|
Repeal Condemn Nazi Europe
|
|
Topic Started: Jan 11 2010, 04:03 AM (1,221 Views)
|
|
[unibot]
|
Jan 12 2010, 11:22 PM
Post #11
|
|
Yellow Matter Custard
- Posts:
- 488
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #1
- Joined:
- Nov 17, 2009
- Region
- The Security Council
|
- Topid
- Jan 12 2010, 11:08 PM
It can be our last attempt together then, I won't be giving up until it's repealed. I think we'll get it. And I have a little plan for Alsted. Alsted is a hard egg to crack, man.
I've played it nice, I've played it cool, I've threatened him, I've been outright angry, I've played it cool,
I've bribed him with a "Commend Europe" , threatened him with a dozen Repeal attempts to flood the floor if he doesn't abstain, and the most interesting of all.. I said I would announce that I would get a commendation up-to-vote for any WA nation in his region that unendorsed him and left his region before the vote.
|
|
|
| |
|
sedge
|
Jan 12 2010, 11:33 PM
Post #12
|
|
Sedgistan
- Posts:
- 545
- Group:
- Μembers
- Member
- #2
- Joined:
- Nov 22, 2009
- Region
- All of them
|
Lol, well waiting until the GA-SC split is still the best way of neutralising him.
I won't 'give up' on this - I want it off the books as much as any other SCer, but we have to be realistic. If we put all of our efforts into repealing it, and we fail, then its quite obvious the WA wants this resolution to stay. If that happens, we have to leave it alone for a very long time.
|
|
|
| |
|
Kalibarr
|
Jan 13 2010, 12:02 AM
Post #13
|
|
- Posts:
- 114
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #5
- Joined:
- Nov 24, 2009
- Region
- Qwendra/Equinox/Paradisia
|
has anyone else noticed how many of these things:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ alsted uses in his TGs?
|
|
|
| |
|
sedge
|
Jan 13 2010, 12:08 AM
Post #14
|
|
Sedgistan
- Posts:
- 545
- Group:
- Μembers
- Member
- #2
- Joined:
- Nov 22, 2009
- Region
- All of them
|
He's never replied to any of mine, so I can't say I have I've only sent him 1 or 2, so its no realy surprise, especially as he doesn't like me.
|
|
|
| |
|
Oh My Days
|
Jan 13 2010, 11:38 AM
Post #15
|
|
- Posts:
- 101
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #12
- Joined:
- Nov 28, 2009
- Region
- Nazi Europe
|
I've got a lot of plans for this, I love Uni's idea to submit 5 repeals at once, though I'm not sure if it is legal or if it would work against us, delegates might approve one but not all of them. This is a TG I sent to Unibot a while ago, it outlines a lot of what I've been planning.
- Quote:
-
Next year definitely, I think that January or February is about time. I desperately want to write it myself but appreciate that people may react more negatively if it comes from me. I think that every time we fail, we damage our chances of ever repealing it so I would accept if someone else has to submit it. Any proposal can make quorum through sheer volume of telegrams to delegates so that bit will be easy, but we'll have to launch a massive campaign to get it passed. I'll send as many telegrams as I can myself but I have a few other ideas as well.
We can make use of the NS forum to reach out to more and more people and refer people to the debate in telegrams.
We can ask delegates not just to vote for the proposal, but to ask their region to do the same.
Ideally we could submit at a time when a couple of SC proposals are in queue as this would give us time to curry favour beforehand. The idea that the early voting patterns have a big influence on the outcome is becoming more and more widespread and I think that it is true to a certain extent. We must make sure that we're competitive at the start or the whole thing could be doomed to fail. Alsted is a big obstacle, I'm not sure why exactly s/he is against the proposal but I can look it up. Ideally s/he would vote for but I think that him/her voting later would be a massive help. The time spent at quorum is important here as it will be needed to persuade Alsted but also we could approach big delegates. Todd, Aegara and NewTexas are all in favour of our repeal, I think that Fastercat is too. I'm not sure about the others but a lot of them are likely to have posted in one of the previous debates. Durkadurkiranistan voted against last time. We could also try the early voting tactics ourselves, if someone like Aegara, Todd, NewTexas or Fastercat could arrange to be online as soon as the proposal comes to vote.
TannerFrankLand could also be useful as an ambassador, people may be impressed if we get the original author on side and I think that s/he would be more than willing.
I'll have to try and get the region to put on a respectable front, it's not always easy. The RMB often contains dubious content and I'll do all I can to keep the morons away from the debate in NS chambers. A clean up of our regional forum would also be a good idea, I'll do that and delete any unsavoury comments. I also think that it would be better if we play down any past invasions that NE has been involved in.
If we want to emphasise positive aspects of the region then we could point out that National Socialism is not necessarily racist and maybe the example of a nation in our region that roleplays a National Socialist state where the common enemy is Zombies.
Finally the proposal itself must be excellent, we don't want anyone to say that they'd support a repeal but not this particular one, I think that the proposal should explain in layman's terms why the original resolution was unjust and an abuse of the SC.
I realise that some of these tactics are a bit under-hand, but this is what I think is necessary. If there is anything there that you don't want to get involved with then that's fine.
I was then thinking when I was away from a computer and came up with a lot more, which I didn't type up but will summarise here:
- Quote:
-
-The GA crowd, like Antarctic Oasis are against it - Kenny has expressed the opinion that we're just attention whores, that must be dealt with -Several large regions vote depending on a vote within their region, we may be allowed to vote there, I've seen non-natives vote on proposals in the past -The RFN may vote for or against, I don't know but Blludevil used to be a member of Nazi Europe so his influence will be key on deciding the vote, I don't know how influential he still is but he's listed on their forum as the Chairman -Anti-WA sentiment is not uncommon, Gatesville obviously don't have the same influence any more but the existence of them and Anti World Assembly indicates that a few people do have genuine animosity towards the organisation, but the idea that the WA are trying to enforce a "One World Order" is not a suitable mainstream argument, quite apart from the fact that it's a load of bull -I thought of you Sedge, I gather from the FRA thread on the NS forum that you're the most senior defender on NationStates, so I would have thought that you can influence a lot of votes -We need multiple campaigners (we seem to have them here) and organisation is important to reach out to every delegate, the telegram should be standardised and mention TannerFrankLand and link the forum debate, a checklist of regions could be used to organise, kept here perhaps -Raider support for a repeal will (I think) be fairly high, I talk to a few different raider regions but I imagine that Todd has much more extensive raiding contacts from his raiding days -Opposition is likely from The Alliance of Dictators and the Axis of Evil, Birminghia and Look At Me are both very against it and I doubt that much can be done to sway them -I'd say that after drafting it here, we should put it on the NS forum to get feedback, that way if we need to change it we can, it can be critiqued by a much wider audience -Individuals can reach out to their regions, a native can have much more sway over undecided nations than outsiders -Likewise, every major region must be won over, either via manipulating their democracies as mentioned above or by securing some supporting natives to lobby their delegate -TITO will be against (I think), I don't know how to win them over but limiting the impact may be possible by persudaing the delegate to wait to vote -Reaching out to small regions may be difficult, they often have younger delegates who don't visit the forums and the situation must be explained fully to them -When the frequency of the proposal is mentioned, we can point out that there haven't actually been very many. Only two were put to vote, the insta-repeal by Glen-Rhodes and then Uni had another go a while later, Nazi Europe haven't brought a single one to vote so the accusations of attention-whoring are completely false -The statistics on the Texas forum are interesting, I believe that a majority of delegates actually voted against the initial resolution but it was passed because of the sheer number of sheep with WA membership. Reaching out to them will be difficult, people who don't read the forums are difficult to contact in large numbers so regions must be encouraged to get their members to vote for it too, not just the delegate -Support from leftists will provide credibility, I have never had any exchange with Communist International Union but I think that they would support a repeal, they might be able to influence other left-wing regions to vote for it EDIT: I've just seen a post in the original debate by Meldaria (current delegate of CIU) suggesting that "we should invade Nazi Europe", which indicates that they wouldn't support us, although his nation was only 3 days old at the time. -It would be possible to organise a significant number of small delegates to be on to vote for straight away if the big delegates can't for whatever reason -Supportive delegates could begin endorsement whoring to boost their voting totals, NSdossier is useful for finding the WA members who haven't endorsed the delegate when regions are not too big -Gameplayers should remember that when they are on operations, they have an extra delegate to approve the proposal and vote it through.
|
|
|
| |
|
sedge
|
Jan 13 2010, 04:18 PM
Post #16
|
|
Sedgistan
- Posts:
- 545
- Group:
- Μembers
- Member
- #2
- Joined:
- Nov 22, 2009
- Region
- All of them
|
To address some of your points:
- Quote:
-
We could also try the early voting tactics ourselves, if someone like Aegara, Todd, NewTexas or Fastercat could arrange to be online as soon as the proposal comes to vote.
Texas always vote late, and according to the wishes of their members. Given the presence of three GA regulars there, the vote will be close.
- Quote:
-
TannerFrankLand could also be useful as an ambassador, people may be impressed if we get the original author on side and I think that s/he would be more than willing.
The less he says the better - he has a habit of annoying people. Just get him to occasionally admit that he wants it repealed, and explain why he originally passed it.
- Quote:
-
-Several large regions vote depending on a vote within their region, we may be allowed to vote there, I've seen non-natives vote on proposals in the past
Unlikely - you might be able to sneak in a vote on some of them if you register an account on the forum and they have a poll, but most of them won't have polls/won't let your account vote unless you're a citizen. I think they'd be very unhappy about trying that.
- Quote:
-
-The RFN may vote for or against, I don't know but Blludevil used to be a member of Nazi Europe so his influence will be key on deciding the vote, I don't know how influential he still is but he's listed on their forum as the Chairman
He's left NS now, unfortunately.
- Quote:
-
-I thought of you Sedge, I gather from the FRA thread on the NS forum that you're the most senior defender on NationStates, so I would have thought that you can influence a lot of votes
I can when lobbying on defender-related proposals, but this would be hard. I guess pointing out that the FRA is about regional sovereignty, and letting natives rule themselves in whatever way they want (which has led to us defending several Nazi regions) means that we should only vote to condemn those who infringe on regional sovereignty. However, FRA regions don't vote as a central block, and other defenders (10000 Islands, Equilism) are anti-Nazi.
- Quote:
-
-TITO will be against (I think), I don't know how to win them over but limiting the impact may be possible by persudaing the delegate to wait to vote
As above, yes they'll probably be against. Their delegate only votes early (at the moment) on liberation resolutions.
- Quote:
-
-Reaching out to small regions may be difficult, they often have younger delegates who don't visit the forums and the situation must be explained fully to them
We can do what me & Trav-Coch have been doing the last few days - telegramming all the delegates who vote against.
|
|
|
| |
|
Oh My Days
|
Jan 13 2010, 08:29 PM
Post #17
|
|
- Posts:
- 101
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #12
- Joined:
- Nov 28, 2009
- Region
- Nazi Europe
|
Texas always vote late, and according to the wishes of their members. Given the presence of three GA regulars there, the vote will be close.[/quote]
Ah, I think that they were supportive of us in the past but I'm not certain, there is so much in the SC forum that we could gain a good idea of who will and won't support it just by reading through them again.
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
TannerFrankLand could also be useful as an ambassador, people may be impressed if we get the original author on side and I think that s/he would be more than willing.
The less he says the better - he has a habit of annoying people. Just get him to occasionally admit that he wants it repealed, and explain why he originally passed it.
Hmm, true, I was looking through his posts and he does seem a bit of an in-your-face kind of guy.
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
-Several large regions vote depending on a vote within their region, we may be allowed to vote there, I've seen non-natives vote on proposals in the past
Unlikely - you might be able to sneak in a vote on some of them if you register an account on the forum and they have a poll, but most of them won't have polls/won't let your account vote unless you're a citizen. I think they'd be very unhappy about trying that.
Right, and creating nations to become citizens would obviously be very sneaky and could be spotted by a savvy administrator anyway.
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
-The RFN may vote for or against, I don't know but Blludevil used to be a member of Nazi Europe so his influence will be key on deciding the vote, I don't know how influential he still is but he's listed on their forum as the Chairman
He's left NS now, unfortunately.
That's a shame, and given the opposition we faced when trying to get an embassy on their forum, I doubt that the RFN would support it without him.
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
-I thought of you Sedge, I gather from the FRA thread on the NS forum that you're the most senior defender on NationStates, so I would have thought that you can influence a lot of votes
I can when lobbying on defender-related proposals, but this would be hard. I guess pointing out that the FRA is about regional sovereignty, and letting natives rule themselves in whatever way they want (which has led to us defending several Nazi regions) means that we should only vote to condemn those who infringe on regional sovereignty. However, FRA regions don't vote as a central block, and other defenders (10000 Islands, Equilism) are anti-Nazi.
That's understandable, is there anyone within the defender community who would be able to lobby across the community? Or even just within individual regions, getting a native onside like with most regions.
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
-TITO will be against (I think), I don't know how to win them over but limiting the impact may be possible by persudaing the delegate to wait to vote
As above, yes they'll probably be against. Their delegate only votes early (at the moment) on liberation resolutions.
That's reassuring at least, which hopefully means that they won't be actively campaigning against, picking up on any campaigners the other way is important (look how Uni blocked Condemn Macedonia, they can work effectively, especially when people have little information available to them because they don't read the forums). For that we'll need reports from delegates who've voted for (I doubt that anyone will telegram me :P), I'll ask some delegates who I'm friendly with.
- Quote:
-
- Quote:
-
-Reaching out to small regions may be difficult, they often have younger delegates who don't visit the forums and the situation must be explained fully to them
We can do what me & Trav-Coch have been doing the last few days - telegramming all the delegates who vote against.
That's a good idea, I had previously believed that lobbying those who'd already voted was ineffective, but as I said above, Uni got Condemn Macedonia out of the queue.
|
|
|
| |
|
sedge
|
Jan 13 2010, 09:07 PM
Post #18
|
|
Sedgistan
- Posts:
- 545
- Group:
- Μembers
- Member
- #2
- Joined:
- Nov 22, 2009
- Region
- All of them
|
- Oh My Days
- Jan 13 2010, 08:29 PM
Texas always vote late, and according to the wishes of their members. Given the presence of three GA regulars there, the vote will be close.
Ah, I think that they were supportive of us in the past but I'm not certain, there is so much in the SC forum that we could gain a good idea of who will and won't support it just by reading through them again.[/quote]Texas was against the original resolution/for both the repeals, but another repeal attempt would probably be close.
- Quote:
-
That's understandable, is there anyone within the defender community who would be able to lobby across the community? Or even just within individual regions, getting a native onside like with most regions.
Well I can lobby people, but given that its not related to defending, I wouldn't have too much influence.
|
|
|
| |
|
[unibot]
|
Jan 14 2010, 03:21 AM
Post #19
|
|
Yellow Matter Custard
- Posts:
- 488
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #1
- Joined:
- Nov 17, 2009
- Region
- The Security Council
|
Oh My Days, if this is going to be won. Its going to involve a lot of vote swaying, and a lot of pressure on the Big Delegates. I'll bribe my ass off to get support -- if they want a commendation up-to-vote with their name on it, so be it. Alsted however needs to be taken care of (does anyone know if EuroFounder is Alsted?), I've already mentioned my two big plans to apply pressure on him.
The other battlefront you have to fight on is Public Relations.
1) While voting is going on, change your forums up ... or atleast remove the goddamn background of Hitler. 2) Put up a friendly WFE. 3) Restrict the usage of "Heil!" or German for that matter in telegrams or RMBs. 4) Do not send out telegrams with "Heil!" in it, for god's sake man. 5) Do not mention in your fucking RMB that the repeal attempt is giving your region attention. Again. *shakes his fist*
|
|
|
| |
|
[unibot]
|
Jan 14 2010, 03:29 AM
Post #20
|
|
Yellow Matter Custard
- Posts:
- 488
- Group:
- Admins
- Member
- #1
- Joined:
- Nov 17, 2009
- Region
- The Security Council
|
- Quote:
-
Opposition is likely from The Alliance of Dictators and the Axis of Evil, Birminghia and Look At Me are both very against it and I doubt that much can be done to sway them
I hope that the Alliance of Dictators does campaign against. They're the best campaigners I've ever seen, I didn't even have to break a sweat with "Liberate Utopia". 
Oh and I lobbied Birminghia into voting for it twice. I don't remember how. But I remember I did.
Edited by unibot, Jan 14 2010, 03:30 AM.
|
|
|
| |
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
|