't have inf makes cannons useless on sioux.

Ok, for the Sioux zoo factory, how about this:

From WH (replacing infantry), all trainable in age 2:

White Tiger: Anti-LI lame having 2 tiger types

Macaques (IMO rename): Anti-infantry, weak but massable, with 1.75x against infantry

Tiger: Anti-HI

Wolves: Anti-cav Anti RI, function as LI(coyote-class)

From teepees, all trainable in age 3:

Bison from campaign (if it works): As food spawn from farms/dance, I really dont get whats the problem here, wont be either UP or OP. Just makes sioux have a near constant hunt supply, nothing quite wrong with that and makes up for UP eco food production after hunts are gone. (yes i know the banks, but food production is most key as sioux cuz most units are food heavy)

Grizzly Bear: Anti-cav (new sioux pikemen type, with 2 AoE)

Grizzly: Anti-Artillery


Again, these are my opinions, but they should definitely be put under consideration.
Edited by Mariomasta, Jan 6 2010, 03:56 PM.
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Mariomasta
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Also, I do think that all these units should cost as such

Tiger: 85 food, 35 wood, 1 pop
Wolves: 100 food, 1 pop
Grizzly Bears: 125 food, 70 gold, 2 pop
Macaque: 50 food, 1 pop

Rename the WH to Animal Reserve
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Quote:
 
lame having 2 tiger types


That was the idea, 2 tigers, both for one infantry type. I dont like macaque

Quote:
 
Anti RI, function as LI(coyote-class)


You have 3x anti infantry.

Quote:
 
As food spawn from farms/dance, I really dont get whats the problem here, wont be either UP or OP. Just makes sioux have a near constant hunt supply, nothing quite wrong with that and makes up for UP eco food production after hunts are gone. (yes i know the banks, but food production is most key as sioux cuz most units are food heavy)


No. First thing is impossible to mod.

Second thing is impossible to balance.
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
_Ha_Luke_331
Jan 6 2010, 01:38 PM
Ok, for the Sioux zoo factory, how about this:

From WH (replacing infantry), all trainable in age 2:

White Tiger: Anti-LI

Tiger: Anti-HI

Wolves: Anti-cav

From teepees, all trainable in age 3:

Bison from campaign (if it works): Anti-Infantry

Polar Bear: Anti-cav

Grizzly: Anti-Artillery


sounds good. Want me to start doing that nao then?
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Mariomasta
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add macaques. And whats wrong with my idea, one is for anti HI, other is for anti RI. Actually, change macaques to be the sioux equivalent of disciple/envoy, built from warchief. Keep the qualities of the polar bear but add it for grizzly, dont see why they haveice like unit (more of a russia kinda thing imo
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
we have already modified macques for other uses
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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sounds good. Want me to start doing that nao then?


Yes, if you want to :)

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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
out of interest, instead of trying and decling our ideas about bison, could you change one of the useless BBs to deliver bison?
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Mariomasta
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industrial age BB, 1500 gold Buffalo Bonanza ( in dedication to Smear's strat on AoE 3 H)

A herd of 8 Buffalo spawn at your tc point every 3 minutes, for the rest of the game.

Sound good? cfc this would be pretty adequate to what you want and what i want.
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mrckei
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Kansler of the (I.C.A)
Quote:
 
Bison from campaign (if it works): Anti-Infantry

Is it the white buffalo? If it is,the white buffalo was considered wakan tanka"the great spirit" by the sioux. Maybe give it somekind of an aura?

edit:why do I have a spy under my avatar :O
Edited by mrckei, Jan 7 2010, 04:51 AM.
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Hmm, I got the buffalo trainable, but he can't attack :(

It shares the same tactics file as the other pets, do I need to change the anim file Nick?
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
Mariomasta
Jan 6 2010, 11:21 PM
industrial age BB, 1500 gold Buffalo Bonanza ( in dedication to Smear's strat on AoE 3 H)

A herd of 8 Buffalo spawn at your tc point every 3 minutes, for the rest of the game.

Sound good? cfc this would be pretty adequate to what you want and what i want.
i was thinking more along the lines of bison for every 3 minutes of the game played so far, or somin like that cause then when its gone, its gone, no more will spawn :P
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
Quote:
 

Is it the white buffalo? If it is,the white buffalo was considered wakan tanka"the great spirit" by the sioux. Maybe give it somekind of an aura?


Yes, maybe I'll do just that. Thanks for the suggestion!

@Mario, I don't want a never ending span of bison/buffalo. There is no pop limit, so there is literally no end to it.

@CFC, yes I think that's a good idea.
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Mariomasta
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I meant for food, listen please..... Not as units, going back to what cfc said. LOL if it was units that would be OP
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_Ha_Luke_331
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
What?

You wanted to spawn 8 buffalo every 3 minutes, I assumed (and still do) that you mean the buffalo you can hunt and not the new white buffalo.

The problem with that is, is that there it never stops. For example dojos/factories/Summer palace/Otto villagers etc are limited, because you either need pop room or there's a build limit. Buffalos have neither limitations, so they can be spawned forever. Imagine someone in a FFA or treaty game with 3 TC's who doesn't watch his hunts (or doesn't need them) and then has 3 x 10 x 8 = 240 buffalo in his base after 30 minutes. That would be a bit crowded, wouldn't it?

Edited by _Ha_Luke_331, Jan 7 2010, 04:05 PM.
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SunnyDeeeee
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H34d Nubc4k3
lol that would be ridiculous :P
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T_Cfc119
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nub officer111
i think you can easily replace one with the idea of gettin some for every so much game time, IMO for every 3 mins of game length (30 min limit) you get 3 or 4 buffalo but only from one TC not for every TC as well or anything stupid like dat :L :L
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Mariomasta
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Quote:
 
The problem with that is, is that there it never stops. For example dojos/factories/Summer palace/Otto villagers etc are limited, because you either need pop room or there's a build limit. Buffalos have neither limitations, so they can be spawned forever. Imagine someone in a FFA or treaty game with 3 TC's who doesn't watch his hunts (or doesn't need them) and then has 3 x 10 x 8 = 240 buffalo in his base after 30 minutes. That would be a bit crowded, wouldn't it?


Well it would get crowded if you didn't hunt, but then why should it???

an average sioux player takes 25 mins in normal circumstances, but even assuming you get there in 20 min, you probably would only send it by 25 mins. That means 55 min for those circumstances, by why wouldn't the sioux player not hunt them anyway, considering they collect it much quicker, especially with 20% great hunter.

If not what I said, how bout 8 every 5 minutes, or 5 every 3 minutes, for 850 gold. That wouldn't get too crowded no?
Edited by Mariomasta, Jan 7 2010, 05:00 PM.
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