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Brainstorming; We should propose some Resolutions!
Topic Started: Nov 23 2009, 01:45 AM (5,550 Views)
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Kalibarr
Jun 15 2010, 02:28 AM
Funny your flag sure as hell looked like it had a sumerian lion thing on it
His flag has a horse on it and always has. And what do Sumerians have to do with...well anything?
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Urgench
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Khasmathupourgos, Invectivologist, Pikriast
A mean old man
Jun 14 2010, 11:46 PM
Why exactly are you here, Urgench?
I'm here because I was invited, but also because you chaps have had plenty of right to reply and plenty of opportunities to question my motives for supporting the 4th rule, including but not limited to suggesting that I am somehow involved in some bizarre (non-existent) plot to deprive GPers of access to the WA or worse.


I'm here because I'm a WA player, and because I warned over and over during the creation of the SC that this kind of outcome was highly likely. I asked the major GP proponents of the SC in no uncertain terms if they could assure us that GP voting blocs (like 3WB) would not be used to circumvent the normal processes of the game and that such blocs would not be used to give GPers undue influence and the ability to exert an unfair pressure over the development of rules and modus operandi in the SC which other player groups would not have. I was told that I was being paranoid and absurd, that the organisation of such a bloc was beyond practicality and that no group of GPers large enough for this purpose could be convinced to agree with one another to make such pressure possible. It seems that all it took was a little demagogueary and some rabble rousing and misinformation and hey presto!


I'm here because 3WB represents a totally unfair and unethical attempt by GPers to use numerical pressures within the WA to allow them to have a power over the normal Mod guided system which all other players have to submit to in order to use Nation States. If 3WB were successful it would mean that the entire system of moderation had been compromised and that the basic fairness inherent in the system that ultimately all executive power within the game lies with the Mods to whom all players regardless of how they use NS must defer and submit no longer applied.

Where would it end if the Mods caved in to 3WB's demands? We could all effectively presume that the Mods were no longer supreme and that all decision making would need to be cleared with GPers, or it would run the risk of bringing the WA to a standstill again or worse.

I'm here because you guys failed to realise that using the WA would mean a greater amount of adaptation to the conventions of an online nation simulation game which is moderated and not run by democracy.

I'm here because the SC is and should be as coherent a part of the game as the GA is and in order to prevent that being the case 3WB wants to bully the Mods, and any other players who dare to disagree in to allowing them to use the SC for whatever the hell they want.


I'm here because obnoxious Nazi trolls and assorted other maladjusted types have been monopolising this debate and leading this attempt to undermine all confidence and fairness in the system which applies to every other player group in NS and because I felt someone should be pointing out the bankruptcy of morals, guiding intellectual principles and ethics inherent in this situation.

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Urgench
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Khasmathupourgos, Invectivologist, Pikriast
Kalibarr
Jun 15 2010, 02:28 AM
Funny your flag sure as hell looked like it had a sumerian lion thing on it
It's always been the Golden Horse symbolic of Urgench's founder's revered mount and the horses which are so vital a part of Mongolian culture.


But even if it were a Lion of Sumer, how would that relate to the persecution of the Kurds? During the period in which Sumerian civilisation flourished in southern Iraq no group which could even be considered distantly related to the modern Kurds lived in northern Iraq. That the term "Kurd" may be related to the purely geographical Sumerian term "Qardu", which referred to an area then inhabited by Urartians (who are not thought to have been ancestors of modern Kurds) is an accident of history. That the Sumerians never exerted enough power in northern Iraq to be able to persecute anyone living in that region (Kurdish ancestor or not) is also somewhat to the point, as is the fact that no nation or group I'm aware of which has been involved in the relatively modern marginalisation of the Kurdish people has ever used the symbol of a Sumerian Lion. In fact the only modern people thought to be in anyway related to the Sumerians, the Marsh Arabs, had acts of ethnic violence perpetrated on them by Saddam Hussein.


Besides I'm not sure that anyone as yet defines what has happened to the Kurds in the modern era as a formal Genocide, though crimes against humanity have been committed on them as a result of ethnic policies in some states. Kurds did participate in the Ottoman Turkish genocide of the Armenians during the first world war though, is this what you're half remembering?

In all and any cases none of these situations has anything to do with the symbols and images I have employed in the creation of Urgench which is an imagined refoundation of the Mongol empire and has little or nothing to do with the situations you may be misinformed about.


So how am I using the symbols of genocidaires?
Edited by Urgench, Jun 15 2010, 11:42 AM.
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[unibot]
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Krioval
Jun 15 2010, 01:47 AM
unibot
Jun 15 2010, 12:12 AM
Agreed, completely. With one exception, "National Socialism", and not that facist bullshit that Hitler spun, doesn't need to be fundamentally based on hatred or racism, it's just an socioeconomic philosophy .. people like Hitler have turned it into what it is known as today .. and I think that's what Oh My Days has been advocating .. such as some other policies of Hitler's like the 9-5 workday (which is typically overlooked when one focuses on eugenics, bookburning and public stonings). On a completely different note, in my Canadian high school we use to label our classrooms with 'pink triangles' to symbolize that our classrooms would not tolerate any sort of discriminative language... thanks to you I was the only one who knew the real history behind the symbol, Urg, so I got to teach the class and the teacher for a lesson. ;)

Oh My Days, Kali... cool it. Take a breather. Nazism is a tough subject for a lot of people, and has affected a lot of lives, I think you could show Urgench here some respect by acknowledging that, and giving him some breathing room.

I just looked at the 8 hour working day entry on Wikipedia. No mention of Nazi Germany. And in any case, Nazism and this mythical "national socialism" really can't be separated for the simple reason that the only attempts at "national socialism" led to a world war and genocide. OMD has every right to advocate hideous ideologies in his spare time, but that doesn't mean that critical thinking gets suspended because somebody wants to reimagine history. And honestly, Unibot, I'm a little surprised that any "positive" development in Nazi Germany should somehow be used in any way to deflect criticism of its devastation. I mean, they were against smoking too, but pretty much for the wrong reasons. Then again, most of their anti-tobacco campaign focused on restricting people's freedom to do as they please, so scratch that one too.
[...]

And I'm here because I want to see the Security Council succeed as an arm of the WA, not as some "elite" players' personal sandbox. Thank you and good night.
My bad about the 8 hour work day, in retrospect, that tidbit came from a very unreliable 8th grade history teacher. :D

And funny enough, I always said the same thing about the GA.

You're personal opinion of me is surely needed, thanks for being honest. I suppose my attitude towards people stems from the fact that I don't trust anyone anymore on NS, I've been backstabbed too much. But I still want to give people the betterment of the doubt and generally be a pleasant person. If you want me to be more of a direct asshole, I don't know, I don't want to be.
Edited by unibot, Jun 15 2010, 10:44 PM.
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Kalibarr
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oh what ever... Mongols have killed plenty of people too, and didn't the turks migrate from somewhere over there too... Never mind.





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Urgench
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Khasmathupourgos, Invectivologist, Pikriast
Kalibarr
Jun 15 2010, 11:02 PM
oh what ever... Mongols have killed plenty of people too, and didn't the turks migrate from somewhere over there too... Never mind.





Yeah a lot of people have killed a lot of people, accusing me of having used the symbols of a state or a people who might be guilty of Genocide might be something you were capable of backing up with some actual knowledge of what you were talking about. But again, what am I thinking? Knowing little or nothing about what you were talking about never stopped you from expressing lots and lots of opinions, or wildly insulting people for no reason, before, did it?
Edited by Urgench, Jun 16 2010, 09:15 AM.
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Kalibarr
Jun 15 2010, 11:02 PM
oh what ever... Mongols have killed plenty of people too, and didn't the turks migrate from somewhere over there too... Never mind.





Silly Kalibar, the Turks came from the Turks and Caicos Islands. Everybody knows that. Of course their first genocide occurred when they killed off all of the Caicos. They've been on a rampage ever since.
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A mean old man
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Crazed Curmudgeon
I may very well tell you what my problem is with your region (regionmates might be a better way to put it - I've got a few specifics in mind), Krioval. Hope you don't want a deadline; I'm pulling together a bit of a wordy post to tell you just what I've observed and just how I feel about it.

Hope you don't mind seeing some criticism. Yelda probably will. After all, I can't even question the intent of members of his grand old community like he does with mine without him storming into the thread and berating me with his chest puffed out, all his little trumpets playing in the background, and a parade marching behind him with hundreds of big old AO banners flapping about. Too bad, though; I'll speak my mind, no matter how many mocking puppet shows are put on or insults are thrown at me.

I'll also honor Urgench with a reply to a few parts of his post; what a nice guy I am!

Toodles.
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A mean old man
Jun 18 2010, 04:08 AM
with his chest puffed out, all his little trumpets playing in the background, and a parade marching behind him with hundreds of big old AO banners flapping about.
Bagpipes. It's usually bagpipes.
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Krioval

A mean old man
Jun 18 2010, 04:08 AM
...a parade marching behind him with hundreds of big old AO banners flapping about...
That was a magnificent post, I must admit, but Yelda is actually in The Pleiades, not AO. Of course, they do claim to be "the most belligerent and unfriendly region in NS", so that may pose a problem for us AO NS hegemonists.
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