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Brainstorming; We should propose some Resolutions!
Topic Started: Nov 23 2009, 01:45 AM (5,552 Views)
[unibot]
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Yellow Matter Custard
By the way, my grandfather was a Canadian bombardier in WWII, he helped to liberate Belgium in real-life, he died when I was quite young but he use to preach to me two things that I'll always remember,

One, war is just a bunch of strangers shooting at each other. (I later found out in life that this was a paraphrased line he borrowed from his favorite novel, Catch-22).

Two, my grandfather was always ashamed that he had to murder human lives to liberate Belgium, it didn't matter to him if they were German or Nazi, it matter to him that he had to murder someone to stop them from doing what he knew was wrong all because of the righteous ignorance of his country and its allies had morally isolated them from their opponents.
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unibot
Jun 12 2010, 05:36 PM
it matter to him that he had to murder someone to stop them from doing what he knew was wrong
Well yes, what the Nazis were doing was "wrong" to say the least. I wouldn't consider what your grandfather did "murder".

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all because of the righteous ignorance of his country and its allies had morally isolated them from their opponents.


Well good lord, I would hope that we were morally isolated from Nazis!
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Yellow Matter Custard
"Morally isolated" meaning we turned ourselves into such an unapproachable force of animosity towards the Germans, that we warranted the Nazi Government's propagandist spin on our principles.. and in turn we're partially the reason why we were unable to convince German citizens what they were doing was wrong.

My grandfather always said something along the lines of "the first time I dropped a bomb, I had no justification to other than my superiors told me to. That's murder, and responsibility is split between the solider, and the authority. The one who listened to the madmen, and the madmen themselves."

His war stories were always... interesting... to say the least.

Edited by unibot, Jun 12 2010, 05:58 PM.
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unibot
Jun 12 2010, 05:57 PM
"Morally isolated" meaning we turned ourselves into such an unapproachable force of animosity towards the Germans, that we warranted the Nazi Government's propagandist spin on our principles.. and in turn we're partially the reason why we were unable to convince German citizens what they were doing was wrong.



Oh well of course, I see your point. The bad guys won WWII. Whatever was I thinking?
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Krioval

Just...wow. Not too much more to say, is there?
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Yelda
Jun 12 2010, 07:09 PM
unibot
Jun 12 2010, 05:57 PM
"Morally isolated" meaning we turned ourselves into such an unapproachable force of animosity towards the Germans, that we warranted the Nazi Government's propagandist spin on our principles.. and in turn we're partially the reason why we were unable to convince German citizens what they were doing was wrong.



Oh well of course, I see your point. The bad guys won WWII. Whatever was I thinking?
No, what I was saying that their 'badness' wasn't anything inherent, and they're reasons for it which includes our own dealings with them.

There are no good or bad forces, everyone says they're the good guys, it is the universal running joke of human morality.

Ultimately, by stopping the Nazi Empire, it saved a lot more lives and prevented a lot of humanity misery across the world -- that's a good thing, so clearly, the 'good' guys won.
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unibot
Jun 12 2010, 10:06 PM
No, what I was saying that their 'badness' wasn't anything inherent, and they're reasons for it which includes our own dealings with them.


The badness of Nazism wasn't inherent? So if we had done things differently in our dealings with them they might not have cooked up that Final solution business?
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Urgench
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Khasmathupourgos, Invectivologist, Pikriast
Of course there was nothing inherently "bad" about the German people as a whole, but you can bet your arse there was something inherently evil about Nazism. Nazism was evil from its inception. It was an ideology of racial hate and violent ethnic Imperialism. Before the war most governments attempted appeasement, this failed because the Nazi party was not interested in peace it was interested in murdering as many people as it could to achieve a Nazi Reich in which untermensch were eliminated.


Now anyone who associates themselves with Nazism even as some kind of ironic joke, which no one could be expected to know they were making btw, in the context of a game like NS is at the very least grossly irresponsible and at worst sick and revolting.


That OMD has been known to try to rehabilitate Nazism as though any part of that grotesque ideology could be salvaged and made in to a reasonable basis for viewing the world makes him all the more dubious in my eyes.

I wear a pink triangle pin on remembrance day to commemorate the gay people who were hideously tortured to death in the most unimaginably horrifying ways by the perverted so called scientists of the Third Reich. Anyone who thinks that those responsible for these crimes are worth emulating in any way is utterly beyond the pale in my opinion.


If OMD thinks its funny to use Nazi symbols for his nation, or if he thinks anyone should treat Nazism with anything other than total contempt then he is not someone who can expect to elicit respect or consideration for his opinions from me. And frankly I am proud of the fact.


You 3WB chaps need to seriously look at your front line here (to use a sporting metaphor) OMD is contemptible, Kalibar does nothing but drive-by flame and seems incapable of rational thought, Whamabama is obnoxious beyond belief and has the debating skills of an angry drunken Yak, Darkesia is seething with so much hostility towards anyone from AO or the GA she might as well be organising anti-AO/GA tea parties, and Naivetry is so conniving and self serving an egomaniac that she comes of as sociopathic sometimes, though I understand she's not a true 3WBer (more evidence of her connivance).

All that leaves is you Uni, granted I don't always get along with you, but I accept that you're pissed off by this rule. My problem is that 3WB makes it impossible for anyone to engage with your concerns because if they do it is tantamount to caving in to special interest bullying. I warned you that if you guys backed the mods in to a corner you'd end up with nothing, and it looks like all the hysteria and attempts to create "fear" ,as OMD would have it, has just made your position less and less tenable.

You guys need to be at the negotiating table and not be hanging threats of imminent WA apocalypse over everyone's heads if you want to get anything out of this situation.
Edited by Urgench, Jun 13 2010, 05:58 PM.
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Oh My Days
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Urgench, you put me on ignore onsite, because you couldn't handle me intellectually and didn't want to face my arguments. You think that this will help you save face and conjured up an excuse, that I am a "troll". So, I find it amusing that you have chosen to come to an offsite forum that I regularly frequent and do respond to what I said, before you even got here. Along with the barrage of abuse for me and several other gameplayers, you have decided to systematically troll gameplayers, but especially me. Presumably, you are hoping to post things that you couldn't get away with onsite, so I will get in trouble for posting things onsite, in reaction to what you're doing. Well done, moron, it took me about 2 seconds to see through your "plan".

Seeing as this is a Security Council board (hint: the url says The Security Council, that's because we want to discuss Security Council issues), and you completely fail to understand the SC, have shown support for the rule that is destroying it and therefore either welcome its demise or are just an utter n00b, I don't see the point of you being here. Do us all a favour, go jump off a cliff.

I love how proud Yelda is of his war criminal uncles, you're so much better than the Nazis, isn't it fun to kill innocent people, especially children? Rot in hell, scumbag.
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Urgench
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Oh My Days
Jun 14 2010, 07:33 PM
Urgench, you put me on ignore onsite, because you couldn't handle me intellectually and didn't want to face my arguments. You think that this will help you save face and conjured up an excuse, that I am a "troll". So, I find it amusing that you have chosen to come to an offsite forum that I regularly frequent and do respond to what I said, before you even got here. Along with the barrage of abuse for me and several other gameplayers, you have decided to systematically troll gameplayers, but especially me. Presumably, you are hoping to post things that you couldn't get away with onsite, so I will get in trouble for posting things onsite, in reaction to what you're doing. Well done, moron, it took me about 2 seconds to see through your "plan".

Seeing as this is a Security Council board (hint: the url says The Security Council, that's because we want to discuss Security Council issues), and you completely fail to understand the SC, have shown support for the rule that is destroying it and therefore either welcome its demise or are just an utter n00b, I don't see the point of you being here. Do us all a favour, go jump off a cliff.

I love how proud Yelda is of his war criminal uncles, you're so much better than the Nazis, isn't it fun to kill innocent people, especially children? Rot in hell, scumbag.
Oh you're just priceless! :P I put you on ignore onsite because you're a troll and there's no point in wasting time onsite responding to your obvious lack of debating ability, especially if it risks dragging otherwise intelligent discussion in to the mire.

You don't have arguments, you have insults, you don't have an intellect you have base cunning combined with a malign nature which make you deeply unpleasant to have any kind of contact with.

If you want to think that I share your cunning and malign nature because your world is so narrow and bleak that you can't imagine that anyone else could be, unlike you, a decent human being that's fine. I pity you that bleakness.


Malign and self aggrandizing people like you are "destroying the SC" as you so histrionically put it. The 3WB is exactly what many of us knew would happen, GP elites would decide that they were totally unwilling to negotiate on their responsibilities towards the game once their play style was more formally incorporated in to it via the WA and instead of discussion these elites would use organised voting blocs to abuse the WA and the game for their own selfish purposes.


You continue to sink ever lower in my estimation, your general attitude is hostile and ignorant, your manner is combative and reminiscent of a disturbed 18 year old. That you fail to understand that your involvement in the current rules debate is unwelcome and deeply unhelpful to anyone concerned is no surprise since I have come to believe that your only motive for doing so is a love of conflict and discord. You thrive on being an obnoxious and unpleasant influence.


Your Nazi themed nation is revolting and combined with the fact that you are a known apologist for Nazism it is quite clear that you are a seriously behaviorally disordered person whose broken ego and personal issues make you a disruptive, aggressive, and utterly negative antagonist in this controversy.

Edited by Urgench, Jun 14 2010, 10:11 PM.
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