|We hope you enjoy your visit.|
You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
Join our community!
If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:
|Little Cup Ubers Guide; Critique/Suggestions Welcome!|
|Topic Started: Nov 10 2008, 01:25 AM (7,161 Views)|
|Vader||Nov 10 2008, 01:25 AM Post #1|
GoldenKnight says hi
LC Ubers Guide
Little Cup, a Metagame with a reputation for OHKO’s and low defensive ability, as well as a fast pace and extremely offensive play. Imagine, then, that this Metagame was allowed to compete with even faster Pokemon, stronger Pokemon. This is the environment of Little Cup Ubers, where everything is even faster than Little Cup OU. Many of the Ubers were banned without testing, though for a fairly good reason. Lets get to know them, shall we?
Scyther: Scyther, the Mewtwo of Little Cup. With defenses rivaling Bronzor, high HP, and the second-highest Speed and Attack in the game, Scyther can do almost anything it wants. Being bulky enough to survive a hit with the right investment, it can then use either Swords Dance or Agility to make itself stronger or faster. Technician Quick Attack and AA combined with BB make for unresisted coverage, as well as one fearsome Pokemon. Roost can also be used to mitigate LO damage if necessary. His one weakness? He’s outdone by Sneasel and Yanma in terms of speed and priority. He can be compared to Mewtwo in this fashion, an overall excellent Pokemon that is outclassed in single areas by others, but has the most functions overall.
Sneasel: The only Pokemon that outdoes Scyther in Base Speed in all of Little Cup. With Base 95 Attack and a STAB Priority Move that has nothing immune to it is nothing to scoff at. With access to Swords Dance and Agility, it can also assert itself as a dominant force on the field of battle. After a single Swords Dance, its Ice Shard will OHKO Scyther and Yanma, while its other attacks inflict massive amounts of damage on anything that resists Ice Shard.
Yanma: The single most terrifying Pokemon in LC Ubers, Yanma makes Scyther and Sneasel wet themselves. With Speed Boost, Yanma’s speed can reach 30 in one turn, and 40 the next. With LO backing it, as well as access to Hypnosis, Yanma reaches the point of undefeatability. If it decides to pack HP Fighting over Protect, it can kill almost any Pokemon in one or two hits. Because of Hypnosis, there is no such thing as a "Yanma Counter," since everything and anything that can survive its attacks can be put to sleep. Because Sleep Talking is so difficult to pull off in Little Cup, this makes Yanma a threat to be reckoned with.
Meditite: This guy’s sheer offensive power is what got him banned, and likely will make him STAY banned. Hitting attack levels only seen on CB Pokemon, a Scarf set lets Meditite tear through unprepared teams in moments. A CB set lets it unbelievable levels, a Bullet Punch 2KOing everything that doesn’t resist it. The right move coming from the CB set will OHKO any Pokemon in the game.
Tangela: This guy under the Sun is unstoppable. Or, rather, he is in OU. Unfortunately, even with his good defensive stats and great offensive potential, Tangela can’t perform as effectively in Ubers, where 3/5 of the Pokemon’s STABs are SE and likely OHKO’s. However, if Tangela can get Sun up, then Ancientpower/Solarbeam combo can plow through the other Ubers.
Clamperl: Is only banned with Deepseatooth, but can be fairly effective with it. Under TR or with an Agility-pass from Venonat or Scyther, it can run rampant with a massive Special Attack. Under the Rain, it becomes even more fearsome with double-STAB Surf. However, it is largely inferior to the other Ubers and even most OU Pokemon in this environment. On the other hand, it is the only Uber that can perform under Trick Room.
Murkrow: Murkrow was banned for its iconic uncounterable SubKrow set. The strongest Priority move in the game combined with its 19 speed, reliable STAB and ability to go mixed. Once Murkrow got a Substitute up it became almost impossible to stop and, after much debate, was banned from Little Cup.
Using the Ubers:
Step one to learning to play the LC Uber Metagame is learning how to use each Uber, and what each one does best, as well as which Pokemon give it trouble.
Scyther: Scyther does its best with an Agility set. With the ability to double its speed to 34 after one Agility with an Adamant nature, Scyther can easily sweep through opposing teams. Even Yanma cannot outspeed Agility Scyther with a Speed Boost. Sneasel faces trouble after an X-Scissor/Quick Attack combo kills it. Swords Dance is also usable, but not advised since Sneasel will outspeed it.
Sneasel: Sneasel is a Swords Dancer through and through. With Ice Shard being so obscenely powerful, Sneasel’s ability to tear through teams is unprecedented. It hits 23 Speed with a boosting nature, allowing it to outspeed everything else that doesn’t pack a Scarf or Speed Boost.
Yanma: Yanma is simply tops. With its already massive speed, it hits 24 speed after a Speed Boost and no Speed EVs. At best, it hits 30 after the boost. With access to any kind of Hidden Power, a luxury Scyther, Meditite, and Sneasel lack, it can get excellent coverage in addition to its STAB. With HP Fighting, it has unresisted coverage and rules the field. Hypnosis also lets him shut down any supposed "counters" with relative ease, a frightening prospect indeed.
Meditite: This guy is all about power. Unfortunately, the Scarfed variant is too easily stopped, since Sneasel is immune to Psycho Cut. On the other hand, the Banded variant can use Bullet Punch for a 2KO on the other Ubers, save for Sneasel who is OHKO’d. The Banded variant is only for those excellent at prediction and very familiar with the Metagame, however, as a mispredict will end in disaster. With a weakness to Yanma and Scyther’s Flying STAB, Meditite has it rough, but can OHKO both with Psycho Cut.
Tangela: The Sunny Day Uber is, as its title implies, best under the sun. Hitting a massive 30 Speed combined with 20 Special Attack, one-turn Solarbeams and Ancientpower, you have a brutally effective anti-Uber. Its flaw? It’s weak to Ice, Bug and Flying.
Clamperl: Speed pass to this or use it on a Trick Room team. If you can’t, this guy is ass. He really can’t do much with its shitty speed and miniscule movepool. If you can get a speed pass in rain, great! If not, good luck.
Murkrow: With Murkrow, you'll either want to go CB or the classic Sub Krow. If Murkrow can get a Substitute up, then it can use HP Fighting to deal with opposing Sneasel, Drill Peck for Meditite, Scyther and Yanma, and Sucker Punch for everything else.
Playing Against the Ubers:
Scyther: Scyther has difficulty against Nosepass, who resists Aerial Ace and can OHKO back with Power Gem. Use Brick Break to stop any arrogant Steels or Rocks that think they can switch in with impunity.
Sneasel: Sneasel’s best counter is Bronzor. Able to survive anything Sneasel can dish out and OHKO back with Gyro Ball, there is little Sneasel can do but switch out. Scarfed Sneasel is also a very effective counter. With a Scarf, it will outspeed and OHKO with Break Break, while Ice Shard fails to KO. Squirtle can switch in on Ice Shard and OHKO with BB. Chinchou can switch in and cripple him with TWave.
Yanma: Yanma is stopped dead by RestalkLax. Other than that, nothing can really come in straight off and stop it. Scyther can get it if it can pull of an Agility on the first turn and KO with AA the next. Sneasel can revenge it if it packs Sash with SD+Shard combo.
Meditite: Meditite has no counters. At all. Ever. Period. The Banded version can OHKO anything in the game with the proper move selected. However, if it uses something you’re packing an immunity to, switch in and force it out. Yanma and Scyther 4x resist Hi-Jump Kick, Sneasel is immune to Psycho Cut, and Chinchou 4x resists Bullet Punch.
Tangela: Tangela sucks outside of sun. Once it’s in Sun, however, it can be nearly unbeatable. Max Speed Yanma will only tie it after the first boost, but can try for a Hypnosis to stop it. Sneasel has Ice Shard, for all the good it’ll do against Tangela’s massive defense. Tangela also hates Bronzor unless it packs HP Fire, which it probably will.
Clamperl: Tangela beats this if it gets Sun up. Under Trick Room, however, only Munchlax can claim to even come close to beating Clamperl.
Murkrow: Murkrow is stopped by Scyther or Sneasel, take your pick. Sneasel is more effective, as its Ice Shard is super effective against it and can score an easy OHKO.
Non-Ubers in Ubers:
These Pokemon, even if not excellent in OU, can perform in Uber due to unique traits that they have.
Squirtle: This may be a surprise, but this little guy tops the list as best OU LC Pokemon Ubers. With Fake Out+Aqua Jet to screw Yanma over, Brick Break for Sneasel, and Rapid Spin to clear the field for team-mates, it is any wonder this guy is so good in Ubers? Even better, he’s bulky enough to take SD Ice Shard and KO back.
Bronzor: This guy is frankly the best Sneasel-stop you can get. Gyro Ball also deals with all the Ubers, who are ludicrously fast. This give Bronzor a massively powerful attack to play with, so use it wisely! Setting up Stealth Rock and Screens is also very appealing, allowing Bronzor to support its team. It can also set up Sun or Rain for Tangela or Clamperl. It can also Trick Room for Perl.
Cranidos: A great anti-lead. Maxing HP and Attack while minimizing speed lets him OHKO Bronzor with EQ and Sneasel, Yanma, and Scyther with Stone Edge. He can also set up SR if you want. Give him Lum to deal with Yanma’s Hypnosis.
Munchlax: 100% Yanma stop. Restalk Munchlax is monstrous and frankly an excellent choice for an LC Uber Team.
Steels and Rocks: Rock-types are great, as are Steels. These guys have nice sets of resistances for LC Ubers, and can often hit hard with SE STAB attacks from high offensive levels.
Although in normal LC Stealth Rock sees minimal use, in Ubers it is vital that you pack Rocks. With 3/5 Ubers being weak to it, it is imperative-IMPERATIVE-that you have at least one Stealth Rock-user.
Additionlly, you pack a Rapid-Spinner. A good spinner would be Squirtle, who shares no weaknesses with the true Ubers. Spiner Blockers and Ghosts in general don’t work so well here, with Sneasel’s Bite KO’ing them easily, and SR removing any Sash.
Pokemon STAB is less important than the core types on non-Uber Pokemon. These types hit Ubers SE and are vital to succeeding. Each team needs:
Rock Attack/Fire Attack
Flying Attack/Ghost Attack
Rock/Fire both hit Sneasel, Scyther, and Yanma SE. Flying and Ghost hit Meditite. Other types worth using include Fighting for a sure KO on Sneasel. Uber Pokemon should take advantage of STAB and priority, however, as they are either strong enough to hit others significantly or have STAB that corresponded to the core types.
When building a team, it is important to remember that Fighting, being 4x effective against Sneasel, is a very common type just from this. Steels, Rocks, and Munchlax ought to look out for this, since Sneasel is so common and powerful.
In Little Cup, there are certain items such as Oran Berry that see more use than in OU or other Metagames due to inherent differences. In this same vein, there are many items in normal LC that are usable in LC Ubers, and others that are not so usable.
Seeing how the Ubers are monstrously fast, this item lets slower Pokemon catch up and fight on almost equal terms. A Rock- or Flying-type move is almost required for this work, however, because otherwise the Pokemon is too easily forced out or KO'd by its opponent. Mankey is an example of a good user of this item, with high attack and access to Rock Slide. Anti-Uber sets can also benefit from this.
This one's for powerful priority users, mainly. The main user of CB in LC Ubers is Meditite, whose Bullet Punch is an incredible force that can put quite the hurting on an opponent. Additionally, CBTite can OHKO anything in the game provided it is using the right move. Scyther and Sneasel can also use this to some degree of success.
50% of your HP back? Why would you ever say no?
Because Yanma's Hypnosis runs so rampant, if you don't have a Sleep-Absorber it's usually good to pack a Revenge-Killer with Lum. TWave is also extremely popular to cripple opposing sweepers, which Lum happily negates.
One of the most common items there are. The 1.3x bonus and the ability to switch between moves is quite an attractive option for Sneasel, Scyther and Yanma.
Less Usable Items:
Nothing is going to be fast and strong enough to effectively use Specs.
Stealth Rock is on any good team due to the amount of damage it can inflict on Scyther, Sneasel, and Yanma. This also has the handy effect of stopping your Sashes. Even with Spin support, Oran is definitely advised over this. It's usable on Leads, but that's about it.
Uber Team Construction:
For every Uber team, one needs to ensure that the weaknesses of the included Ubers are resisted by at least one other Pokemon on the team. Additionally, certain roles are necessary on each team. These roles are:
Rocker: This Pokemon’s primary function is setting up Stealth Rock to fuck up opposing Ubers who could otherwise easily tear through your team.
Spinner: This Pokemon spins away Rocks, allowing you to get Yanma, Scyther, and Sneasel in at much less of a risk.
Weakness-Coverer: A Pokemon whose job is taking attacks that would ruin your other Pokemon. Having two is optional, but recommended. This function is interchangeable with the next.
Anti-Uber: A Pokemon whose job is to specifically deal with an opposing Uber that would cause your team a good deal of trouble. These Pokemon frequently carry Flying, Fighting, and Rock attacks to deal with Sneasel, Scyther, Yanma, and Meditite.
So, my team can be taken as an example of this:
In normal Little Cup, themed teams such as Sun, Rain, Hail, Sand and Trick Room can do quite well. Well, in Little Cup Ubers, it is considerably harder to do so. Barring Sun, nothing in the Uber Tier is really suited to using Rain, Hail, or Sand. Auto-Weather users are too fragile for the environment, easily being killed and their companions killed one by one. Trick Room is usable due to Bronzor’s durability and Clamperl’s power, as well as LC Ubers being even more Speed-oriented than normal LC. Beware, however, of opposing Priority, since Sneasel and Scyther love to kill with Priority.
The main thing that likes Sun in Ubers is, as previously stated, Tangela. However, Tangela is not a team on its own, and therefore needs more Sun-abusers. Another reliable Pokemon to set up sun is Bronzor, who can use the associated item to allow Tangela a full sweep of the opposing team. However, in many instances, Tangela will not get a full sweep on its own, 8 turns of Sun or not. A fire Pokemon is suggested, since Fire-types resist Bug and Ice, two of the main types that give Tangela and other Grass-types problems. A flying resist is also suggested due to Scyther and Yanma packing those as well. Scarfed Cyndaquil is an example of a good Fire-type Sun-abuser. See the Sun Team Guide for more Sunny Day abusers in general.
The best Trick Room starter is undoubtedly Bronzor in Ubers, and one of the only ones. Sashed Shuppet lead remains fairly viable. Clamperl is a superb choice for a Trick Room sweeper when equipped with the Deepseatooth. Muchlax is also great, packing Fire Punch and Return to hit hard. For the most part, Trick Room in ubers is unchanged aside from Stealth Rock running rampant and a much higher risk of being killed by the Pokemon they attack.
Rain, while now the superior choice in OU LC, is inferior in Ubers, for several reasons. The first is that most Swift Swimmers, the primary reason Rain is used, are easily outsped by Yanma in only a few turns, and Scyther after a single Agility. Few pack the necessary defenses to deal with the massive attack values being thrown around in the Uber environment to deal with the Ubers. The best Rain set-up Pokemon is definitely Bronzor, once again. With Damp Rock is can get eight turns of rain, enough to let SS'ers wreak havoc with an opposing team. Chinchou is another good rain-user, as well as getting a boost on Hydro Pump and a 100% Accurate STAB Thunder under it.
Buizel gets SS, Aqua Jet, BB, Quick Attack, Ice Punch and many other excellent options. He can cause significant trouble to an opposing team if played well. Kabuto and Omanyte both get STAB-boosts from the rain, Swift Swim, and STAB on Rock-type moves, making them excellent choices.
Edited by Vader, Mar 7 2009, 06:55 PM.
owner of #lc, #osm, #lcwifi, #lcwarstories, #lcmafia, #lcubers, #lcwc, #vader, #VARK, #kfc and best of all #fap
|eric the espeon||Nov 13 2008, 10:35 PM Post #2|
vader was here
I think its a very solid guide as far as I can see, but will probably need changes when more people start to play the metagame and new strategies are found.
The one think would be maybe emphasize Yanma's Hypnosis a little more? Its one of the main reasons we banned it in the first place.
If some people who have actually played LC Ubers could comment it would be useful...
|TPM||Nov 29 2008, 03:43 AM Post #3|
||Ooh! Ooh! I've played Lc Ubers! One thing to mention is that Fighting is quite common (or atleast it feals like it whenever I play) so maybe say that Munchlax and Rock/Steels be careful. Also, aren't most people SRing at the start of the game? I remember this big idea about Scarf-Fires to smack Bronzor leads, or am I too far in the past?|
credits to plus for this amazing banner
|1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)|
|« Previous Topic · Guides · Next Topic »|