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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 4 2009, 09:53 PM (4,067 Views) | |
| SunnyDeeeee | Dec 4 2009, 09:53 PM Post #1 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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Post any bugs or problems you notice with the patch and we'll hopefully be able to fix them ![]() Green color= changes that are being tested already Civs Specific Changes: Aztec Brits China Dutch France Germany -Blitzkrieg air ship not trainable India Iroquois Japan Ottoman - Flying galleys need boost - Villagers train too fast with upgrades - Abus need slight nerf - Small spahi nerf Portuguese -Seem a bit weak (???) Russia -Suvorov Reforms is too strong; the idea is fine but it's not too difficult to mass a bunch of Cavalry Archers. Maybe increase the cost? Sioux - Pet attack card has no effect - Sioux battlefield construction card is useless, since you cant get the units it attacks. However should war hut pets build? - War Drums BB in War Hut affects the wrong units (decreases cetan/war club/wakina train time, not war hut pets) - Lions are 0 pop but should be 2 pop - Tapir gives huge build bounty - Worsen teepee pathing/speed, too strong Spain - Spanish seem a bit weak - More diversity needed General Changes -Robber Barons doesnt increase factory gold rate -The flying ship counter circle should be light flying > heavy flying > bomber > light flying, however light flying ships suck vs everything and bombers own all other ships. Heavy flying are ok, but i dont think they counter bombers too well. -Flying purple tapir cant attack all flying units Edited by SunnyDeeeee, Feb 26 2010, 11:09 PM.
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| No_nickname | Feb 22 2010, 02:16 PM Post #2 |
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No_membertitle
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^^ Fixed. Tested the sioux today, and here are some bugs I noticed: - Pet attack card has no effect - Sioux battlefield construction card is useless, since you cant get the units it attacks. However should war hut pets build? ![]() - War Drums BB in War Hut affects the wrong units (decreases cetan/war club/wakina train time, not war hut pets) Also some general bugs: - Robber Barons doesnt increase factory gold rate - The flying ship counter circle should be light flying > heavy flying > bomber > light flying, however light flying ships suck vs everything and bombers own all other ships. Heavy flying are ok, but i dont think they counter bombers too well. - flying purple tapir cant attack all flying units - flying galleys (ottoman) suck I think (didnt see to well lol) And more but I cant remember it now
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| No_nickname | Feb 26 2010, 08:21 AM Post #3 |
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No_membertitle
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China bug:Only applied in VolleyHandAttack and MeleeHandAttack, should also be in StaggerHandAttack and DefendHandAttack. EDIT: Sioux Pet Lion costs no pop although it should cost 2 pop. Also some sioux pets build and kill bounties dont correspond with their costs. Edited by No_nickname, Feb 26 2010, 09:58 AM.
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| duolckrad | Feb 26 2010, 03:33 PM Post #4 |
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duck
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Playtested with Nickname and owns: -Suvorov Reforms is too strong; the idea is fine but it's not too difficult to mass a bunch of Cavalry Archers. Maybe increase the cost? -Spanish and Ports seem a bit weak -Sioux are basically unbeatable. They start by building a teepee and a tapir, which gives them ~10 shipments. They then ship in 700 wood and both teepee cards and make 5 BR for BR that have 100 attack and ridiculous hp. Not a huge problem on its own since it is possible to do something similar on RE, but when your teepees can move you can basically walk into your opponent's base and destroy anything unopposed. Tapirs will only help your opponent if you let them die, but they are hard to kill. |
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| No_nickname | Feb 26 2010, 05:20 PM Post #5 |
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No_membertitle
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Bug: germans cant train their unique jet ship
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| Veliem | Feb 26 2010, 05:27 PM Post #6 |
1x1
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hmmm from the changelog found in language folder. It seems like the blitzkrieg planes aren't implanted yet no? |
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| No_nickname | Feb 26 2010, 05:46 PM Post #7 |
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No_membertitle
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Those are jet planes. |
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Feb 26 2010, 06:17 PM Post #8 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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If you don't look at the tapir bug, how did the Sioux feel? Too good still? I played them against Nick, Owns and some other guy and I loved the Tashunkes. I didn't get a chance to test the animals because owns pwnd them with the ckn --> flame throwers card.
Ports are incredibly strong late game, so I don't know if they should get a boost. Any ideas for Spain?
Good idea. |
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| Mariomasta | Feb 26 2010, 07:00 PM Post #9 |
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Spain: perhaps we can give them +1 villager to start, thatll be nice for their start. And maybe increase their exp rate? Russia: Suvorov reforms perhaps should cost a bit more, maybe we can reduce sending time too to maybe like 1.5 minutes Sioux: Tapirs can be fixed, but i wouldnt mess with anything else. They dont seem OP. Ports: they are fine... Edited by Mariomasta, Feb 26 2010, 07:08 PM.
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| SunnyDeeeee | Feb 26 2010, 10:40 PM Post #10 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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Ok, so I reset list with all new changes for this patch and such ![]() I read all the comments so just asking some clarifying questions here: -Duck, you were saying that ports need boost. Are you sure about that? Were you (or whoever you were playing) utilizing organ guns effectively and using siege dance with them? From my experience on last patch organs+siege dance is way too strong and I don't think we've nerfed that, so IMO ports should still be quite strong? -I expect that suvrov is quite a bit strong, manchu are quite a bit stronger than cav archers ![]() Cost increase sounds like a good boost though IMO -Also regarding sioux being OP. Are they just extremely lame because of the tapir massive XP boost bug? Or do you think teepees need a nerf as well (perhaps speed nerf?) -Also Ha_luke, you mentioned that owns did the CKN->Flamethrower conversion card. How was that? Is it OP, UP(i doubt :P), balanced or somewhere in between? Edited by SunnyDeeeee, Feb 26 2010, 10:41 PM.
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| Mariomasta | Feb 26 2010, 10:43 PM Post #11 |
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I think the teepees are fine, but imo the CkN to FT is a bad idea in general. Dont use it |
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| duolckrad | Feb 26 2010, 10:52 PM Post #12 |
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duck
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Ports seems weak in Colonial but idk, I was Sioux so the game ended just after he aged. Sioux need a nerf in teepees. Even without the tapir they can do well by spamming a bunch of teepees, clustering them all together, and then moving them into an enemy base. I think that increasing their obstruction radius a little would be a good start. Another problem with Sioux is that they are this powerful in Colonial - in Fortress they only get even more OP. The main thing that I don't really like with Spain is that they aren't that interesting. They don't really get new things so much as they get a lot of old things IIRC (mainly with the Consulate). Ports too get a Firepit, which is nice but is just an old thing being placed on a different civilization. |
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| duolckrad | Feb 26 2010, 10:54 PM Post #13 |
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duck
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Ottomans are also OP especially when they get to research BB + all three training upgrades. Villagers come out at a rate of once every few seconds. Besides that, though, they are strong especially in Fortress/Industrial. Abus with 60 attack and x4 vs HI, Janissaries with melee area damage, trainable Spahi, etc. |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Feb 26 2010, 11:10 PM Post #14 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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ok, so regarding sioux do you think teepee build limit should be decreased or should pathing/speed be reduced or both? |
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| duolckrad | Feb 26 2010, 11:18 PM Post #15 |
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duck
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Speed is already pretty low, I think obstruction radius increase and a small cost increase would be good but idk fully yet. |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Feb 26 2010, 11:24 PM Post #16 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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teepee boost or HP can also be reduced i suppose, HP reduction may be nice since then they can be targeted at to be destroyed quickly, without the teepees I don't think sioux army is that strong |
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| Mariomasta | Feb 27 2010, 07:26 AM Post #17 |
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They are terrible without teepees, just read the notes they get almost no boosts in units. Well at least the notes I can read, because there is no ducking full patch notes, just an bs unfinished "updated daily" notes, and what I remember. A full patchnotes is the first step to balancing. We can give it out to agesanc/HG and have them help balance for us, along with the clan whos unaccessible to the FP atm |
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| No_nickname | Feb 27 2010, 08:49 AM Post #18 |
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No_membertitle
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Dont worry, I am working on the patchnotes...but there are A LOT of changes (I've worked several hours every day on it, and I'm still not finished ). |
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Feb 27 2010, 12:27 PM Post #19 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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Every update in the modding section contains a funpatch.txt.... And you can't balance off patch notes, it's just impossible. |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Feb 27 2010, 01:07 PM Post #20 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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you obviously are reading it wrong. The format we usually do is that the couple most recent changes that you do are separate from the rest of the patch notes so that the other modders know what you have/haven't already done. However the majority of the changes are added in together... and mario i don't know how you can say sioux has no boosts in units considering they have 6 new strong animal units to replace their infantry...
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Feb 27 2010, 02:30 PM Post #21 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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Ask Owns or Nick about 18 Stealthed Tashunkes with 3 cards
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| Mariomasta | Feb 27 2010, 04:36 PM Post #22 |
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Yah so they have pets, but not really improved cav. BR just has different function, and from what I see with AR, they are mediocre too. RR lost HC tag, but thats about it for them. Im not saying they will be unplayable, just wont be very good without teepees. If it is a nerf they must have, maybe a light nerf of increased wood cost. Or we can take a whole new turn on it, increase the wood cost to maybe 100-120, but allow it to garrison villagers as well. This way we can reduce its slightly overwhelming military strength, but increase its overall use. And the card reduces cost to maybe 85 or so. Sound good? And thanks for your work in the patchnotes. Very much appreciated Nick
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| SunnyDeeeee | Feb 27 2010, 04:52 PM Post #23 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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mario, FYI sioux cav is pretty strong (as are sioux animals since they do NOT have counters!!! :D) hmm ya teepees may need some sort of change, IMO will have to test a bit more first |
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Feb 27 2010, 06:58 PM Post #24 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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You really should stay off weed until you're about 18 years old.
This means AR > all other cav.
HC tag removed means RC doesn't get a bonus vs them! And they have got more damage and range...
This change is awesome, these things rape *LI.
Awesome raiders. And they got even more cav:
Stop complaining about the Sioux, they are the most changed civ and are very good. |
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| Mariomasta | Feb 27 2010, 10:26 PM Post #25 |
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So are many other civs, being OP. I am content, but Im just saying if you nerf teepees a bit too much, sioux with be under tier. I like how it is now, but if you do something like enable garrison with villagers, but increase cost to limit military use, that should balance out teepees |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Feb 27 2010, 10:41 PM Post #26 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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lol... sioux are definitely not bottom tier by any stretch... Even without teepees their cav/animals rape ![]() with teepees they rock a lot IMO sioux are probably top tier or high middle tier |
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| Mariomasta | Feb 27 2010, 10:43 PM Post #27 |
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Lets keep it that way
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| duolckrad | Feb 27 2010, 10:46 PM Post #28 |
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duck
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With teepees they are the best. Without they are still capable. But it's not like teepees are being removed, just moved down from their current status of unbeatable. |
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| Mariomasta | Feb 27 2010, 11:38 PM Post #29 |
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Then do what I said, increase cost so they arent lamed, and allow them to garrison vils so can be used outside military force as well. That seems fair enough. And i dont think they are the best with current teepees, but certainly top 3. |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Feb 27 2010, 11:53 PM Post #30 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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I don't like the garrison idea teepee cost increase sounds possible, but that won't stop them from dominating later on in the game, IMO teepee bonus or HP or speed needs to be nerfed |
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| owns | Feb 28 2010, 04:09 AM Post #31 |
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the OWNER
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i think that TP must be around 100W and 50C they are quite importand buildings for them, without TP sioux sux and reduce the huge tapir build points, so it will take a bit long to get the TP cards and easier for an civ to ff and counter them CKN > FT card is OP , just spam old han and send the CKN shipments and than change to FT and you also have pikes to defend them lol and yes luke that sioux prowlers are OP since they have the same speed in stealth mode, he raid all of my vills xD |
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| Mariomasta | Feb 28 2010, 08:55 PM Post #32 |
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I don't see how Invisbility speed makes them OP, if they are invisible, why does it matter when raiding , as by the time you get there your opponent will only know when you attack. However, I like it very much, along with the guard/imp upgrades
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| SunnyDeeeee | Feb 28 2010, 09:06 PM Post #33 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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well making them move fast in invisible mode makes them extremely useful for flanking and hit/run tactics (attack then run away and stealth then come back from other side quickly , etc. ) |
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| Mariomasta | Mar 3 2010, 07:30 AM Post #34 |
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But does that help raiding significantly? Just battling |
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Mar 3 2010, 07:50 AM Post #35 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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Just try it out. |
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| DukeLeto | Mar 4 2010, 10:10 PM Post #36 |
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Refined Chaos
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Imagine if you couldn't see the cav coming to kill your villagers and they could maneuver to trap them perfectly before you can even see them so they are all dead regardless of what you do. |
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| Mariomasta | Mar 4 2010, 10:16 PM Post #37 |
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Not really, same speed while non-stealthed right? EDIT: Was that an argument for your statement or a way to try to bash Fuzzy? Stop doing that! Edited by _Ha_Luke_331, Mar 5 2010, 03:33 AM.
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Mar 5 2010, 03:35 AM Post #38 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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Having twice the mobility in stealth mode is huge, you can manoeuvre your units in place twice as fast. Just try it out. |
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| Mariomasta | Mar 5 2010, 07:19 AM Post #39 |
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stop editing all my fuzzy bashes! and it was actually an argument, did you read it? Im saying, if you have no way of predicting when he will hit your villagers, why does it matter what speed they stealth at because they are stealthed. You will only know when they hit you,b ut by then its too late. However, vs a moving army I think one would find this immensely more helpful, especially with guard/imperial stats. Cant imagine what fully carded tash would be like :0. Tash Shank FTW!!! |
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| No_nickname | Mar 5 2010, 11:04 AM Post #40 |
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No_membertitle
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You can't say it is not an improvement to their raiding capabilities lol. Remember that the villagers can still gather while your slooow-moving stealth units move in place ![]() Wtf? Spahi are already nerfed a lot (hp down to 500, attack down to 30...that is worse than a cuirassier already...). Edited by No_nickname, Mar 5 2010, 11:07 AM.
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| SunnyDeeeee | Mar 5 2010, 03:09 PM Post #41 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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well maybe not spahi nerf, but ottos seem pretty strong IMO |
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| Mariomasta | Mar 5 2010, 03:34 PM Post #42 |
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Spahi's are worse than cuirs? That shouldnt be true at all. I mean if you want to nerf, change the age to 3, so hussars are not obsolete imo. And then you can raise spahi a slight bit. I think its just Spahi being overwhelming in colonial iirc, move to fort and they should be fine. |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Mar 5 2010, 04:15 PM Post #43 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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mario we did move spahi back to age 3 like a month ago...
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| Mariomasta | Mar 5 2010, 07:00 PM Post #44 |
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then whats with the nerfing? they should be fine, even with the original minor nerfs. IMO reduce abus RR to 50, up hp by like a wee bit, 10 or so. |
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| ĺ×ļ | Mar 15 2010, 02:40 PM Post #45 |
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China Lamer
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I just played a game with owns, and omg, airships are soo awesome XD only thing is that there is no audio or sound when it is trained or moved... etc flying dutchman can still be seen and attacked even when stealthed Edited by ĺ×ļ, Mar 15 2010, 02:42 PM.
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| ĺ×ļ | Mar 15 2010, 03:11 PM Post #46 |
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China Lamer
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-russia blockhouse can no longer be used as garrisson point |
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| Mariomasta | Mar 15 2010, 03:14 PM Post #47 |
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nubbish! |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Mar 15 2010, 05:40 PM Post #48 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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some things i noticed: General: -Ships too strong (mostly the bomber one that fires rockets) Iro: -Rams seem a bit ghey, maybe reduce speed or siege damage o.O China: -CKN-->flame thrower card way too strong need some sort of nerf or different action of the card |
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| _Ha_Luke_331 | Mar 15 2010, 05:58 PM Post #49 |
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F41l3d t0 j01n 1s my m1ddl3 n4m3
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Their siege isn't changed ![]() I realise their cost is changed, but I also used 6/7 cards to get them to that level.
God, I forgot how much I hate ships ![]() I don't like to fight on water and now I have to fight ships even on land |
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| SunnyDeeeee | Mar 15 2010, 06:17 PM Post #50 |
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H34d Nubc4k3
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ya but even though siege isn't changed, they are quite a bit boosted so are pretty strong lol ![]() like you took down all important buildings in my base in 1 min?
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