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EV training for Little Cup; WIP
Topic Started: Oct 10 2008, 04:55 PM (4,645 Views)
eric the espeon
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vader was here

Post 1 is a mess, try post 2 for a much more useful guide.

As you are probably aware EV training is considerably harder in Little Cup than most metagames due to the fact that you must keep your Pokemon at or below level 5.


Lets start with a near worst case example, a Shuppet that wants max SpA and SpD (it is part of the "Fast" growing group, and both its Special Attack and Special Defence require 252 Evs to max out.) that has been Pal Parked from the ADV generation so it is already at Lv. 5.

The formula for the level up rate of the "Fast" group is:
Experience needed for level N is 0.8(N^3)

So the experience at Lv 6 will be 0.8(5^3) = 100 EXP
The experience at Lv. 6 will be 0.8(6^3) = 172.8 EXP round that down and you get 172 EXP

So we have to fully EV train our Shuppet without it gaining 72 EXP points.

We want to max out Special Attack and Special defence, they both require 252 Evs to do this. First we can use Vitamins to get 100 in each, so it now needs 152 SpA and 152 SpD Evs, this does not give it any EVs.

With a Power Item attached and PokeRus our Shuppet will gain 8 useful EVs per battle plus two useless speed EVs from the Magikarp.
We need 304 (152 SpA+152SpD) useful EXP points to fully train Shuppet, so we need to beat 38 (304/8) Pokemon while holding the correct Power Items (Power Lens for SpA in 19 battles, Power Band for SpD in 19 battles) and being infected with PokeRus.

Lets find out what gives the least EXP, Magikarp gives the lowest base EXP of any Pokemon and you can find them at level 3 with the old rod, so we will chose it.

The formula for calculating EXP gain is as follows (I removed the parts that were not needed in this case):

EXP Given = ((Base EXP * Level) / 7) * Trade Boost

The trade boots is 1 if your Pokemon has your trainer ID, 1.7 if it has a different ID and 1.5 if it has been Pal Parked

After each step, the result is rounded down.

So we input our values and get
EXP = ((20 * 3) / 7) * 1.5
EXP = ((60) / 7) * 1.5
EXP = 8 * 1.5
EXP = 12

So the total EXP from beating each Magikarp will be 12, however 12 * 38 = 456 which is far more than our 73 EXP limit.
So we must split this EXP between as many Pokemon as possible, lets try just switching between all 6:
12/6 = 2 and 2 * 38 = 76, still more than our 73 EXP limit

We need to employ some EXP shares
Smogon
 
If more than one Pokémon is holding an Exp. Share, 50% of the experience points will be distributed equally amongst all Pokémon holding Exp. Shares.


So if we give every Pokemon on our team other than Shuppet an EXP share AND switch each of them in then out against only Lv. 3 Magikarps our Shuppet will only gain 1 EXP per battle [(12/6)/2)].

1 * 38 fits nice and safely within our 73 EXP limit.

So by using 10 Calciums and 10 Zincs, then beating 19 Lv. 3 Magikarp holding the Power Lens and 19 Lv. 3 Magikarp holding the Power Band (running for every Pokemon that is not a Lv. 3 Magikarp, all while infected with PokeRus, all other members of your team holding EXP Shares and all participating in each battle.) you can fully EV train your Lv. 5 Shuppet in Special Attack and Special Defence without it levelling up. To get the EVs to apply simply deposit the Pokemon in a box, the "box trick" does work for Pokemon that are below level 5.

-----------------------------------------------------

I will clean it up and make it look nice as well as adding more examples (with more simple Pokemon to train.... Not many are anywhere near as hard as Shuppet due to the fact it has 2 stats that need 252 to max out and has a "fast" growth, not that anyone would ever want to max SpA/SpD..) and work on the Pokemon with "Erratic" growth.
The formula for them is crazy...

The cumulative experience needed to reach level n is given by the piecewise function:

n3((100 - n)/50) if 0 < n < 50
n3((150 - n)/50) if 51 < n < 68
n3(1.274 - (n/150) - p(n mod 3)) if 69 < n < 98
n3((160 - n)/100) if 99 < n < 100

"mod" is a mathematical operation that expresses the remainder of "n/3". p(n mod 3) can be expressed with another function:

p(n mod 3) = 0 if n mod 3 = 0
p(n mod 3) = 0.008 if n mod 3 = 1
p(n mod 3) = 0.014 if n mod 3 = 2
Edited by eric the espeon, Dec 5 2008, 11:54 AM.
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eric the espeon
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vader was here

Ok post one is a bit of a mess, too much math that's not needed.


Minimising EXP Gain
How to get only one EXP point per battle.

Wild Magikarp's which give lowest EXP of any Pokemon can be found by fishing anywhere with the Old Rod. They range in level from 3 to 10, but depending on how you got your Pokemon (Trade, Pal Park or Home Grown) you will have to run from then above a certain level.

You can divert half the EXP away from your LC Pokemon simply by having one of its team mates hold an EXP Share.
In the next stage of minimising EXP gain for the baby you need to switch in multiple Pokemon to split away some of the points, the total number of Pokemon needed in the battle to hit the magic 1 EXP gain for your baby depends on how you obtained the Pokemon:

For Home Grown:
Lv. 3 Magikarp need 3 in total
Lv. 4 Magikarp need 3 in total
Lv. 5 Magikarp need 4 in total
Lv. 6 Magikarp need 5 in total
Lv. 7 Magikarp need 6 in total
You must run from Lv. 8, 9 and 10 Magikarp

For Pal Parked or Traded:
Lv. 3 Magikarp need 4 in total
Lv. 4 Magikarp need 5 in total
Lv. 5 Magikarp need 6 in total
You must run from Lv. 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 Magikarp.

"Spare" EXP before you hit Lv. 6:

Depending on what your Pokemon's Base EXP rate is and what level you start training it you will have a different amount of spare EVs.
Here is a table for all 6 base EXP groups from Lv. 1 (DPPt hatching) and Lv. 5 (ADV hatching) with all Pokemon eligible for Little Cup:

Fluctuating
From Lv. 1: 111
From Lv. 5: 46

Corphish
Drifloon
Gulpin
Makuhita
Shroomish
Wailmer

Fast
From Lv. 1: 171
From Lv. 5: 71

Aipom
Azurill
Chingling
Cleffa
Duskull
Glameow
Happiny
Igglybuff
Ledyba
Misdreavus
Purugly
Shuppet
Skitty
Snubbull
Spinarak
Spoink
Togepi

Medium Fast
From Lv. 1: 215
From Lv. 5: 90

Caterpie
Diglett
Doduo
Ekans
Grimer
Magnemite
Mankey
Meowth
Onix
Paras
Ponyta
Psyduck
Rattata
Sandshrew
Scyther
Seel
Slowpoke
Spearow
Venonat
Vulpix
Weedle
Zubat

Slow
From Lv. 1: 269
From Lv. 5: 113

Chinchou
Dratini
Exeggcute
Houndour
Larvitar
Magikarp
Ralts
Rhyhorn
Shellder
Staryu
Swinub
Tentacool

Medium Slow
From Lv. 1: 178
From Lv. 5: 43

Abra
Bellsprout
Bulbasaur
Charmander
Chikorita
Cyndaquil
Gastly
Geodude
Machop
Nidoran♀
Nidoran♂
Oddish
Pidgey
Poliwag
Squirtle

Eratic
From Lv. 1: 405
From Lv. 5: 168

Anorith
Clamperl
Feebas
Lileep
Nincada
Swablu

Evs needed

First make your EV spread, then take 100 away from each stat (or as many as are need to make it zero) as you can use Vitamins for those. The remainder is the Ev that you will have to earn in battle.
If you are holding the correct Power Item (list below) each battle you need to get 4 useful EVs from the Power Item and one Speed EV from the Magikarp.
If you do not intend to train in Speed use Tamato Berrys every 10 battles (less when nearing the EV limit) to reduce your Speed EVs back to zero and make room for more useful EVs.

Power Weight = HP
Power Bracer = Attack
Power Belt = Defence
Power Lens = Special Attack
Power Band = Special Defence
Power Anklet = Speed

If your total needed EVs divided by 4 (divide needed Speed EVs by 5 instead and round down) is now more than your spare EXP, your Pokemon will have to catch PokeRus in order to fully EV train it. However this is only in a very few cases (Mostly involving the "Fluctuating" or "Fast" groups with large investments in just two stats) so you will not normally need PokeRus.
For those of you who do not know: if your Pokemon has PokeRus then it will gain double EVs, this means that any spread for any LC Pokemon can be achieved by Lv. 5.


How to apply this
by dr00

In this demonstration of how to use the information above there will be an example of all the steps involved in EV-training a pokémon. It will show you how to calculate EV spreads, what you will need, where to train, and give you the knowledge and tools so that you can EV train your own pokémon.


Little Cup EV-Training, An Example:

Posted Image


First, you will need to download this tool. (Credit: Evil Bob)
Mirror

It will be an invaluable help to you along your way during this process.

Once it is downloaded, go ahead and open it up. It should now look like this:

Posted Image

And for this example, you're going to scroll down to Totodile:

Posted Image
Posted Image


At first it will just seem like a bunch of numbers with Totodile nonchalantly being cute at the top. You're just going to focus on the bottom for now.

Posted Image

The highlighted numbers in Red show the amount of EVs needed to gain your FIRST stat point.
Green for SECOND
Yellow for THIRD
Blue for FOURTH

Posted Image

Pay particular attention to the column in Red. This is the only the dynamic value of the equation. Once you have added enough EVs to achieve your first stat point, only 80 EVs are needed for each additional stat point.

Also pay close attention to the xx's in some of the stats in the fourth line. This means that this pokémon cannot gain a 4th extra point in this stat.
The good news however is that you maximize its stat when you reach the number in the third column.

The Desired Set:

Posted Image

TOTODILE - Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Jolly
     - Waterfall
     - Ice punch
     - Return
     - Dragon Dance

Aww, isn't he cute?
This little Dragon Dancing, Ice Punching crocodile of destructive cuteness is just ready to be trained, but there are a few things you need to do before you start.

Before You Begin:

There is little room for error in Little Cup. You cannot train past lv. 5 and retraining a pokémon at lv. 5 can be very time consuming and difficult.
For this reason, it is imperative that you clone extra copies of the pokémon you are training before you begin.
Once this is done, you will have a nice safety net of security in the event that something is done incorrectly during the training process.

Deciding on the Best Spread for You:

Refer to the EV table again. It shows that Totodile's Atk maxes out at 236, and Spe maxes at 252.
That's 488 EVs and 22 leftover. Since he can gain an extra stat point in Def with only 4 EVs, some of the leftovers will be used and the final spread is going to be:

236 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

That is now 492 EVs, with 18 wasted. This may seem disappointing at first, but it can be helpful to have a pokémon that doesn't need all of its EVs.

Here is an example of realistic IVs of my Totodile being trained:

24/31/30/20/29/31 (HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe)

He may not seem perfect at first, but due to the wonders of IV correction and those spare EVs that were just mentioned, with the right EV spread it can be as good as any Totodile with straight 31's.

Now, notice that he only has a 30 in Def. The stat calculator assumes 31 in all stats, so you will need to add some more to cover that deficiency.
Remember the extra 18 EVs you had? Well here is where you will put them to good use.

4 EVs covers the loss of each IV point below 31.

4 * (31 - A) + E = Y

A is the actual IV
E is previous EV spread
Y is the new total

Plugging the Def IVs we have into our equation gives us this:

4 * (31 - 30) + 4 =
4 * (1) + 4 =
4 + 4 = 8

Therefore, since Totodile has 30 Def, the new spread will be:

236 Atk / 8 Def / 252 Spe

And now that you have your spread, you're one steap closer to trekking off into the wilderness for some training. But you're not quite ready yet; you need to make sure you have all of your materials.

What You Will Need:

Quote:
 

     Posted Image Power Bracer
Quote:
 
This item gives a pokémon 4 Atk EVs at the end of each battle.
With Posted Image, it gives 8 Atk EVs at the end of each battle.

     Posted Image Power Anklet
Quote:
 
This item gives a pokémon 4 Spe EVs at the end of each battle.
With Posted Image, it gives 8 Spe EVs at the end of each battle.


     Posted Image Protein x10
Quote:
 
Each Protein gives 10 Atk EVs.
To help minimize Exp. gain and to save time, we're going to give our pokémon vitamins first.

     Posted Image Iron (Optional)
Quote:
 
Each Iron gives 10 Def EVs.

     Posted Image Carbos x10
Quote:
 
Each Carbos gives 10 Spe EVs.


     Posted Image Pokérus (Optional)
Quote:
 
This will double to EVs gained and cut our time in half.
That means that each Power item will instead give 8 EVs instead of 4.
Pokérus is not required, but it helps save a bit of time.


     Posted Image Exp. Share
Quote:
 
This item will minimize the Exp. gain for our pokémon to help ensure he stays at Lv. 5 or below.


     Posted Image Old Rod
Quote:
 
We're training on low-level Magikarp and this is the rod we'll need for that.


     Posted Image Rare Candy (Optional)
Quote:
 
This will help finish a pokémon's training if it's below Lv. 5 when it's finished training.


     Posted Image Tamato Berry (Optional/Not required for this spread)
Quote:
 
This item removes 10 Spe EVs and is required for spreads that don't use Spe EVs



The Start of Your Training:

After you have your items, find an additional pokémon to fill your party and attach the Exp. Share to it to help minimize the Exp. gain for Totodile.
Note that Lv. 100 Pokémon will still minimize Exp. gain but won't give you a message during each battle. It is not required, but not having the message will speed up your training.

Next, you will support our Totodile's drug habit by giving him 10 Proteins, 1 Iron, and 10 Carbos.

After that, we'll infect him with      Posted Image.
This is not required, but it saves time.

So now we have reduced the EVs by 100 from Atk and Spe and taken care of Def altogether. Our remaining EVs are:

136 Atk / 152 Spe

Doesn't look too bad, does it? Now you just need to do a little more math to figure out how many battles you need.
A Power Item gives 4 EVs in a desired stat and PKRS doubles that to 8. So divide the remaining Atk EVs by 8:

136 / 8 = 17

You can use this equation for any stat from HP to SpD.

Training Speed is a bit different, however:

Since you are training on Magikarp, we will also receive 2 Spe EVs after every battle. Those 2 along with the 8 from Power Anklet, means Totodile is getting 10 EVs each time.
Also, since Atk is being trained first, that will leave you with 17 (battles) * 2 = 34 Spe EVs already trained.
Here is your new equation:

152 EVs - 34 Already trained = 118
118 / 10 EVs per Magikarp = 11.8

And round up to 12.

So that's your battle plan. Battle 17 Magikarp with Power Bracer and then switch to the Power Anklet for 12 more for a total of 29.

Pokérus note: if you don't infect your Totodile with PKRS, that's fine. Simply double the amount of battles / EVs for the equations above. Atk becomes 34, etc.

Ready to Battle:

And now Totodile finally ready to go. Put him at the beginning of your party, grab your Old Rod, and let's head to the beach.
I like Sandgem town, but any place with low-level Magikarp is fine.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT
:
The Old Rod will attract Magikarp and only Magikarp, ranging from lv. 3 to lv. 10.
If you bred your own pokémon, always run from Magikarp lv. 8 - lv. 10.
If you traded or pal parked this pokémon, always run from Magikarp lv. 6 - lv. 10.

I use this method that works well for me, but you can try whatever works best for you.

     Fish until a Magikarp pops up:
          If the level is too high, run and start over.
          Otherwise, switch to another pokémon.
     Kill magikarp.
     Repeat.

It's fairly simple, but it works. Do this a total of 17 times and switch to Power Anklet and then another 12 more times.

The Little Room for Error and Little Cup:

If Totodile is UNDER LEVEL 5:
Give Totodile Rare Candies until he reaches lv. 5 and check his summary.

If Totodile is AT LEVEL 5:
Go to the PokéCenter and place him in a box, pull him out again, and check the summary.

Since this spread does not use all 508 EVs, you can't just go get the Effort Ribbon to find out when he's finished. You will need to do a little bit more calculating, but it's not going to be too difficult. Go back to the LC_Stat Calc and this time check the field at the top.

Posted Image
Posted Image


The Red column now indicates the stats for a negative nature. Since Totodile is Jolly, SpA should be 9 or less.

The Green column indicates untrained stats for a neutral nature. HP should be 21 and SpD should be 11. Since you trained only one point into Def, just add one to the number in this column, and you should have 13 Def.

The Yellow column indicates fully trained stats for a neutral nature. Your Atk fits this criterium and you should have 16 Atk.

The Blue indicates the stats for a maxed out stat with a positive nature. Since Totodile was Jolly and you maxed Spe, it fits into this column. You should have 15 Spe.

Your final stats should be:

21 / 16 / 13 / 9 / 11 / 15

And if you're curious what the columns to the right are for, it's for 1st and 2nd stage stat boosts. the + after the number is for a positive nature. So after one Dragon Dance, Tototdile reaches a massive 24 Atk and 22 Spe, which is quite respectable in Little Cup.


If the stats don't match, something was not done correctly, but there are a couple of ways to fix this.

You're going to use this IV Calculator for each method, so go ahead and open up the page or get the downloadable version. (Credit: MetalKid)

Method 1
 
Give Totodile enough Rare Candies to find out his exact EVs.
Note: You need to save at or before lv. 5 so that you can give him enough of Rare Candies to determine his EVs. Simply restart your game without saving after you find out the missing EVs.

Put the spread that you used into the EP column(s) and put the stats of Totodile into each row for each level. If you don't have stats for Lv(s). 1-4, that's fine. Just start at whatever level Totodile is.
Keep giving rare candies and plugging in stats and eventually you will have been given enough information so that it gives you exact IVs for each stat instead of a range.


Method 2
 
Go into a lv. 100 battle to check his overall stats.
Note: You should save at or before lv. 5.

Once you are in a lv. 100 battle, examine Totodile and write down the exact stats and your desired EV spread into the calculator.

Be sure to put 100 into the level column.



Whichever method was used, check the given IVs with the IVs of your pokémon.
Quote:
 
If the IV listed on the calculator is lower than your actual IV, it doesn't have enough.

If this is the case, subtract the IV listed from the actual IV. Multiply this number by 4 and that's how many EVs needed for this stat to finish training.


Quote:
 
If the IV is listed as Impossible, it has too many.

If the total desired EVs are above 100, give the pokémon one stat-reducing Berry of the appropriate stat and the EVs will now drop to 100.
You can begin retraining this stat using the guide above.

If the stat is below 100, simply remove all EVs and begin again.


If our pokémon is dangerously close to leveling up to 6, then we may need to start over again.
That's why it's very important that we clone before we begin, but hopefully any mistakes are minor and can be easily fixed before it reaches lv. 6


Continuing on Your Own:

You have now been given many tools along with some helpful advice on what items you need, where you should train, and how you should train your own Little Cup pokémon. Hopefully this guide has helped you to understand the mechanics of Little Cup EV-training and has aided you enough so that you may continue to train future pokémon on your own.
Edited by eric the espeon, Feb 18 2009, 12:18 PM.
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Playamania
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You should have left the table that showed how many EVs you needed for each stat point depending on base stats.
"We live in an age when pizza gets to your home before the police."

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eric the espeon
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vader was here

That is part of a different guide located here: http://s1.zetaboards.com/The_Little_Cup_Forum/topic/374147/1/
This guide is about the in game problems with fully EV training a Pokemon without it exceeding Lv. 5, the other is about constructing EV spreads and allocating them in the most efficient way.
However it would be conceivable to merge the two guides at some point into a general "EVs in Little Cup" type guide.
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Chris
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Abrasive Dick

So basically, anything can max EVs like we thought they could?
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tennisace0227
 
Glad that's out of the way, how's the grammer?

Cooper
 
I cannot edit titles. I cannot do anything. Mod me.
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Dixie
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Back. Will see in the next week or so how much I can contribute.

i think this is just proving that.
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Jonny Evans - Legend.
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eric the espeon
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vader was here

I have not quite confirmed it for all "Fluctuating" Pokemon, but I am pretty certain of it. Shuppet, the worst case I could find as far as hard EV spreads went, only needed 38 battles to fully train and Fluctuating Pokemon can have a max of 46.

Things that will be added:
List of what LC Pokemon fall into which Base EXP Group
An introduction.
An example of how to use the guide.
Improvements to the sections that have been written.
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TPM
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I've always been skeptical about EVing in LC, but this topic completely changed that. Thanks for posting!
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credits to plus for this amazing banner
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KoA: I had a dream Revenankh was my brother he was the best brother ever but he couldnt bicycle for shit 
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Magik0722

Doesnt pokerus also double experience gained?
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eric the espeon
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vader was here

Not that I know of/Serebii said.
Just double EVs.
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BeUndead

Pokérus only doubles the EV's gained by a Pokémon, it does nothing to the Experience Points gained. Not sure what proof I can offer of this, but I have a Pokémon with Pokérus I caught on my game (not traded), and it DOES NOT say gained "a boosted" when it gains EXP.
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eric the espeon
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vader was here

Does it gain the same amount as other Pokemon in the battle (non traded, no EXP share)?
If yes its 100% confirmed.
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Chris
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Abrasive Dick

Yes.
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tennisace0227
 
Glad that's out of the way, how's the grammer?

Cooper
 
I cannot edit titles. I cannot do anything. Mod me.
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eric the espeon
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vader was here

Updated and improved second post.
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Magik0722

So does this prove you can get any ev spread on traded pokemon?
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