Sick and tired of joining Sonic forums filled with annoying kids, or then having to join a forum so small barely anyone posts there. Well we here at ML are different. We intend to be a huge a forum, without attracting the usual so called "newbs" We don't mind swearing, since you probaly swear in real life anyway, and you'll just write it like this f*ck instead if there is censorship. So enough ranting, join and decide for youself already. |
| It Doesn't Have To Be This Way! | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 24 2008, 06:56 PM (120 Views) | |
| BlizShadow | Jun 24 2008, 06:56 PM Post #1 |
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I think I've said this possibly sacrilegious statement enough times to get the point across: I dislike the Sonic fandom as a whole. We're a grumpy bunch of unsatisfied and whiny bastards who are more content in forcing the past down others' throats instead of looking at the possibilities of the future. We'll immediately shoot down new ideas, we'll disown anything not perfectly classic, we're elitist, we're bitchy, we're babyish (Here's to you, Simon Jeffrey), yada yada yada, I think you get the highly stereotypical picture right now. But while I hate this attitude, I admit there's some justification in it with Sonic Team's track record since 2003. Gameplay and universe problems abound, Sega's unintentionally divided the fanbase because they've proven that Sonic is ridiculously capable of succeeding at anything, and it pains us when he doesn't reach that mark. It's made a lot of us unable to step outside of our comfort zone when the hedgehog treads new water, leading to shaky impressions of new material. I think you can partially see where I'm going with this. New ideas come about, and they're shot down, but I'm not going to focus on the wild gunfire in general so much as a painfully annoying justification for it: "It isn't like that for something else, so why is it like that for this?" You've seen this reason in many forms before: "Mario doesn't have voice acting, so why does Sonic have to have voice acting?" "The classic games had colorful backgrounds, so why doesn't this new game have colorful backgrounds?" "Sonic never needed vehicular assistance before, so why does he ride a board?" It's basically a spin-off of the age-old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." But the horrible problem with this saying is that it assumes that the "it" was already perfect in the realm of the six-plus billion minds living today and automatically will be for future minds, which is obviously impossible. Nothing is without the possibility of genuine improvement or out of the realm of being able to be interpreted differently. It's this type of counter-productive thinking makes me wonder why must Sonic games always be compared to other things and subsequently looked down upon? It seems we're totally unable to judge things on intention; what something is trying to be versus what it was never meant to be. It's very easy to shoot Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow, or Sonic '06 down just on the basis for not incorporating fantastical settings, but ignoring the fact that even the classics weren't all Carnival Nights and Emerald Hills and that there's other factors to these thematic compositions than "realism" or "fantasy", did one ever wonder if that's what the artists were intentionally trying to do in the first place? Of course, the easiest dismissal of my aggravation is that all of this really just boils down to the mere opinion of some people. But I think we've taken this concept into the realm of straight bashing and an overwhelming amount of conservatism that doesn't allow for the enjoyment or even trial of new ideas and themes in the Sonic universe. |
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Yes, I carry my sig everywhere. XD ~*~ Cheap Entertainment: March of the Penguins; in 5 seconds: Don't want to watch the entire documentary to see what the fuss is about? Here's a pretty accurate summary.... ~*Quote Of The Moment*~ "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present." -- Master Oogway | |
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| Cap | Jun 24 2008, 08:26 PM Post #2 |
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Bingo. Thus the idea behind the mobius loop. The general bunch of Sonic fans we get today are a bunch of moans, who wouldn't know imagination if it slapped them with a trout. I'm guessing though, the main push behind this argument comes from the constant dismissal, that a were Sonic form could in fact turn out to be great. To be honest, at times it feels like some fans are just begging for something to moan about, and drown with their pessimistic views. I agree that Sonic has had more than its fair share of downs, but when a company re-organises their priorities, and knuckles down, to put their franchise back on the map, how can you not have high hopes. |
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| BlizShadow | Jun 24 2008, 09:06 PM Post #3 |
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Well, we're not sure of the extent that Sonic Team have reworked themselves. It was only last year that we finally figured out that SoJ has control over the voice acting. I doubt we're ever going to truly get the scoop on how they really work. Because of that, and past fuck-ups, the pessimism is understood. I think the big question is "can this work?" We all seem sold on the regular Sonic gameplay for Unleashed, give or take a few people who still believe that the entire thing is on-rails (me until recently), but it's the introduction of a new feature-- the werewolf aspect-- that has us shaking our heads in dismay and shaking in our boots. But in regards to the overall idea, why exactly is it so weird? What's not "Sonicy" about it? Are people serious that we can have genies, pirates, interdimensional demons, an alien species, water gods, and Death Star rip-offs, but a beast form is treading too far? What in the world is the criteria for these types of things? What makes certain outlandish ideas anymore acceptable than other outlandish ideas? Because it's new? Had Sonic Team tried this before and it worked to the degree that it provided fun gameplay, would its occurrence be so dismissed? I have no qualms with anyone disliking the idea or being cautious about it as I am, but when people make claims that "it's not Sonic enough" or it doesn't "fit" somehow, I have to take valuable time out of my day to wonder just how anyone can infer that. [It also annoys me when people seriously say that it's a rip-off of Link's wolf form, because if I recall, Sega beat Nintendo to the punch with Altered Beast. XP] |
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Yes, I carry my sig everywhere. XD ~*~ Cheap Entertainment: March of the Penguins; in 5 seconds: Don't want to watch the entire documentary to see what the fuss is about? Here's a pretty accurate summary.... ~*Quote Of The Moment*~ "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present." -- Master Oogway | |
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| DragonFlame | Jun 25 2008, 06:17 PM Post #4 |
Destruction is tempting
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It would leave me to say. Mario have gained the upperhand and all focus relies on the plumber. While Sonic in his own shadow, finding him self thrown into the garbage can by the fandom. I have disliked the fact, they always prefer Mario above the blue blur. What makes Mario so much better. It's just so annoying finding people with countless with flaws and issues turning one after another title into it's downfall.
Meh! They only make up an escuse. It's horrid, but they always sidekicks Sonic in the wastehole and almost everything Sega and Sonic Team have done into a mere rip-off. I would just say. Those who review games and favor each Mario game. They have been playing Mario for their whole life and can't possible make a positive review of Sonic. No, Mario is the cool plumber, he should get all number 6 on the dice. While we dislike Sonic without that cool speed. Let's slack it down to 3. Only because they have sacrificed some of the speed since the old times. But please they should have thought in another matter. Old times would involve 2d. Speed would be the kicking boost. And it wouldn't be as hard controlling the caracter when moving only sideways. Since the 3d change and after Sonic Adventure 1 & 2. They compleatly changed each and one of the changes they made into a compleat failur. This aint Sonic, were is the speed. That leaves me to say, if they havent taken away some of the speed. I dont see how to controle him, but their working on it. Atleast what i have seen in the latest games, the speed is improved. While i couldn't see Sonic in Riders, but the game was okay, but it showed only a rip-off the Mario Kart through the fandom. Meh! I am just adding something that have been as my own fiddle. Edited by DragonFlame, Jun 25 2008, 06:17 PM.
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 Credit to sMy Pancakes | |
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| Master of Darkness | Jun 27 2008, 12:51 PM Post #5 |
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I personally don't have any issues with the newest Sonic games - I quite enjoyed Shadow, even if it was a tad on the easy side... it's just a shame that so many people are quite stuck in the past. I'm guilty of this, I'm a walking time warp xD but generally, I've now gotten to a point where each Sonic game is now a stand-alone experience, not relating to any previous game at all. This opinion of mine sucks, if I'm honest. I'd like a bit of continuity, at least plot-wise. The DS games have no relevance to the main consoles, the old-school games are related in a sense but then that got thrown out the window when 3D games became more popular. Sonic is a 2-dimensional cool dude that runs fast and saves the day yet his sidekicks have more depth to their character, and Robotnik's been reinvented more times than McDonald's do new burgers. I shouldn't have to be in the frame of mind where each game is a stand-alone experience, and I believe that this is the main bone of contention with fans - the lack of decent connecting plot. '06 is a brilliant example of this, because you complete it and what? OMG it never really happened! |
 A shiny Bleach site for all Bleach needs. Asshats need not apply. | |
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| BlizShadow | Jun 27 2008, 08:29 PM Post #6 |
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@ DF: I think it's obvious to everyone that Mario can get off a helluva lot more easier than not only Sonic, but every other gaming franchise in existence. Seriously, I played and beat the main story mode to Galaxy, and while I admittedly had a crap-load of fun, I never saw what the fuss was about. The graphics are mediocre, the general platforming is old ground, and the "innovation" extends only so far is instead of pressing a button to spin, you waggle the remote instead. Honestly, even CoD4 was given more Game of the Year awards than Galaxy, but the latter still managed to be about as the most overhyped thing since sliced bread. It pains me to say that this is more than likely why Sonic gets a hard time; not only because of the two mediocre console games, but because people seem to conveniently forget that his whole point is to be the sole antithesis of Mario and to do things his own fucking way. And it makes me want to throw a baby in traffic when people say that he should take more of Mario's lead. Frankly, I think Mario needs to find his own way himself-- what with all of the millions of spin-offs-- before we start trying to make everything out to be like him. Let's have some variety every once in awhile, eh? @ MoD: I'm not so sensitive about continuity. So long as each plot doesn't undo the other obviously, I'm terribly fine with each game feeling so standalone. It's one of the things that makes the series partly appealing to me. There's always an overwhelming sense of something new to be had with all of the installments; they're hardly comparable, and can easily be appreciated in their own ways. I also appreciate Sonic Team's efforts for branching out Sonic into all of these different themes. Really, it's quite commendable. However, I do think that some plots could be written better, if not in dialogue, then at least in execution. Also, your point on Sonic, I think he's fine the way he is now. Granted, he can show a little more emotion once in awhile (SA2 was his high point <3), but the way Sega has him set-up is that he is the center of the characters' universe. Every character has grown or evolved from some way from an interaction with Sonic, either directly or indirectly, and as a result, he remains that much more lovable; someone you'd truly want to be with. Even better yet, he is quite the flawed hero unlike the one I ranted about a few moments earlier. XP |
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Yes, I carry my sig everywhere. XD ~*~ Cheap Entertainment: March of the Penguins; in 5 seconds: Don't want to watch the entire documentary to see what the fuss is about? Here's a pretty accurate summary.... ~*Quote Of The Moment*~ "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present." -- Master Oogway | |
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| Cap | Jun 27 2008, 10:39 PM Post #7 |
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I don't mind the fact that Sonic has a lack of continuity. But certainly, I would love to see Sonic start to develop a proper story, and create a sort of, uber universe, but I don't mind, as long as the story isn't a disaster. I think the latest sonic games have been all over the place in terms of a straight forward story. But certainly with Unleashed coming up, its really a clean slate for Sonic. So really, it'll be interesting to see how they follow up unleashed. |
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11:22 PM Nov 26
